Bomb on board ?
 

From AvWeb, Vol 21 3b Jan 17th. read today,

Being Polite !!! ( my emphasis, below )

They're never polite to me, tellling me to remove my belt and shoes etc.

Just proves my point - the safest way to travel is to carry ones' own bomb on board, 'cos there's never been an incident of TWO bombs being gound on board !!

Bomb-Carrying Teen Gives Up Bomb, Allowed to Board Flight Canadian authorities are investigating the case of n teenager who was apparently allowed to board a flight even after security found a pipe bomb in his carry-on. Using gunpowder obtained from an undisclosed source, 18-year-old Skylar Murphy of Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada, and a buddy made two pipe bombs. Boys being boys with explosives, they detonated one in a field. Saving the other for later, Murphy stuffed the 15-centimeter by five-centimeter tube, with its three-meter fuse, into a camera bag and ostensibly forgot about it until he was carrying the camera bag and bomb through security at the Edmonton, Alberta Airport. An alert Canadian Air Transport Security Authority (CATSA) guard found the bomb. Being polite, he tried to return !! the explosive device to Murphy. According to CBC News Edmonton, Murphy declined the offer and told the guard to keep it. Murphy then joined his family on their flight to Mexico for a vacation.
CATSA personnel waited four days after Murphy’s excursion through security to disclose it to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). Things then figuratively blew up for all concerned. Upon his return to Edmonton, Murphy was greeted by a “large number of uniformed troops, a SWAT team and bomb-sniffing dogs.” He was eventually convicted of possessing an explosive device and fined $100. Criticism was directed at CATSA from virtually anyone who could find a microphone or computer, including Federal Transport Minister Lisa Raitt, who said that the individual should not have been allowed to board his flight. CATSA spokesperson Mathieu Larocque said that the officers involved were suspended and given additional training before returning to work. He also said that training materials and procedures have been updated. When contacted by CBC News, Mr. Murphy replied that “what has been published is not at all an accurate portrayal of what happened.”

What's better, sending him to Mexico or keep him home to make another bomb.

It doesn't surprise me. I witnessed a staff member report three unattended bags to the security staff as we went through the staff search area this morning and they just ignored him. Twice. They then just stared at me blankly when I asked them if they were going to do anything about the reported bags, and then got stroppy when I suggested that they might want to do their job and either investigate or call their supervisors. I don't think anything was ever done. Some security staff need to be treated as suspect packages themselves and remotely detonated, I think.:mad:

Munich airport in the underground station.

Abandoned suitcase on the platform, no staff around so I asked in a loud voice and multiple languages "Who does this bag belong to?"
Not a flicker, apart from idiots asking sarcastically "So you think there's a bomb in it?"
Called the police who casually drifted in (2 of them) and didn't prevent 2 full trains arriving and disembarking.

2 weeks later, an undetonated explosive device was found on the platform in Bonn....

Can you explain to me how this is any different than law abiding citizens found by the TSA trying to bring guns through security being allowed to travel after the gun is seized?

I'm not saying I agree with either case, I don't.

The TSA agent recognized the gun for what it is... The CATSA agent handed the bomb back to the passenger to carry on the flight.:} (At least that's my impression of the story.) Passenger showed more common sense than to take the bomb.

LBA - AMS recently, a lady went through security check with an open bag full of knitting & needles, and knitted merrily in her aisle seat all the way to the destination.

Our Canadian friends appear to be a lot more forgiving of "boys experimentation" than we would be in Australia.
If a pipe bomb was found in your luggage here, I can assure you the following will happen, VERY rapidly.

1. You wouldn't be boarding your flight.
2. You would be escorted to an interview room where some nice police would start grilling you about how this device came into your possession and exactly what you had in mind for it.
They would advise you that constructing explosive devices under Australian law without an explosives permit, is viewed an an extremely serious criminal offence, and advise you of the serious penalties involved (up to 10 years in the slammer and $150K financial penalty).
3. You would be arrested and given a free ride in a cosy prisoner transport vehicle to a nearby police station, where you would be formally interviewed in a recorded interview, and then charged with constructing an illegal explosive device.

You would be obliged to remove your belt, shoes and other personal items and then be transported to a cell.
You would then be allowed to make a minimal number of phone calls to family and friends, and a lawyer to get legal advice. If you don't know any lawyers, a duty lawyer would be appointed to you.

According to the seriousness and level of the offence/s or charge/s, you might have to spend a night in the holding cells, before appearing before a magistrate the following morning.
The magistrate would decide whether you stay in a proper jail until all evidence is gathered and your charges are heard in a full criminal court hearing, or whether you can be let out on bail.
You would need to find someone to post bail, or supply a guarantee yourself for the bail amount, and sign a form guaranteeing you will appear for your charge/s to be heard.

When your appointed charge/s hearing day appears, you would be obliged to front a magistrate or judge on that day, and listen to the police prosecutor provide evidence as to the offence of constructing an illegal explosive device, against the current sections of the Federal or State law statutes.
You would be able to choose to give evidence, or decline to give evidence, in your defence.

