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Dog dies in overhead locker on UA
The airline that just keeps giving...sensational headlines to the media.
United Airlines has accepted "full responsibility" for a dog's in-flight death after a flight attendant put the pet in the overhead locker. "This was a tragic accident that should never have happened," the airline said. The French bulldog died during a flight from Houston to New York on Monday. Witnesses said the flight attendant had asked one of the passengers to put her airline-approved pet carrier in the locker. The attendant later said she did not know the dog was in the bag. More details from the BBC |
Originally Posted by Carbon Bootprint
(Post 10082704)
The airline that just keeps giving...sensational headlines to the media.
An eyewitness account posted on social media (where else?) contradicts the flight attendant's statement that she wasn't aware of the contents, and alleges the dog's owner pushed back but eventually complied with the FA's order. More details from the BBC |
Originally Posted by Carbon Bootprint
(Post 10082704)
The airline that just keeps giving...sensational headlines to the media.
I've never seen that anywhere myself..... |
The USA is a weird place that allows all sorts of animals on board an aircraft as 'emotional' support pets. This means you could be seated in the same row as a passenger with a pot bellied pig or a peacock.
I jest not. United Airlines said Thursday it has updated its policy regarding emotional support animals, and American Airlines said it is reviewing its policy. United's move follows a similar step by Delta as well as a United passenger’s effort last week to board a Newark departure along with an emotional support peacock. United denied boarding to the bird. American is "reviewing our requirements with the goal of protecting our team members and our customers who have a real need for a trained service or support animal," said spokeswoman Shannon Gibson. "Unfortunately, untrained animals can lead to safety issues for our team, our passengers and working dogs onboard our aircraft," she said. "We will continue to support the rights of customers, from veterans to people with disabilities, with legitimate needs.” Starting March 1, United will require that passengers provide a health and vaccination form signed by the animal’s veterinarian as well as confirmation that “the animal has been trained to behave properly in a public setting and acknowledge responsibility for the animal’s behavior.”’ |
Hey, did anyone see this dog ALIVE?
Anyone? Anyone? |
I don’t believe this was an emotional support animal (like the famous UA peacock), just a small pet dog. UA and most US carriers normally allow small dogs and cats (and perhaps other critters) in the cabin on domestic flights long as they’re in an approved carrier that fits underneath the seat.
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This past year or so, every single flight I've been on in the US has had at least 4-8 dogs and cats aboard. Very few of which appear to be real "service" animals. Mostly those yappy little dogs we all hate.
On the other hand, United seems to go out of their way to avoid any sort of customer service. |
I don’t believe this was an emotional support animal (like the famous UA peacock), just a small pet dog I sensed it was so big that it completely filled a bag that was too big to fit under a seat, hence it took up aisle space until it was ordered into the overhead. What is lacking for my judgement, was how evident was it that the case contained a dog?. Was the head at least visible? Was it drugged? Was it identified in a manifest? Time for published rules for live animals to be fully identified and vetted before carriage ... not after boarding. |
I understand it was a small bulldog.
