Congratulations Air Canada. You have made a lot of passengers very angry!
 

Easy, EU261/2004. Mx doesn't hide you from that.

So you're saying they had mechanical issues, and the crew ran out of hours. Air Cananda cancelled the flight. Pax got stranded, which happens very often across a multitude of airlines across the globe for various reasons, weather/mechanical etc.

Pax all made it home alive and unharmed? But two days later? First world problems huh.

And the airline offered full refunds to everyone for the inconvenience at likely massive financial cost the company.


You sound like the type of passenger that sits on plane and bitches to anyone within earshot about how it's all the "Airlines fault that you're delayed" during the conduct of holding pattern because your destination has thunderstorms hammering through.

Clown.

Whilst you can't appease ALL of the passengers,in situations involving revolving delays,the airline staff ( not necessarily in this case) sometimes fall short,and not just in the minor carriers.
Energy management is a very important part of the job,and not only from the front end,managing 250 tonnes of metal.
If passengers simply perceive that they are not being regularly updated,in case of delays,then social media becomes the preferred medium for "bad energy".

This can be extremely damaging for the brand,and the sooner the airlines wake up to this,the more money will be diverted to training ALL staff in passenger relations.

It's not rocket science,really...If you are in the situation of a delayed passenger,what would you want to know! That question needs to be asked by everyone responsible for passenger handling,and people need to be more proactive.

What has worked for many airlines in the past,is keeping uniformed staff with the delayed passenger groups,so that the perception of abandonment has no real foundation.
Again,just general comments here,based on own personal experiences.

It is also true that some badass people will state that they have been told nothing,even though the opposite is true :ugh::ugh:

From recent experience this strikes an all too familiar cord.These days everything is left to ground handling agents who are simply not suited to act as company representatives in the proper sense, so nothing gets communicated. Thats when frustration and anger sets in.On the other hand if customers were accompanied, proper explanations given and better looked after when these sort of immense delays occur, a lot of that anger would not be there.

Some will say of course, ``can`t do that, public wants cheaper fares``..really?? well what does a delay like this cost at the end of the day??...

Major L.

Are you saying that a "reported" 48 hour delay for a major airline is acceptable? Maybe a charter operator or a cheapie, but a Major? I don't think so. UK isn't that far away for a replacement aircraft?

If it is as reported ,they could have changed the whole engine in a quarter of that time?

Compensation doesn't bring back a wedding missed or 2 days of a holiday.

Wunwing

So AC has spare engines for their B767 fleet in MAN? And qualified engineers to change it? Over a weekend? In the peak season? When all the spare B767 aircraft capacity in Canada/UK have been taken up by Westjet (who are having much more serious problems with their hangar queens)?

Well, who would have known?

[\sarcasm]

Quite a bit, but a lot less than having provisions for much better passenger care in place which does cost money every day, even when everything runs perfectly.

Think (despite the Air Canada mainline logo on the arrivals board) that its a Rouge flight. AC mainline don't operate to MAN.

And would EU261 apply? Thought that it had to be an EU based operator for that to take effect?

ACARS - I believe EU261 applies to any airline flying to/from an EU destination.

Rather strangely, despite the Rouge series itself being relatively short, the last couple of weeks were operated as mainline flights by mainline aircraft. That would make you think that they were stretched across Air Canada/Rouge for the period, which would explain why getting a rescue aircraft was an issue. However I did see reported elsewhere that a rescue aircraft was dispatched eventually, but that never made it due to diverting with a technical issue

Little things can make a big difference to how problems are perceived...

To passengers that appears incompetent - from their perspective the airline knows when the crew will be out of time so why tell them to wait around for an 8 pm departure if their won't be a crew?

It sounds like the airline knew the crew would be out of hours if it didn't depart by 8pm and just hoped the engineers could fix it by then. If you actually tell passengers what your plan is and that it might not work out then they will/should be more understanding when you don't quite pull it off..

My guess. Supposed to be an easy fix. Crew sked has the crew come to the airport for a late morning departure. Repair goes awry for one of many reasons, and now the crew has started their duty day. Never go to the airport until the logbook is cleared, or you have a very strong guarantee from the ame who is actually working on the airplane.
Biggest fail here is probably the lack of real communications. Ultimately, there is now way that passengers should be sitting in Manchester for 48hrs with all the lift available in the UK this summer.

Seen it lots of times where they will try and guilt the crew into extending their duty day, even though it may not be legal

You can't expect anything better when you operate an aging (to use a polite word for clapped-out) fleet. The aircraft involved was C-FCAB, a 28 year-old 767-375ER. The rest of the AC 767 fleet comprises 12 aircraft 24 to 28 (average 26) years old and two that are a sprightly 16 years old. AC thinks it's probably risky to send out one of these on a rescue mission, even if they could spare one.
The daily Ottawa-LHR flight (AC888) is operated by a 767 and is scheduled to depart at 2240. If that flight is cancelled, the poor sods booked to return to Canada from LHR next day are SOL -- but at least they get plenty of notice.
It's third-world service from a supposedly first-world airline.
Rockhound

In fact it applies to any european airline and for flights (by any airline) originating in the EU.
So for an AC flight departing MAN it does apply.

First of all passengers want to know their options, they want to know when their fliegt goes, of if not, who else can carry them to their destination or whether it is time to call it day and go home not travelling at all. Travelling to a wedding, funeral, meeting or an interview 2 days late does not make any sense. In that case you also want to inform the people on the other end of the pond that you will not show up, at least not on time. You need to cancel hotel reservations (or you have to pay for the night you do not use, and lose the reservation for the others...).
All of this could be managed by a well organized cutomer relations agent, or you leave your customers to their own devices, and hope they chose your company again.

Anything can happen, but at least you should be able to handle it properly.

There can't be an airline anywhere in the world that hasn't made a lot of people angry at some time.

A bit of a nonevent for the rest of the world really?

First 3 laws of commercial aviation.

1. Take off is an option; landings are not.
2. Take offs are free; landings cost money. (because of No.1)
3. S*#t will happen.

I'm pretty sure it's in line with their Mission Statement though...

"We're not happy until you're not happy."

:E

Good Afternoon All:

This has all the makings of a first world problem:

• IRROPS (irregular operations) is called that for a reason
• All passengers given a full refund
• All passengers put into a hotel for two nights at Airlines expense
• All passengers given meal vouchers for breakfast, lunch and dinner

As an aside a thousand years ago when the A-320 was brand new we had an IRROPS in HOU that was three days because of an ELAC Pitch Channel 2 fault (No Go under MEL) where a technician from Airbus in Toulouse France had to fly over to fix, so it happens to new aircraft as well

Would the Mods consider this to be an event for the Canadian Aviation side or for SLF?

Oh RAT 5 +1 well said for the great unwashed

Hmmmm ... not sure that's a good idea
 

I see how this might avoid infringing the letter of the law regarding duty cycle.
What I don't see is how it's going to present a fully-rested (or adequately-rested) crew reporting for duty.