Sorry, you're too late...
 

I recently travelled for the first time on one of the well known low cost airlines. Due to the unfortunate circumstances of someone on the rail track, a fast train to the airport was cancelled and the result of this was that I arrived at the check-in desk just 2 minutes after the official check-in time (1/2 hour before departure). A couple of others on the same train were just also 1 minute late. However, despite reasoned argument, we were all politely told, sorry you're too late, you can't get on this plane.

Now, granted, we probably should have allowed for such a delay, but nevertheless, this seemed somewhat inflexible. It was the last plane of the day, the plane was not full and not one of us were carrying more than just hand lugage. Two of the travellers were also frequent flyers of that route.

Allegedly, this was a decision of the captain. But I was just wondering if this is standard and reasonable practice across airlines and if others have experienced it.

Alternatively, is this an extreme case of sticking to the rules and inflexibility. Certainly, I would question whether I would use that airline again, and could not possibly recommend it for the business traveller who may have to make a late dash to the airport.

For the most part - this is standard butthe details for all carriers are going to vary.

For example, if you are at LHR, the answer is NO because it will take too long to get through security and out to a distant gate.

At LTN the distance is shorter and they might say yes to hand luggage only.

At STN you have to use the shuttle and that might intorduce too long a delay.

The use of the phrase "The captain's decision" may - or may not - be a ruse as it sounds better than, my supervisor's decision. Because, naturally, you would then ask to speak to the supervisor, whereas you know that you cannot speak to the captain!

Also, the cost to a carrier of missing their slot is enormous.

LC

I hazard a guess from your post that you are refering to a STN flight. However, if you are refering to LTN and EASY then surely you have seen the program Airline on which the girls in Orange would turn pax away at least once on each and every episode.

My point is, if the airline is not prepared to allow pax to check-in after check-in closes then nobody should expect anything else.

As PAXboy says, point out that you have hold baggage and offer to run. If they say no, bad luck!! There has to be a cut off time set and some will always be tooo late.

(perhaps there should be a set of traffic lights above the check-in desks)

Booked on Ryanair?
 

Correct my if I'm wrong, but this sounds very much like you were booked on a Ryanair flight?

Rules is rules. Security needs to maintained slots need to be made and precidents must be avoided. If you were catching a train it would have gone without you whether you reserved a seat or not.

Yes, that sounds standard. If thay have already sent the message "last baggage", then the procedure for reopening is complicated and comes with lots of moaning from all those concerned. One day one of the nicest persons in CDG, an AZ supervisor, had it done for me and he went through so much hassle that I wondered how he could have felt like doing that (obviously he gor a chocolate box on my next passage and now we are in friendly terms :) )
When I am even 1 minute late and I see that the procedure is closed, I don't even ask.

Well, this post is not a total moan, so I guess it won't harm to say the airline in question was EasyJet, flying from Luton.
As was mentioned, I think we were the "compulsary" passengers per episode of airline that get turned away - cameras in fact there and filming everything going on. Maybe this is the reason why we were at least offered flights the following morning at no extra cost (except overnight accom.). I wonder if this is standard practice?

I understand the fact that rules are rules, however, attempting constructive debate, feel that in this situation they could have tried to help out and enhance a "helpful" reputation. Its a couple of minutes to the gate (walking) and everyone had hand language. The other passengers would not have boarded yet, the plane was not full and there would have been no delay for the aircraft. I know (personally and from others) of many occasions where this would not have been an issue. If you think about it, it would probably take longer for them to put lugage in the hold when we arrived just one minute before close, than it would to let us through with hand lugage a minute after close.

Maybe they could have staggered check-in close for those with and those without hold lugage. No doubt some will argue this is moving the goal posts again, but in reality hand lugage only must be quicker, and its one less thing that passengers could use against the airline when not being allowed through.

Its more frustrating after standing in the queue for half an hour! I have seen it a few times recently at the LH economy checkin desks in Frankfurt. A single long queue through the baggage security screening and back across the departure hall. If you don`t listen carefully (German language helps) or even push your way to the front its easy to believe that since you are in the queue you will be checked in even if you are a few minutes late. I witnessed a great episode recently when an Italian guy in front of me made this mistake. He was standing at least 30 minutes in the queue and got to the desk about 5 mins late for his checkin time. The resulting arguement was a joy to watch with full gesticulation! (And he still didn`t get on!)

:D
(Sorry, shouldn`t smile!)