Frankly you have to question the logic of any airline or airport allowing pets other than guide dogs in the cabin. This from the Washington Post last June. When Marlin Jackson arrived at his row on a Delta flight from Atlanta to San Diego in June, the middle seat was already occupied by a man with a sizable dog on his lap. Jackson squeezed by them to his window seat, and the Labrador mix lunged at his face. The attack lasted about 30 seconds, according to Jackson’s attorney, and left him with facial wounds that required 28 stitches and scars that are still visible today. The mauling, which Delta said was inflicted by a canine identified as an “emotional support” animal, was among the thousands of incidents that just pushed the nation’s largest airline to tighten rules for passengers flying with service or comfort animals. In announcing the changes Friday, Delta said it flew 250,000 animals in those categories last year, up 150 percent from 2015, while “incidents” such as biting or defecating had nearly doubled since 2016. Delta emphasized safety concerns in detailing the increased documentation owners that will be required to provide about their animals. But its action also was spurred by a widespread perception among airlines and disability rights advocates that some fliers are fraudulently taking advantage of federal law to bring untrained pets of myriad species into crowded cabins. In the story below a woman took a large pot bellied pig on board which caused mayhem by running wild in the cabin and defacating. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...7388683882.jpg When US Airways passenger Robert Phelps first saw the woman coming down the aisle of the plane, he thought she had a "really big dog" or a stuffed animal thrown over her shoulder. As she got closer, there was no denying that the woman was carrying a big brown pig, perhaps between 70 and 80 pounds, Phelps said. "Everybody was trying to surmise what it could be, because no one thought it was a pig," he said. "Other than a Fellini movie, where would you see a person with a pig?" The passenger was allowed to bring the pig on board as an "emotional support animal" under Department of Transportation guidelines, a US Airways spokeswoman said. Apparently, it was not meant to be. Before the plane took off, the passenger and her pig were kicked for being "disruptive," spokeswoman Laura Masvidal said. How disruptive? Fellow passengers told the Hartford Courant that the big brown pig stank up the cabin of the tiny D.C.-bound aircraft and defecated in the aisle. Phelps watched in amusement and horror as the pig began "dropping things" in the aisle while his owner stowed her belongings. When she tied him to the armrest and tried to clean up after him, he began to howl. "She was talking to it like a person, saying it was being a jerk," he said. "I have no problems with babies, but this pig was letting out a howl." A flight attendant asked her to move to the front of the plane, and eventually she left, he said. He took a photo of her as she walked past him. "I understand dogs and cats on planes. They come in crates, but this was way too big, and it had no container," he said. "It looked heavy. It was not a tiny, cute little pig." Why was the animal allowed on the plane to begin with? People have been bringing "emotional support animals" on planes in increasing numbers in recent years, as well as to restaurants, museums and stores. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...7388524894.jpg |
If it ever has, this cries out for Federal legislation prohibiting any animal other than guide dogs or dog or cat in an approved under seat container. Period!
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There are few if any countries outside the USA that allow pets in airport terminals let alone in the passenger cabin Jack.
How do they clear through security? If people want to transport animals they can be caged and go in the hold. |
Originally Posted by Dee Vee
(Post 10082740)
is it normal to allow dogs in a cage to be in UA's the passenger deck?
I've never seen that anywhere myself..... https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con.../in_cabin.aspx |
It's really very simple: The law requires that "service animals" be allowed, but does not define such. So no airline wants to face the lawsuit when they ban some nervous nellie's creature.
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It appears many people are exploiting the situation.I cannot see what service a duck or a pig can perform or indeed tiny lap dog.
Service dogs, which are trained to perform tasks for a person with a disability, were first used by people with vision and hearing impairments. They are now also used by those who use wheelchairs or have other impairment in mobility, people who are prone to seizures or need to be alerted to medical conditions, like low blood sugar, and people with autism or mental illness. The American Humane Association, which promotes the welfare and safety of animals, says there are 20,000 service dogs working in the U.S. Supporters of the new laws compare those misbehaving dog owners to people who acquire handicap signs so they can park in spaces intended for disabled people. The laws make it a misdemeanor to represent an untrained dog as a service animal, and usually come with fines of no more than $500 for an incident. But because there is no certification or official national registry of legitimate service dogs, there is no way to verify whether a dog has undergone rigorous training to become a service animal. That makes it hard to enforce the laws, said David Favre, a law professor at Michigan State University College of Law and editor of its Animal Legal and Historical Center website, which follows public policy issues related to animals. He said he’s not aware of anyone who has been prosecuted anywhere for violating them. |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 10082789)
There are few if any countries outside the USA that allow pets in airport terminals let alone in the passenger cabin Jack.
How do they clear through security? If people want to transport animals they can be caged and go in the hold. |
But did the dog die as a result of being in the overhead locker?
Snub nosed breeds of dog are more likely to die when in aircraft (in the hold or cabin), than normal breeds of dog. They're bred to effectively have a slight breathing difficulty.......which turns in to suffocation as the cabin pressure climbs. So this dog would have most likely died regardless of whether it sat in the overhead locker or on the captains knee munching on the remnants of the flight deck cheeseboard. |
Originally Posted by GingerFI
(Post 10082854)
But did the dog die as a result of being in the overhead locker?
