As an ex military helicopter pilot, it has confirmed my belief that most long haul pilots are over paid prima donnas!

Off duty crew aren't entitled to anything that their contract does not reflect.
Given that contracts are a result of a negotiation it is simply the contract in action.

Put yourself back in the interview for the role as pilot. If a question on this scenario was asked, what would you say you would do?

How about just having a non standoff attitude, looking after your employer and your livelihood and just grabbing any seat, putting the people who pay your wages first (the customer).

Pathetic!

Or maybe the crew positioned an empty aircraft and were returning directly.

The pax in J seats hadn't paid for J either.and made a fuss over nothing also!!

Not handled well by anyone.
​

​

So am I reading that if a passenger pays for a first-class seat or a business-class seat (this is speaking generally and not about this particular incident) and is asked to move to a lower class because pilots need to be transported for their duty and it's in their contract to be carried in first or business (as the case may be) the passenger is obliged to do so because the pilot's contract with his/her airline employer stipulates such a class of travel in the circumstances? Hasn't the passenger also entered into a contract with the airline to fly business or first (whichever he/she booked)?

Well, consider yourself in a culture where respect for the elders and 'process' is still very high, having been built in from birth. Then consider yourself a senior Captain with many years on the line, long used to having everyone below respect you and (crucially in this case) stick to the process.

To ask that Captain and crew to suddenly change a life time of culture and years of company arrangements? In the West we might now agree a compromise but, 40 years ago, would we have done so? Was the Captain of the ship still master of all he surveyed?

As I said before, Thai Airways will (probably) learn from this but don't expect overnight changes.

Any company worth its salt will block off crew seats well in advance, providing they have notice, crew movements are often scheduled and can be easily planned for without upsetting anyone.

These sort of remarks come from the people who, as a pax on a ship, will scratch each others eyes out to get a seat at the captains table but somehow think it is wrong to see a captain of an airliner sitting in First class, which is actually good PR, it shows the company looks after its crew, which is good news for everyone. To those of you who have a problem with crew positioning in First class, don't go near any Japanese airline, especially JAL.

Yes, the one under which the passengers paid to get a seat.

I think you need to read the print of the seat contract your actually purchasing when you buy a ticket.

Well you would think so, but today all airlines are so keen on squeezing every last person onto the plane (and dollar out of them) they tend to routinely overbook and leave it to the gate agent to sort out. I have had my (blocked) seat given away without anyone asking (several times) and at the last minute, to accommodate me, they had to offload the passenger who was sitting in the seat. If the gate agent asked I tended to agree to give up my seat and go and sit on the flt deck if it wasn't a long flight but it was always my decision.

The person I feel sorry for is the poor gate agent who is going to upset someone whatever they do - and they wont get any support from management over the decision made.

I think you should stop trying to use semantics to avoid the simple fact that there's paying passengers who are entitled to a seat on that aircraft.

The pasengers paid top get on that flight at that time and the deadheads did not. Its pretty simple to understand unless you believe the airline exists for the benefit of pilots.

except no one paid for J seats on that flight so there was no entitlement

I just paid for first class travel with Singapore. Is there a real chance that I might not get it ?
If so I would rather reschedule. Are certain airlines known for this kind of problem.

SIA are an excellent airline, very passenger orientated and no chance you would be asked to move or displaced by positioning crew. Positioning crew travel on Economy tickets that are upgradable to First class IF SEATS ARE AVAILABLE. If you have already paid for a First class ticket your seat is confirmed.

Yet more semantics which proves my previous point - an expectation that fee paying passengers are only there if there are no pilots who want the seat.

They paid for seats so their contract should come ahead of those who don't pay. Passengers first, deadheaders last.

Oh dear.

Nobody was offloaded.

Nobody flew in a seat that was inferior to the one they had paid for.

What part of that are you having trouble understanding ?