Little Chief
I work for easyJet as cabin crew and for the four years I have been there, the captain has not been asked ONCE if they will accept a late passenger! Ground staff use this excuse to pass the buck. (Apologies to our ground staff, however you KNOW it is true!)
The reason that they could not allow you onto the flight is that the check-in computer system automatically shuts down at -30 mins so even if you were travelling with NO luggage, be it hand or hold, and could run like Mr Christie, you can not be checked into the system. Obviously for for security reasons, that is a no-no!:)
I know it is very annoying - I expereienced it myself this weekend. Thanks to some lady in the Tickets sales desk taking soooo long, my friend, who was trying to transfer on to a flight, missed it because by the time he got to the front of the queue, the system had closed the flight. The people on the desk knew that myself and my husband, who were travelling aswell, were staff, but STILL could not do anything!
Like you said, you could possibly account for any train delay in your travelling time, but for some people, especially businessmen, this is easier said than done.
But people must also understand that we are a business and we have to be quite firm with the rules - if the goalposts are moved or we do it for one passenger etc... then that starts to become the 'Norm' and people will expect it everytime.
I am sorry that you missed you flight and I hate to think that you would not fly with us because of it. I hope this explains the situation for you.....:D :D :D

Thanks SectorBabe for explaining this. I'm sure if we had of been told this at the time, all involved would have been much more understanding (even if still frustrated) - although as you say, for business travellers who might have to leave it to the last minute it must have some influence on their decision to fly with EZ. Maybe Mr. Stelios can look in the future at ways to help them too.

On the positive side, I had no other complaints with the flights we did catch.

Well just to let you all know that it CAN happen and the rules CAN be bent if the check in staff like you and you have a mobile fone...

I was travelling by god awful (running late)train and tube to Heathrow for Virgin flight to Jo'burg in January. Friend already at check in desk rings me on the tube to find out where I am. Me not thinking it wold be a problem as I was at Ealing on the Piccadilly line, still with 1hr 15 mins til departure, but oh dear check in closes in 15 minutes (1 hr before departure).

Friend (male and quite handsome) sweet talks check in girlies who say they will wait til 45 mins before departure. 15 minutes left and I am at Hounslow East. Check in girlies not convinced i'll make it... neither am I!

At last, tube arrives at Heathrow Central. It's 2043... 2 minutes to get to terminal three. Nearly knock dawdly bloke over with Samsonite on platform(sorry if youre reading this)... run as much as I can with Samsonite and rucksack to Terminal 3... Arrive at check in desk at 2045 on the dot.

Boarding pass and luggage tag already issued before flight closed... bag tagged and we make haste to the plane.

Thanks to those check in staff staying behind late, my holiday was 10 days instead of 9, for which I will always be indebted.

BUT it just goes to show you that there ARE some NICE check in staff out there who are prepared to bend the rules in the name of customer service... as an air traffic controller we have pages and pages of rules, but one of those is ''Nothing in these rules shall prevent an air traffic controller from applying descretion as they see fit'' admittedly not word for word but I can't remember the exact wording.

Maybe it's time so other people started to take the same line, like our nice friends at Heathrow!

Well a simple solution is that next time you're travelling on business choose a proper business airline, not a low cost carrier that claims it is. If you'd been on BA they'd have ground staff scouring the queues for people running late, and if you could make it to the gate with hand luggage before departure time you'd be on. I've had loads of runners arrive seconds before departure and still make it, and as BA has invested in radio loadsheet technology it doesn't mess up the paperwork whether you make it or not, so generally you're allowed to have a go. Plus we probably have a later flight than easy as well.:)

Why do check in 'blame it on the skipper' when the truth is a computer system calls the shots?

you can be P**sed off with the captain because you know he's a person in control but who or where is the guy who wrote the program behind the checkin system? nobody as far as the pax are concerned!!

IMHO blame it on the system and not a human and I'm sure the pax will accept it more readily.

FS

Actually it's the load controllers who control the computer close off, and so they are the only ones who can 'reopen' the flight and except you as 'LMC's' (Last Minute Changes). It all depends on were your aircraft is(for remote & bused stands, forget it!) & how busy the airport is (how quickly you'll get through security), as to wether they'll except you. The loadie may or may not consult the captain of the flight concernd depending on how close it is to the slot time. At the end of the day the captain WILL generally support the ground crew decision in this matter. So my advice is leave PLENTY (and I mean PLENTY) of time for getting to the airport, so that you can complete check-in before it closes for the flight.

Sectorbabe,

Check-in systems (DCS - Departure Control System) do have a number of automatic functions running in the background. Check-in close-out is not one of them.
These systems are required to be closed by the load control team, situated normally in a grotty little rooms situated under buildings. Basically they are normally locked away from view.

They have to interact with the customer service team before check-in is closed to produce the load documentation. Without liason, check-in could be closed (if automatic) whilst check-in staff were in the middle of a transaction, and as anyone who uses a PC at home will know, this causes problems.