Snub nosed breeds of dog are more likely to die when in aircraft (in the hold or cabin), than normal breeds of dog. They're bred to effectively have a slight breathing difficulty.......which turns in to suffocation as the cabin pressure climbs. So this dog would have most likely died regardless of whether it sat in the overhead locker or on the captains knee munching on the remnants of the flight deck cheeseboard. |
+1 above.
Sounds like it was on its way out anyway. Why would it die just because it was put in an overhead locker? They’re certainly not airtight. If it can’t survive being in it’s dog carrier in a locker, it was never going to survive the flight regardless. Frenchies are reknowned for having difficulties breathing. They can’t even breed naturally. |
Animals.
Maybe wrong, but I don't seem to see anything on the thread about: ".......passenger safety is our main concern." With such large animals on board, what would happen "In the unlikely event........" THEN see the ambulance chasers come out of the wood!:rolleyes: Just a thought.
Good ole U.S., Land of the Weirdos.:) |
What puzzles me is how the US airlines balance the right for someone to bring a pig or bird onboard against the responsibility for rest of the passengers. When livestock takes a dump the smell will permeate the cabin.
The FAA really need to tighten their procedures on this. With Ryanair the pooch and container would be non standard carry on baggage.If it won't go in the overhead locker it goes in the hold. |
Dog dies in overhead locker on United Airlines plane - BBC News
Whatever anyone here thinks about the rights and wrongs, it would appear this was a puppy in an approved container being transported according to the regulations of the carrier. The FA gave incorrect instructions to the passenger to place the carrier in the overhead locker. The passenger complied after protesting. The animal subsequently died in the locker. The airline has accepted full responsibility and stated the FA was in the wrong. That seems pretty much done and dusted to me. Whether American airlines should continue to emulate Noah's Ark is another subject.. |
Originally Posted by MajorLemond
(Post 10082959)
+1 above.
...They’re certainly not airtight... |
:ok::D:D:D:D:D:D
Originally Posted by jack11111
(Post 10082748)
Hey, did anyone see this dog ALIVE?
Anyone? Anyone? |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 10082978)
What puzzles me is how the US airlines balance the right for someone to bring a pig or bird onboard against the responsibility for rest of the passengers. When livestock takes a dump the smell will permeate the cabin.
The FAA really need to tighten their procedures on this. With Ryanair the pooch and container would be non standard carry on baggage.If it won't go in the overhead locker it goes in the hold. I agree animals in the cabin are a pain in the back side... but lets not start using Ryanair as the company to set standards..... They've done enough for aviation. |
Jay Sata, this animal was a small French Bulldog being transported within the terms and conditions of the airline.
Against UA's record of its FAs attitudes towards passengers, it is hardly surprising that the passenger felt that she had to comply with the FA's wholly unreasonable instructions. If not, she might well thought that she could have been forcibly off-loaded by the security thugs employed at US airports. A much loved family pet died during 3 1/2 hours of being incarcerated in a dark, noisy space without the opportunity for any comfort from the owner, or even to have some water. Just take a moment to think of the terror which the poor little creature suffered, thanks to that flight attendant. The inflight PA chat from the flight deck must be amusing. |
There is NOTHING amusing about this wholly avoidable tragedy. I hope that the FA is prosecuted for such a clear act of animal cruelty. |
I take your point BEgle but elsewhere in the world we either leave our pets at home or arrange suitable kennels. Suggest you start another one about your perception of the rights and wrongs of people who take a different view to yours? |
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FYI
most EU (and USA) carriers allow a small dog (not talking about a service or emotional support dog) to be carried on board as hand luggage into the cabin in an approved pet carrier/holdall and it must go under your seat in front of you I have seen dogs on KLM LH AZ Condor aerolloyd IB Transavia and Delta you can even take one out of LHR on LH and KLM (but you cannot bring a pet dog back into the UK so easily - check pet passport regs etc before you start booking) you can also take dogs in the cabin to the Scilly Isles from NQY and LEQ on the skybus twin otter where they have a dog box put in place of a row of two seats - so you can sit opposite them see here this Condor/Thomas Cook video of taking a chihuahua on board starts almost after Capt does his welcome - Our EU neighbours all love to take their little dogs and furbabies on holiday to the Med and the making of the video see from 2m 15s Condor website link https://www.condor.com/eu/flight-pre...s-in-cabin.jsp Coco and missy at NQY waiting to board our twin otter #delayed not impressed so far lol |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 10083204)
I think you are missing the point.
