Moving from allocated seats
 

When you are on an aircraft and you want to move to a different seat either before takeoff or during the flight, is there any legal requirement for a member of the cabin crew to make a note of the change anywhere so that in the event of an accident or incident, there will be a correct list of who was in which seat?
:ok:

Dont think so

Thats why you get a lifejacket so they get all the bodies...

No. they only want you in your correct seat for departure. They need to count heads and wait to see if a late pax arrives and there is a seat number conflict.

It's always courteous to ask crew first if you wish to move around the cabin, particularly when on the ground..... for various reasons.

The allocated seating in case of an accident theory is a myth. Remember, if an accident is particularly bad, then your row 21 may well become row 32 if you catch my drift.

Remember also that some airlines have/did have free seating and no recording of who sits where happens at those carriers.

Well, don't try to upgrade yourself by doing so. That is frowned upon.

Ask the crew.
Yesterday on my flight the cabin crew actually came by and offered pax the option to move to empty rows as the airplane was really only half full.
You just couldn't move to 'upgrade' rows like extra legroom as that wouldn't be fair towards the pax that already paid for it.

Take off and landing requires a weight and balance calculation based on the occupied seats shown on the seating plan. Remember that crash in Wales (?) where an aircraft - Avro Tudor ? - more or less full of football supporters were told that the aircraft was about to land, so they all got up and walked to the back to be first off - the aircraft crashed due the inability to overcome the tail heavy moment as a result.

Often cabin crew will invite pax. to move to empty seats if they wish, but then they have to return to the originally allocated seats for landing. No problem.

OK, I don't know how Southwest, who have free seating, sort out the weight and balance calculation ? Maybe Bill Gates has created an App. I know we were messing about with a nose wheel sensor, which we compared with the loadsheet, many years ago, but have no idea if this is an industry standard now?

As co-pilot I once told ATC upon start up the number of SOB - Souls On Board, as was required. The Captain corrected me, adding one more. I questioned this, having copied the correct number from the loadsheet after he had signed it. Always add one more, he said, then they go on looking, and .... it might be you !

Not into a higher cabin class and increasingly not into more desirable seats such as front or exit row. Forward seats are sometimes sold at a premium so its worth checking when booking if moving from 7C into 3C would involve a cost.

Often the premium seats are distinctly marked as such with headrest covers or different trim and the cabin crew will make an announcement offering upgraded seats available for purchase.

A shift across the aisle into an empty row is generally okay however, sometimes seats are allocated for crew rest so it never hurts to check.

Once on a Carpatair S2000 pre-departure the aircraft was out of trim, either the cabin crew had info that I was an ID00 passenger or they recognised me from being in their offices previously, and I was asked if I would mind moving seat, I gave the cabin crew a cheeky smile whilst I pointed at a business class seat, no problem at all :)

Some long haul aircraft do not have bunk rest for flight and cabin crew. So what appears to be an empty seat may well be an allocated crew rest seat. If you move there after takeoff you may be embarrassed to find a crew member asking you to move out of it at some stage during the flight.

In my case, I was asked to move from my allocated window seat on one side to an aisle seat on the other side for crew rest purposes! The manner in which this was done (an American carrier) was not very friendly. After further discussion with the Cabin Manager we came to an agreement.

Did they beat the cr@p out of you? :)

Ryanair have a policy of deliberately splitting up passengers who book flights together, unless one is prepared to pay a fee for specific seats. My family have travelled several times with this unfortunate carrier in the last few weeks.

What tends to happen is that there is some 'seat swapping', and not just a row or adjacent seat, but passengers moving from one part of the plane to another. Groups booked together want to sit together.

On arrival, this causes delay as these displaced passengers are likely separated from their cabin baggage, and trying to go against the flow of leaving passengers.

It struck me, observing the melee, that in an evacuation procedure, it would only take a tiny minority of these many displaced passengers to go for their hand baggage to seriously compromise the chances of getting out. There is good probability that some passengers will always ignore the instructions and try and take hand baggage in an evacuation. Perhaps Ryanair's policy here is actually starting to compromise safety?

RobertZZ,
There is some anecdotal evidence that some passengers seen exiting with hand luggage actually were not taking their own handbags, but baggage that had fallen from the bins and was blocking the way to the exit.

Not everything is what it seems.

