vendetta,

you will find to your cost why BelArgUSA is qualified to make the comments that he has. He did not ask you to remain seated for ten hours, but simply to keep your unbelted time to the minimum in which to remain comfortable.

On my humble boat, it's more complicated. Unless I am entirely confident that it is safe, lifejackets are required to be worn at sea. A sweaty nuisance in a Sydney summer. Less confident still, and it's 'clip on' as well.

BelArgUSA has the small complication that he has one hundred times as many passengers (whom he cannot observe), and that he is going about 550 knots faster than I. All he can see is air - I can see waves. And he has three planes in which he must maintain control - I have just two. Moreover, he has a nattier uniform!

So I guess we are getting off easy, being asked to remain seated if we can help it.

Because sh!t happens. A child stops breathing during the night. A drunk driver takes out a school bus. A rugby player collapses and dies of a heart attack.

I am unsure of what sort of cotton-wool life you expect, but I'll eat my hat if you die - and you are going to die one day (as is everyone reading this), - in an aircraft crash.

BOFH

Vendetta - I too am a nervous passenger. I also suffer from circulation issues and find sitting for too long extremely uncomfortable (who doesn't? ;) ). I need to walk around the cabin regularly, and when possible stand next to/behind my seat to watch movies etc. However, I do this because I really have to, and the moment I'm back in my seat that belt gets locked tight! BelArgUSA said to keep the time to a minimum, not that you shouldn't get up. :) And remember there are excercises you can do in your seat to help improve your circulation. :)

Fear of flying.
 

Hi,

I am flying next week with Emirates and i am scared to death of flying. I don't know why..but it is since ever. It will be my first long haul flight and it will be great to hear some advices from pilots..:)

Nothing about flying makes sense to me..I have a panic disorder so I do have prescripted medicine....but any advice would be great.....

tnx,
lorena

Hi Lorena, welcome to the PPRuNe 'cabin'. We are a fair old mix in here and certainly a number of flight and cabin crew will be along to help, as well as regular passengers such as myself.

You have been brave in admitting your fears and other folks have also posted in this forum. You may find some points to read in the FAQ, which is at the top of the forum page, organised by our Moderator who is Cabin Crew [doffs cap]. Also, the Search function may help you to find other discussion threads from previous months.

I do sympathise about having a phobia. I have one in an (almost) unrelated area and, when it 'appears' in my mind - the fact that I know it to be irrational - is irrelevant, because the fear is still the same. Also, if anyone tells you that you have nothing to fear and that everything will be all right - try not to hit them! It can be very frustrating when people mean well, but just do not understand how powerful these fears can be and that they are very real.

Safe Journey.

I'm not a pilot or cabin crew but can sympathise with your fear. A good friend of mine was also had a fear of flying and he overcame this by, firstly, doing some research on the internet into the physics of flying and what keeps the plane in the air.

Next he took a few short-haul flights to get used to flying and what everyone is doing around him.

Then he proceeded onto long-haul flights.

Whilst he still isn't the best of flyers (he takes travel sickness pills to help him sleep through most of the flight!) he is a lot better than he was.

There are also some fear of flying courses available which involve a classroom session and a flight where everything is talked through and explained.

My main advice for your flight, however, is to ask for somewhere to sit near the cabin crew and then to let them know about your fear of flying. They should be able to explain much of what happens on the flight (procedures, noises, etc) and should take extra good care of you as well!

Best of luck and I'm sure a pilot will be around soon to add their advice!

From memory, the average loss rate for western airlines is around one hull per million take offs and landings. On average between a third and a half of the passengers survive a hull loss. So your chance of being involved in an accident is infinitesimally small, and your chance of surviving one is quite good.

You will break before the wings - ask the passengers on the Qantas A330. So even if you are being thrown around the cabin by turbulence it is very unlikely the air frame will suffer structural damage.

When my son was about three we were on a flight that encountered severe turbulence and he asked why the plane was bouncing around. I told him that, like small boys, a happy plane could not keep still.

I don't think that logic and statistics are very helpful; fear of flying is irrational but still very real. In my experience most people find that understanding more about flight reduces their fears, so on this point I agree with MNBluestater in the helpful post at the top of the page.