The flight attendant correctly assessed the space under the seat could not safely accommodate the container with dog. As with all carry on luggage if it does not fit under the seat it goes in the overhead locker. In this case it should have gone in the hold where (in the rest of the world )animals are normally transported. The chief cabin steward should have conferred with the captain prior to pushback. The only exception in the USA for animals in the cabin is for those who perform a service. I doubt this miniature bulldog had the mentality or temperament to be a guide dog. However it appears there are plently of people who falsely claim their pets are service animals and this is the outcome. and FYI - you CAN take small dogs on board in the cabin certainly in the EU and the USA on many airlines (but not on most UK airlines though) - it's nothing new - even a pal took his chihuahua transatlantic last year from FCO to LAX va MXP and JFK on AZ and Delta there and back and years ago my pal took his yorkie from IBZ to JFK via PMI and MAD there and back on IB and Spantax you cannot take the dog out of its carrier whilst inflight for the FA to put this dog/puppy in the OH locker beggars belief - if however the pet carrier was too big to go under the seat (although united say it was an approved sized carrier) then the passenger should have been dealt with in another way - moved seats for more room or rebooked to a less full flight - something like that - the check in and gate staff would have known about the dog - there is enough info out there for pax wanting to take a small dog on board and FA's should be used to it - it's not uncommon in the EU or the States The FA here seems to have fu**ed up big style and united have accepted the blame - no consolation for the poor girl who lost her dog :( |
Considerably more than the dog was worth perhaps? |
Originally Posted by Thud105
(Post 10083247)
That's a fair point rog747. I guess that in a world where people are allowed to bring pigs on an airplane my cynicism generator sometimes gets overworked.
Clareprop, if she really loved it that much, would she have let it be stuffed in an overhead locker? Hardcore animal lovers say "it was like a child to me" Would you let your child be stuffed into an airless overhead locker? There is a disconnect here. Here's what I will say - UA will undoubtedly pay out a lot more than the commercial worth of that dog. And FWIW - I think dogs are great. - we all know what happens nowadays when you try and be reasonable let alone remonstrate with some cabin crew - it all gets way out of hand too quick - the FSM should have been called etc etc etc to verify the ''issue'' the FA was having and sorted it - i cannot get in my head what was going on with the FA remember this was not a 'jumped up weirdo' so-called service animal but an allowable pet on board (twas a puppy not a parrot peacock or a pot belly pig but a normal little puppy) |
Totally agree with every point you make Rog - but still can't help but think that I'd rather have got off (always an option) than allow the dog to be stuffed into an airless overhead locker, where it might - and indeed did - die. In fact, calling the FA's bluff and saying "in that case I'll get off" would've got the CSM and Captain's attention, as the aircraft wouldn't have been able to pushback until the passenger's hold luggage was off-loaded.
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Originally Posted by Thud105
(Post 10083273)
Totally agree with every point you make Rog - but still can't help but think that I'd rather have got off (always an option) than allow the dog to be stuffed into an airless overhead locker, where it might - and indeed did - die. In fact, calling the FA's bluff and saying "in that case I'll get off" would've got the CSM and Captain's attention, as the aircraft wouldn't have been able to pushback until the passenger's hold luggage was off-loaded.
did you see the Condor safety video i posted - perhaps pass that on to the said FA and UAL? |
I've read that the passenger was travelling with a child and a baby, as well as the dog. Her journey would have been pretty stressful under the best of conditions. Deplaning would not have been an attractive prospect, especially as she could expect to be asked to put the dog in the locker in any alternative flight with the same airline.