:) LOL. No, it wasn't that airline :) The conversation took place before take-off. When speaking to the Cabin Manager, I offered a compromise which was that I retain my seat (I had no one next to me) until they needed it, and went back to it after they finished their rest period. It was accepted together with an apology for her colleague's original unfriendly approach. All parties were satisfied.

Recently flew on a half full 34 seat aircraft. I had an allocated seat but the cabin crew had no problem with me using any of the unoccupied seats during the flight.

Slightly off topic.

Two of us recently flew on 5 internal flights in the US booked by a travel agent from the UK (different airlines. In all cases when I checked in we were allocated seats together but always in the back or back 3 rows. I usually checked in within minutes of online checkin opening.

Is it usual to be allocated such rubbish seats or was I missing something?

It is not unusual in the USA that those pax who can pre select their seats often select the nearest available seat from the forward door for a rapid exit. The seats therefore fill up mainly from front to rear. Consequently, by the time you check in (not having pre selected seats) what's left will tend to be further aft. Applies with some carriers in Europe too.

My experience when flying with TUI from Germany or Switzerland, having bought a 'package holiday', is that they fill up their planes from the back and no choice of seat!

I was talking about scheduled operations. Loading of charter flights is different. I remember in the days of smoking, LTU for instance, loaded their Tristars from the front for non-smokers and the back for smokers. The zones were thus wherever the two met (if they met). Never particularly good for non-smokers who ended up near the split.

I would add that my 'holiday' seats were on regular scheduled flights with TUI with passengers booking as individuals just for the flights, and not even just as a 'flight only' option with a tour operator.

Each and every company is different. The best advice is to ask. Genuine reasons for not being able to move include seats being blocked for C of G, reserved for crew rest and seats where an additional charge is levied. Unfortunately, some cabin crew can be rather abrupt, rude and totally incorrect in their explanation, but right or wrong you have to do as they say. If I am asked and I have time I will always check to see how many people can move from one section to another, the answer is generally that it is OK.

You can see the effect of some of these inaccurate on posters to this thread. For example, many aircraft have seating zones for C of G calculations. If you move within the zone, you will not affect the C of G. A well known operator has a standard loading plan. This involves certain rows being blocked depending on passenger numbers. Providing the blocked rows are not sat in, people can sit wherever they want. Other loading systems generate trim settings for take-off. With these you can typically go wherever you want after departure. Moving back to your assigned seat for landing is typically not required. Others require a certain (aft) trim setting to obtain minimum drag (to avoid a tech. stop), therefore moving forwards is not OK. On public transport aircraft there is a reasonable margin beyond the published limits to allow for the weight ranges that make up averages and the occasional minor mistakes. Not surprisingly these are not always published.

Can I ask a dumb question? How many passengers would have to move seats to cause a C of G / trim / etc issue? Not many on a very small aircraft I know but I mean your average commercial aircraft.

Good question. I've just checked some blank load sheets (E175 & E190, so smallish aircraft) and can see that if you were loaded at the aft C of G for landing, on an E175 moving five passengers from the front to the back would put you outside the published loading envelope. Approximately 10 passengers would have to move on E190 to achieve the same effect. The effect on takeoff is less because the C of G moves aft as fuel is burnt. One hour's fuel is equal to about two passengers sitting in the front. And in case you are wondering, the fuller the aircraft, the more likely the C of G is to be in the centre if the envelope. This is due to the design of the aircraft. Your problems start when you fly just a handful of passengers with unusual freight in the holds. But given that we are aware of C of G problems when lightly loaded, we pay close attention to the initial C of G and "blocked" rows.

Thank you very much for that, PM.

On one flight, before departure, a male passenger swapped with MiL so she was near us. He made the offer and the FAs were not consulted.

The problem I find (particularly with KLM for some reason but it might just be a coincidence or a lot of inexperienced flyers) is people sitting in the wrong seats. Its a right hassle for the FAs to sort it out and often simpler to take their seat.

I can remember once being on a 737 when the operator had loaded all the passengers at the back leaving about 2/3 of the seats empty - after some consulation the Capt asked that people "redistribute themselves forward please" as he was worried about CoG issues. I suspect it was more likely to be handling he was worried about than tipping the plane over

Dash400? I've seen them move or deny people the request to move for trim reasons

If there is nothing in the rear hold on the Q400 it can get very limiting to the point a line check can't be done because the jump seat needs to be empty.

Be sure to let cabin staff know when you change your seat if you've ordered a special meal, as they will be looking for you at your assigned seat to serve it to you.