But I would like to add one extra tip: I have found that most people actually have specific concerns and if they can express these you can deal with them. Once I met someone who looked out the window, saw nothing but clouds and was worried the crew would be lost. A quick visit to the flight deck (pre 9/11), a look at the maps and an explanation about navigation equipment fixed that. Another was afraid an engine would fail and was reassured that the aircraft could fly for hours on one engine. Finally, people who panic when they see wings bend find it instructing to watch the wing test videos on YouTube where you see a test wing bent almosr 90' and it still doesn't break.

Why didn´t I find this issue before?. I am a fearfull one as well, which can cope with it, and fly. My main concern is weather, probably because I live in a pretty nasty airport in winter with some go rounds in my life.

I had a lightning strike in Venice, so I tend to be quite suspicious when I see cloud in our descend. I normally can´t watch outside, until I see the ground.

I have tried not to see the weather forecasts when I fly, and get a soft reading thing when we get into the coulds to land. I would like to know, if all clouds are the same, if all imply possibility of lightning, or simply if some of them can be as soft as cotton. Imaginery is great tool. I mean, closing your eyes, and thinking in nice enviroments, and of course don´t try to control the plane myself. Don´t hold on the arm seats and let yourself float.

I tend to think, the plane is like a dolphin. It has been design for flying, and turbulences is like going floating on a river. I can´t avoid it 100%, but helps me. I have checked one thing. I am scared days before, fear is less while on board. So I tend to block negative ideas. I have pills sometimes.

I hope it can help. PPrune is just fantastic.....the best forum in the web.

flying Ezyjet to ljubliana
 

Any tips on how to relax??? Flying from stansted and think im gonna need a tranquilizer dart to keep calm.:{ I have flown 4 or 5 times previous, last time we had quite a bit of turbulence though and it has kinda put me off. We were passing by a big storm at the time, granted.
I think the more knowledge I have about planes and what they can cope with the better I will be.:D I expect the bird just to glide not wiggle and jiggle about. How much shaking can one plane take?

Can anyone point me in the right direction to find out what aircraft it will be? :cool:

(frequent passenger and former nervous flyer speaking...)

If you travel to Stansted by road your journey will be more dangerous than your flight to Ljubljana. Air travel is extremely safe.

The plane will most likely be an Airbus 319. A modern aircraft with an excellent safety record. Airliners are built to withstand a great deal of turbulence - and if the weather en route or at your destination is forecast to exceed safe limits, your flight would be cancelled or diverted.

If turbulence upsets you, choose a seat in the centre of the plane (over the wings) - that's where the smoothest ride is. Some people prefer a window seat so they can watch the horizon - that can be reassuring if you are nervous, and also help if you tend to get airsick.

For what it's worth, my flight to and from Ljubljana was an extremely smooth one.

And if you are struggling to relax en route, think about your desintation and remember how lucky you are to be travelling to such a beautiful country :ok:

13Alpha

I live in the Channel Islands and flying around them in the Trislander is very stressing for my wife since she has only been used to the big jets. She has to have 2 tins of the gin and tonic that you can buy in UK supermarkets before she flies but has now started on Bach Rescue remedy which seems to calm her a bit.

She seems v. apprehensive every time she flies and she will have me getting nervous soon. Mind you sometimes I want to climb over the seats to adjust the engines!!!!!

Rest assured, airliners can take more punishment than most pilots will ever see - let alone passengers. Turbulence is uncomfortable and can be quite unpleasant, but is hardly ever dangerous. Us pilots would prefer 'the bird to glide' rather than 'wiggle and jiggle' but remember that we are flying through a dynamic environment. The air is rarely still, and there is usually some turbulence between 'layers' of air, and certainly within convective clouds (the fluffy ones). It's all perfectly normal and routine, and although we'll do our best to avoid the worst bits and give everyone a smooth ride, it's not always possible. Regardless, airliners are built to withstand loads far in excess of anything likely to be encountered in normal service - as this video graphically demonstrates:

YouTube - Boeing 777 Wing Load Test

Easyjet are a first class airline, and whether you're on a 737 or an A319, you'll be a whole lot safer than driving up the M11 . . . Honestly, as an airline pilot there are only two things that frighten me; spiders and the drive to work.

In response to SNS3Guppy's post early on in this thread:

I was a nervous flyer before reading that post. From the first word to the last you give us passengers the absolute confidence in the aircraft. Not only that, but if something does happen to go wrong, we can guarantee that the people up front are absolute professionals.

Thanks for this, it probably took a while to type out but I for one am very grateful you did :ok:

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!
 