I think she was not well-placed to sustain an argument with the FA. Anyone who's flown with a small child and a baby will know how stressful and preoccupying it is. However, I'm also curious to know how airlines deal with dogs being allowed to travel on flights with allergic humans? I'm extremely allergic to dogs, not quite epipen level, but enough to swell up and alarm people. I've been on flights where snacks were withheld because there was a passenger with nut allergy on board. What about a passenger with dog allergy? |
but still can't help but think that I'd rather have got off |
A friend has traveled trans-Atlantic a couple of times with her pet Chihuahua in an approved bag. Although it did get out on the second occasion during the night and she and the CC had to search the cabin whilst poor folks were sleeping.
But clearly anything bigger than a cat should go in the hold. In this case i would also put some blame on the owner. Bulldogs dont have the best respiration at the best of times, and unless it was young was probably too big for a cabin pet bag. She should have had some common sense to refuse to put it in the overhead, or to come on the plane in the first place with that situation. |
Astonishingly, hoss123 wrote:
In this case i would also put some blame on the owner. |
Originally Posted by hoss183
(Post 10083315)
A friend has traveled trans-Atlantic a couple of times with her pet Chihuahua in an approved bag. Although it did get out on the second occasion during the night and she and the CC had to search the cabin whilst poor folks were sleeping.
But clearly anything bigger than a cat should go in the hold. In this case i would also put some blame on the owner. Bulldogs dont have the best respiration at the best of times, and unless it was young was probably too big for a cabin pet bag. She should have had some common sense to refuse to put it in the overhead, or to come on the plane in the first place with that situation. and PaxBritannica no way do you ever put pet dogs in the OH lockers on that flight or any other - no idea why you make such a surmise that if she took another flight she would expect the same - they have to go under your seat and yes agree any dog much bigger than a small JRT yorkie or a chihuahua is too much to go in a bag in the cabin - so only tiny dogs yes- and it's not uncommon in EU or the states for small dogs in the cabin as I have shown and as for allergies - oh come on - what do you do in a train pub or a cafe or at a pals - tell the folks with dogs to leave? - what nonsense so do you cross the road each time if you see a dog coming? that's taking it all abit far like the onboard bloody peacock - am very sorry to learn that you have such an extreme allergy of dogs but if you travel on public transport or go out socially then frankly the risk assessment is for you to address surely? the onus is not on others |
I don't condone the placing of the dog in the overhead locker.
However an aircraft is a confined area where food is served. I do not want to have to eat a meal next to a passenger who has an animal that has defacated under the footwell in the next seat or behind me. There appears to be issues with snub nosed dogs according to Air France rules. TRANSPORTING YOUR ANIMAL BY FREIGHT In certain cases, your pet cannot travel with you in the cabin or in the hold. It must be transported by freight if: the animal and its container weigh more than 75 kg / 165 lb, it is traveling to a country that authorizes animal transport only by freight. Snub-nosed dogs and cats, such as pugs, bulldogs, boxers, Shih Tzus and Persian or Burmese cats, are permitted for transport by freight on flights provided by Air France. Frankly I would be worried about any animal in the cabin that weighed in at 75kg with container. However back to the issue of the snub nosed animal dying on this flight. Lufthansa also have this rule. Information about travelling with snub-nosed dogs and cats Dogs and cats belonging to snub-nosed breeds have anatomically restricted airways with the accompanying difficulty in breathing. The stress caused by transportation and/or high temperatures at the departure, transfer and destination airports can cause circulatory issues that may result in breathing problems. Your pet could suffer serious health problems or even die during the journey. Avianca has this rule. Brachiocephalic Breeds. Some breeds of dogs and cats have a series of anatomical idiosyncrasies that make it difficult for them to breathe properly; the condition is called Brachiocephalic Respiratory Syndrome. These pets have a flat nose and tend to present respiratory problems, making them susceptible to suffering hot flashes and breathing disorders when exposed to extreme temperature changes or stressful situations. Therefore, in order to protect these pets, THE CARRIER prohibits the carriage of the following breeds of dogs and cats or of breeds resulting from crossing them (that is to say, one of the pet’s parents belongs to one of the breeds below): |
The lack of empathy for a dead familiy pet on this thread is shocking and disturbing. No wonder the dog died if this is the prevailing attitude to pets on aircraft among those who work in the industry. Will be posting a link to this thread on as many social media and news sites as I can in order that the general public can see what an animal hating bunch the airline industry seems to be.
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