The magistrate or judge will weigh up the circumstances surrounding your experimental foolishness, and the minimum penalty you will receive will be a hefty financial one - and if you're out of luck, you may also be given a jail sentence - or if your luck holds, a suspended jail sentence instead.

The bottom line is - if you feel like playing around with home-made explosives and pipe bombs - there's not just the risk of losing a limb, an eye, or even killing yourself - there's the risk that your experimentation will almost certainly lead to a criminal record that will be a blight on your future employment opportunities, and the general perception that you're not real smart at making important personal choices. :(

No doubt this was very stupid, but how is it more dangerous that people attempting, and sometimes succeeding, in taking guns on board?

Shouldn't that be a crime with similar consequences?

I fail to see the problem. Frankly you could juggle flick knives or swords in the cabin if you wish (away from others of course). What I don't want are people on board with high powered firearms, explosives, unpleasant chemicals or electrolytic solutions. But most of all, I don't want people who intend to do harm to others. Unfortunately they are not spotted by the "one size fits all" political theatre, delivered by the otherwise unemployable, that we all have to endure every working day.

You assume that the Security Artist identifies the object as an explosive device... If I make two pipe bombs connected by two meters of fuse and the guy at the X-ray scanner identifies it as a jumping cord. :ouch: At least it seems like some misidentification of the device happened initially in Canada, it's pretty hard to look into a sealed metal tube and find out whether it's filled with innocent plastic or more explosive material.

The guy got his grilling on return.

Isn't everyone missing the really big issue here?

Isn't this the first time in the history of airport security that the airport gate security staff have actually found a bomb!!??

Strange though that it seemed to cause less consternation than if the lads had been carrying liquids. :rolleyes:

I think the point is that nothing sharp with a length of over 6 cm should go on a plane, (or nothing sharp at all according to the TSA mongs). Sharp objects could be used to force aircraft crew to the possessors will.

Onetrack - I'm glad that I didn't live in OZ when I and my mates experimented with making bombs in our teens.

Two decades ago I attended a lecture on bombs and security staged by the airline I'd just joined, AirUK. The lecturer told us how one day he'd been asked to open his case at the security desk of a UK business who'd hired him to advise their staff on bomb threats. The case was full of demonstration stuff: timers, fake semtex etc. The "last line of defence" security muppet in reception asked him to open the case, inspected the contents, closed the lid and handed it back to him, saying "thank you, that's fine. You can't be to careful these days, can you sir?"

If you want nothing sharp you would have to ban duty-free bottles. That isn't going to happen.

What we experience is theatrics, not a lot more.

I'm sure I've seen razor blades on sale in departure lounges before now.

Several years ago when in Changi airport I spotted an unattended bag and feeling a bit embarrassed reported it. The authorities
didn't mind a bit however, the police turned up within about a minute questioned me and started to clear the area. Just then
a man turned up to claim said bag. He acted like someone who wondered what all the fuss was about ( he had been away from
it for about 20 minutes.) That lasted about 10 seconds until he realised the police were rather annoyed with him when they all
walked away to an airport room. Never did hear what happened to him but rather him than me :ok:

Not necessary - many DF shops (and Spanish supermarkets in tourist areas) sell spirits in plastic bottles, presumably because of the weight, but you couldn't smash these for the glass and they would be much less effective as a cosh.

Pens, however, are a different story - I wouldn't want my slim steel pen held to my throat, but no notice is taken of these.

Bristol Airport, 9th January, waiting for a Ryanair Customer Experience. Bit of time in hand, so I go to the cafe on the 1st floor, leave my cabin bag on a table about 20m from the counter, and join the queue for coffee 'n a cake. I keep a very close eye on my bag.

Along comes one of Avon & Somerset's finest. Peaked hat, boots, hi-vis, radio, weaponry; all sorts of accoutrements slung around his person. He patrols with a measured pace, a guardian of the law in all his majesty, alert and aware, ready to deal instantly and decisively with any threat to security, real or potential.

He stops next to the table with my apparently unattended bag on it. I get ready to spring into action to claim it as mine and show him that it is harmless. He rocks back and forth on his heels for two or three minutes, looking keenly about him for anything that needs his attention.

Then he turns and resumes his patrol at his measured pace, having made sure that all was secure and safe in the cafe area.

I felt an overwhelming rush of gratitude that we are all so well protected by these brave men.

Yeah, but then I've seen pilots get arrested for turning up pissed on the flight deck, but I wouldn't for a minute imply that it was representative of their industry. There's the odd fool in every line of work who probably shouldn't be there.

I also have to love the mentions of razor blades, glass bottles, and pens earlier in the thread as shocking and deadly things that are available after security or able to be taken through. If someone tried taking over the aircraft I was on with a razor blade, a shard of broken bottle, or a ballpoint pen, he'd be getting a swift and mighty kick to the slats and I'm sure I'd only be first in a queue of dozens. At worst I might get cut, but I doubt I'd care much.

I'm really more concerned about the radicalised young man getting on with a load of liquid explosive and the rest of the makings, more than I am the rogue knitting needle or razor blade.