Hello all... I have de-lurked because I want to thank the crew (both cabin and flight-deck) for their input on this thread (and elsewhere where the intricacies of flying are explained).

I have always been a "nervous passenger" - for no rational reason, like every nervous passenger - and for me personally, having things explained in depth really helps to rationalise the fear. I don't think I will ever fly without said fear, but knowing more about how the aircraft works and what the various noises mean is a great way for me to keep it in its box.

I have also found the littlest things have made me more comfortable; I used to sit in aisle seats (I'm 6'4'' and it's nice to be able to get up for a wander without hassling other people) but have found a window seat makes me far calmer. I have to fly short-haul about twice a month with work, and occasionally I'll see a sunrise or similar which is so gob-smackingly beautiful I forget to worry about the potential for fiery doom. Flying on my own, I always try to let the cabin crew know (as lightheartedly as possible) that I'm feeling a bit edgy - and I can say that in all the flights I've taken in my life, with a wide variety of carriers, I've never encountered cabin crew who have failed to reassure me. :ok:

As to the question (admittedly from ages ago!) about airlines cutting corners on maintenance in order to reduce costs, I choose to believe that any sane operator will recognise that the reputational damage from a culpable failure of maintenance leading to a fatal accident would FAR outweigh the financial cost of doing the job right. I also reflect on the number of people with whom I share the road who will, for example, think nothing of bunging cheap, rubbish "Ditch-Hunter" tyres on their car to save a few bob. Even under those circumstances, people very rarely come a cropper given the number of journeys they undertake*.

Anyway - what started asan expression of gratitude for the information above has mutated into discursive rambling. Thank you once again, one and all. :)

* I am weird in this regard. Someone up there asked whether you check tyre pressure, coolant, oil and brake fluid levels for every drive. Um. Yes. Yes I do. :bored:

Just wanted to echo what others have said, which is a big "Thank You!" to the pilots and crew for their reassuring and detailed posts.

Having recently seen one too many "Air Crash Investigation" type programmes recently, the thought of getting on a plane now is giving me that feeling of pending doom !

Thanks again for taking the time to listen to and to answer what must seem like some rather daft questions, it really does help people like me !

You can fly with the absolute best (BA, Air France, AA etc etc) or you could fly with the perceived worst in the industry (Yemenia, All those ones on the euro black list etc etc) the point is THEY ALL CAN CRASH!

BA have had some scary situations the last few years, Air France...well they have a catalogue of disasters going back as far as the late 80s and well AA are just unfortunate but I suppose their size does sort of highlight the statistical aspect!

No matter how good the airline if something happens your time is up. Be more afraid of crossing the road or catching swine flu!!! I doubt you will end up being characterised in an episode of Air Crash Investigator just yet!

apaddyinuk

Hi, you're right about the fact that no matter what is done, nothing is without risk and airlines and the pilots can only do their utmost to limit such risk.

The thing is with the ACI series that can put the frighteners on people like me is that when they eventually reveal the cause of the crash, it's often something that seems far too tiny a detail to actually crash a plane.

A case in point is the one I saw recently about the Helios plane where the cabin didn't pressurise as the switch was on manual rather than automatic. A maintenance guy had been checking a report that a rear door wasn't sealing properly so flicked it the switch in the cockpit from automatic to manual pressurisation the previous evening and hadn't flicked it back.

How did something like that get missed in a pre-flight check by the Captain and co-pilot ?

The reality of course is that your chances of being involved in an aircraft accident are incredibly small. Even then the chances of that accident being fatal are significantly smaller. Of course the two places where this is not true are the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Discovery channel!

Where accidents do occur they are very rarely the result of one isolated event. They are usually a result of a whole chain of failures that conspire to cause an event, that any one alternate action might have prevented.

I don't want to make any aditional criticism of the accident in the example you gave, however there were many opportunites for a resolution that for one reason or another simply didn't happen. There are two pilots who check the set up of the instruments and switches prior to every flight. If one misses something, then the back up is that the other pilot will pick up the omission. If that fails then the warning system might alert the crew at some point. If that fails then other resultant events as a consequence, might alert the crew. It is only in the very unusual case of multiple failures to detect and correct, do the markers line up for an incident.

If you will, compare it to an accumulator bet on a horse race. You might win one or two races, but the chances simply become less and less, the more events are required.