This can often lead to too many pax onboard, or too many bags in the hold. These two common problems more often than not delay flights whilst baggage ID's are carried out, or crew are carrying out headcounts, and trying to establish which passengers are onboard, which according to the PC are not meant to be.

Passengers, get there on time. Its the easiest way. Yet if you are lucky enough to be travelling with an airline that spends money on customer services, ie, check-in kiosks, telephone check-in, gate check-in, and other such services, then should something go wrong you might just be OK. Spend peanuts on your flight, and, well, Need I say more!

:D :rolleyes: :D

Words of wisdom, AOG007 !

AOG007 just put more concisely what i said. And Grotty little rooms is spot on!!! ;) :p :D :D

There seem to a number of issues here, first I believe most, if not all, the low cost carriers don't use conventional reservations and DCS systems. The common alternative is HP Open Res, maybe shutting a flight automatically at -30 (or some other preset time) is a function of that system.

Second, I do believe you are more likely to get a better deal with the "conventional" carriers in circumstances like this. Some years ago my mother turned up at Heathrow for a New York flight with an expired passport. Just over 2 hours before departure she phoned me saying "what do I do now?". I said, take a taxi, go home and get the valid passport. While she lived in Chiswick she was due to travel on the last flight (in those days 1800/1830) so she was going to get caught in traffic; and she was. The taxi driver did his best but they got back to Heathrow at about -25. She grabbed the nearest staff member, explained her problem and was wisked to the head of check in, through security and down to the aircraft (which of course was at the end of the longest pier) just as the doors closed. And her bag made it too. These days, with security, I suspect she wouldn't have made it with those timings, but then she'd be at the airport earlier so who knows?

I had an experience with the (old) PAN AM on flight from LAX to SFO back in Jan '91, when returning from a magic holiday in Thailand via HKG.

However when we arrived at LAX (after a 12 hour sector) the CX skipper told us due to a 'go-slow' by immigration staff and increased security due to the Gulf war, the terminal was full to capacity and that we would have to wait on the flight until the terminal became sufficiently free to allow us to disembark.

Meanwhile the freight and baggage from the a/c was unloaded. Our bags were inter-lined to the PAN AM flight at the domestic terminal.

The queues were horrendous! Realising the push back time for our connecting flight was close we asked a CX representative if she could assist, which she did by persuading the immigration to allow us to enter via the crew line.

From there it was a mad dash to the other terminal, through security to the gate. We made it to the flight gate as they were still boarding the flight, however when I presented the tickets (OK 100% firm commercial) the ticket agent glanced at me, my wife with baby and the foldable 'buggy'. He hrugged his shoulders and said that he had given the seats to standby pax as he felt we were too late! Having just crossed the Pacific with the family we were pretty shattered and not exactly amused by this.

Any remonstration was futile and he stood his ground saying it would cause too much hassle trying to get us on! Whilst I could accept that I was completely astonished by what followed.

In that case I said, 'Fair enough! Please inform the skipper that our bags are on board the flight (having been inter-lined) and that they should be removed before he departed!'

This was within 23 months of the Lockerbie bombing, so I would have thought that any responsible person in Pan Am would have taken action to remove the cases immediately! The agent made a comment that I was trying to deliberately trying to delay the flight as he had refused us seats and got very irritated! He even refused to to inform the skipper and the flight began its departure! I was absolutely flabber-gasted by this.

Whilst I had threatened to take this to Pan Am's management I failed to follow it through unfortunately.

Sure enough when we arrived at SFO (some 6 hours later on later flight...PAN AM refused to endorse the tickets to another airline!) our bags had been taken off the carousel and left to one side! So much for security!!

Pan Am were out of business in less than 18 months after that..however I didnt shed any tears about it as they were a dreadful airline in those last few years and deserved to be placed on the scrap heap!::mad: :mad:

I think that all the exceptions prove the rule. Be there early!

However, there is one point that was only briefly touched on my one person - security.

I am a regular at LTN and of EZY, so know the system and fastest line between check-in and gate!

Let us say that check-in say, "OK, you have no hold bags and you can run for it." THEN security are concerned, you are flustered. Maybe sweating heavily? This is a classic of someone trying to beat the system by being deliberately late and blustering their way through.

They might choose to open your hand case and go through it in minute detail. They might choose to take you aside and question you further.

What happens to the, "It'll only take two minute to run to the gate." then?

I am one who likes to get to check-in very early but I too have been held up by traffic on M25 and had to run for it through LHR. It happens to all of us.

As for the offer of flight the next morning. If this is standard policy, it would be offered. If it isn't, it wouldn't!!