I think turbulence is pretty well top of my list of things to worry about when flying. So what I do is this. I recall (how could I forget?) the worst turbulence I've ever been in, which was on a flight from Barcelona to London on a Whisperjet in July a few years ago. Thunderstorms over the Pyrenees, seat belt lights on, cabin crew to seats, and that was only the beginning...

That episode was worth a score of 10, and anything I've experienced since I've marked against that score. I've had an 8 and a couple of sevens, but nothing remotely approaching the Spanish affair - even an hour-long bumpy ride over Afghanistan on the way back from India didn't even come close in terms of intensity.

So whenever we start to bump, even just a bit, I start making a mental score. Most times I never even get to 5, and that's quite bumpy enough!

Another thing I've tried is when I'm on a fast-moving train. Going to the toilet and imagining you're on a plane, and thinking how scared you'd be if the plane was moving around like that, is quite a revelation. True, trains usually only move from side to side rather than up and down as well, but it's not a dissimlar experience.

My main concern is crossing the ITCZ in March. The more I read about the area, the more scared I get. Flying at night makes me quite uneasy. I will be crossing the same area where AF447 went down. I have the feeling that a climatic monster is hidden out there. I know about the weather radars, but the french plane disaster makes me think why, why, why....I have tried not think about it, as If it hadn´t occured. But fours before my flight my mind is usually full of dark images.

I have booked first class, Madrid-Rio de Janeiro, just to feel more relaxed and during the day, but I am really scared about flying back at night on the 5th april from GRU. I know probably Iberia planes cross the area more than anyone else, and that they know how to handle with the situation, but however I am not happy about it. I have talked to a flight attendant who crosses the area regularly and she keeps me telling that she never had encountered a strong turbulence. So it´s relieving. I can cope well with flying now, but I don´t have information enough about this area, and I am getting quite obsessed with it.

I think any turbulence in the area, or lightening around will make think about AF. I will try to sleep, some pills as well before getting into the ITCZ.

Although I spent many years as cabin crew and come from an aviation family I can completely understand peoples phobia. I've been through lots of turbulence, many technical issues and almost had a full evacuation at one point. However knowing a little about aerodynamics, how a plane functions in normal and non normal situations is what gave me the confidence that I was not going to end up as a charcter in air crash investigations!

The reason I understand phobia is that I experienced it first hand and it completely took me unaware. Put me in a 747 with an engine failiure and I would be right as rain - I'd know exactly what the pilots would be doing and that the aircraft was not going to fall from the sky.

However when my brother was doing his training to become a commercial pilot he offered to take me for a spin in a cessna - ( a very small single engined light aircraft). Whether it was the fact it was my 'baby' brother at the controls or that you could feel every bump, twang and thump I don't know but I can remember looking over the cowling wishing I was firmly back on terra firma. As we levelled out he casualy remarked that the engine was running a little roughly, knitted his brows he started talking through what might be the problem. I knew logically that even if we lost the engine, he'd get the nose down, keep the air speed up, wouldn't stall the thing and that there were loads of large, even fields below us...however I was more than a little anxious. As things transpired everything was fine, we landed back at the little airfiled and I jumped out making a mental note never to fly on anything with less than 150 seats ever again!

I think what saved me from completely hyperventilating in that little cessna was knowing something about what makes a plane stay in the air and a little about the instrumentation. With heavy jets things are hugely more complex, but knowing for example that there is a TCAS system that prevents mid air collisions- that even if its a really bad day in the office and a 747 looses all its engines the plane will still fly and is controlable.

My advice is to step away from air crash investigation and just do a little research! Cabin crew are always good to talk to if you are nervous. I've sat and chatted to many, many nervous flyers and on some occasions when we've been going through turbulence have strapped myself in next to them for a bit of moral support! :)

That's good advise, Bunkrest, to stay away from the ACI type programmes. The one I saw on the Helios plane really sent me over the edge I can tell you !

It's great to hear that you take your passengers' concerns so seriously, it may sound silly but it would never occur to me to tell one of the cabin crew that I can be a nervous flyer - although I've managed a flight from Heathrow to Delhi and back on my own before, so I don't let it floor me totally !

In my experience, talking to the cabin crew usually helps. If they can, they'll offer you a good seat - occasionally they'll even offer you an upgrade if there's space. They'll generally come and talk to you during the flight and check you're alright. It helps to know there's someone linked to the aircraft crew who knows your problem!

Please see my comments in the new link for this FAQ regarding sensationalist, incorrect reporting of aviation incidents in even the quality press. They intend to grab headlines and readership, at the cost of inaccuracy, un-evidenced speculation and fueling the fears of the enormous numbers of people who have some level of fear about flying. HH

I've looked up this old thread to place a link to a TV programme listed on a Tube that You might know.

This prog is not technical and for some in this forum, basic and frustratingly lacking in detail! BUT the language used to explain is the kind that the non-technical person will readily understand. It shows what happens on a 'D' check for a 747-400. I Think it will be helpful to the concerned passenger to see how rigorous a check this is and to know that every aircraft - of all types - goes through a sequence of A/B/C/D checks in their working life. Obviously, the example here is a BA machine and shows the best of what can be done.

It lasts an hour but I think it will be interesting and there was one fact I learnt that I did not know before! So that means my anorak is in good condition. :8

If that does not work, go to the Tube of You and search for:
British Airways Boeing 747-400 in D-Check

Resurrecting this a little bit, to add my name to the "nervous flyer" list. I'm better than I was, because I did something that, even a good few months after the fact, I still think is crazy.

I made a film about light aircraft and GA flying. I thought that if I knew more about flying, and met people who do it purely for fun, I wouldn't be as nervous on a large passenger aircraft.

It worked. I still don't like turbulence (makes me feel sick, and do feel a little bit out of control) and I'm always nervous before a flight, but I'm definitely better than I was :)

To the nervous pax on here:

I do not want to worry you, as, as an example, I had 8 driving lessons before being let loose in a car. It takes c. 1500 hours to get an ATPL!!!

So, qwe are trained pro's, fear not.

But if you're still nervous, knowing you've done everything you can, can help you- Here's some things to do to help you.

1. The majority of aircraft 'incidents' take place not in the sky, but on the ground! Mostly smoke and fire related.
2. Do not, for one minute, underestimate, the effect of smoke and fire in these situations. Withing seconds, your eyelids will seal due to the plastic fumes and within a few more, you'll asphixiate.
3. Re above- 2 key things you can do. a) count precisely the seat backs fore and aft towards the emercency exits. Remember these, because if you have an incident, panic will ensue and it'll be as dark as a dark night on the dark side of the moon! b) This sounds silly, but it's true. Carry a large clear plastic bac (ziplock perfect). If smoke and fire happen, shove it over your head. it'll give you about a minute of O2 and it will prevent the plastic in the fumes sealing your eyelids up.
4. LISTEN TO THE CABIN CREW. They are trained professionals, not glorified waiters and they will do their job to the bitter end. I know that.
5. If you don't believe me re above, google Airtours incident Manchester. 90 seconds to destroy a perfectly good BAC 111.

It was a 737-200 and given the explosive disintegration of the engine combustion chamber, "perfectly good" isn't a particularly apt desciption of it!

It isn't a smoke hood, nor is it really a good idea. It doesn't contain any more Oxygen than the ambient air does when you put it over your head. It will (assuming any kind of seal actually exists) quickly start to suffocate you, and bcome hot and dirty. Smoke rises, and that includes into inverted plastic bags. Particulates are likely to be attracted to plastic bags, thereby quickly disorientating the hapless wearer. Best advice would be to cover your nose and mouth with a cloth or handkerchief and get down low below the smoke, which will obscure visibility from the roofline downwards. That is why escape lighting is placed on the floor.

Perhaps you should listen to the cabin crew a bit more! ;)

VST your advice is as helpful as o'leary's advice about seat belts.

Dangerous advice I feel.

Yeah, those ziplock bags usually have messages stating NOT to put them over your head, because they can suffocate you, pretty quickly. := :ugh:

Now, if someone can tell me how to make that "sinking" feeling just after take off feel less weird, I'd appreciate it! (I know it's my brain/inner ear/eyes having a disagreement, but it feels freaky!)

True but you don't need to have an ATPL to be a co-pilot on an airliner! Statistically those who listen to the pre-departure briefs are more likely to survive an accident. So don't try and look supercool and read the paper, pay attention each and every time so that in the event of an emergency your reponses are automatic.

That weird feeling may in fact be the flaps being retracted in which case it will feel like a "sinking" feeling. Next time if you are near a window have a look outside and see if it coincides with the flaps (at the back of the wing) retracting into the wing.