BASSA said that the vote would not result in a strike but would send a message.

The message it sends is that the dispute is not over, therefor Duncan keeps his job and the cash continues to roll in.

A "real" strike?
 

Shouldn't the bassa junta declare a "real" strike? One where the strikers walk out for 12 weeks (at least) and do not return until the issues are resolved?

"Real" strikes used to be the norm. The employees would really hurt the employer, and would be seriously out of pocket themselves.

Who gains from these strikes that only last a few days? These "holidays" for the BMW driving, Pimms swilling hobby jobbers?
No-one...........other than the bassa junta them selves, who prolong the strike and keep raking in the money from the branch funds.

Links to Ballot numbers and percentages
 

References are the following links
0.1 _ paragraph 4 of:-___link

0.2 _Total number of ballot paper is stated in:-___ link

1.1 _ paragraph 8 of:-___link

2.1 _ link

3.1 _-link

4.1 _-link

4.2 _Total number of ballot paper is stated in:-___ link

I am quite sure that most passengers will be simultaneously pragmatic and phlegmatic about the result of the most recent BASSA vote.

British Airways is not the only airline in the world.

This is not bad news for passengers, as BA will function perfectly adequately, as usual.

There is NO strike declaration [I assume 'Daddy' has to approve that, and it would possibly have been pre-agreed anyway].

We'll just carry on as usual, with grumpy crew and inconsistent service, on a reliable and safe airline. Those who are younger than I may see the final fanfare as the last of the legacy crew retire.

I have friends who have refused to fly BA since the strike votes in 2009 on the basis they don't know what will happen. I have continued to fly BA along with MPN11 but I'm not sure we are in the majority. Would be interesting to see how this hits bookings and margins.


Interesting to see how BA plays it. They have told strikers what to expect and then followed through with that promise. Hopefully BA will take a stronger stance and actually use this opportunity to improve customer service by removing crew who don't want to be there. If only disgruntled crew would actually really vote with their feet and find another job but I guess a lack of transferable skills means they can't get the same pay \ conditions anywhere else.

In one sense, the number voting Yes is not surprising. The 5,000 odd crew who did go on strike don't have much to lose by voting Yes again. Add in the regular empty promises and you get your Yes vote.

That said, it is disappointing that Keith Williams' gesture in paying the bonuses to strikers (and the departure of WW to IAG) has had no effect. Nor has any loss of credibility in connection with the last failed ballot.

If crew have been conditioned to believe that BASSA is the sole source of the truth and everything BA does is part of a sinister plot to crush BASSA and crew then little can be done to turn this around.

Also, sadly, if the claim that the PCCC has 200 members is true then I'm sorry to say but I think the ship has sailed as far as establishing it as a credible alternative to BASSA.

We've just flown LGW-GND-LGW in J & the flight was chocker both ways, in all classes. You are definitely not alone in backing BA.

Our future (LHR) flights are booked up to March 2012.

I think that 200 number would only be at the time of PornGate, when the website was launched and more public profile was first adopted. Can't remember when all that kicked off? Anyone...?

PCCC – Professional Cabin Crew Council probably has many more members by now, though probably not enough to make a play for recognition yet.

The result of this ballot is being largely ridiculed, or worse, ignored, on other passenger forums.

This is not a strike, it's a "strikette," as was the last one. It will not succeed (if it ever takes place) because there will be plenty of volunteers to take up the slack.

It is, however, time for BA to get tough with the miscreants. Including strikers in the bonus scheme was a grave error of judgement.

There's posh!! I'm only booked up to October this year. ;)

And there's the [expensive] point of this ongoing farce.
Having spent BASSA [??] subscriptions on yet another ballot, and got a "Yes" from 5,800 people ... where's the Strike Dates?
Are Unite waiting to see the massive support before allowing DH to go ahead?
Or do they even care about this embarrassing outfit?
...............
For those with short memories, there was a series of 4 strikes last May [nothing to do with the volcano, which affected April]. I flew through 2 of those, and thousands of other people did as well. we all [with a few exceptions] proceeded from A to B. NOW, in 2011, BA has even more VCC ... and a completely new Fleet who aren't interested in preserving the perks of the pre-97 senior crew [enough said on that aspect].

IF Unite agree IA, I'll be surprised.
IF IA is agreed, and it has any significant impact, I'll be surprised.
IF Duncan Holley allows a democratic vote on the BASSA leadership, I'll be surprised.
IF BASSA releases its accounts, I'll be surprised.
It could be an interesting year :cool:

Lack of Consideration
 

This is most inconsiderate of all CC concerned in Unite/BASSA, I am due to go to Porto during or close to the likely strike period, nowI am going to have to adjust my dates and booking to go to Lisbon, as BA don't fly to Porto, then fly or drive to Porto.

All to show my backing for BA and belief that any strikers should be given a straight boot up the a*se with a P45 and, refusal of any reference other than stating that after being given a bonus, they refused to carry out their duties and went on strike. Which reminds me, can that bonus be removed?

And ...... the union movement is worried about foreign labour taking over 'British' jobs!!! - Don't worry, Len Mcluck is on the way again, he's used to dealing with large numbers of redundancies - can anyone remember how many the Docks used to employ before he got going?

The stupidity and cupidity of people continues apace :ugh:

Entaxei
 

:ok:

Enjoy a pleasant drive/fly to Porto :cool:

As a long time lurker, I decided to register and give a view today.

It is ridiculous that the biggest airline in the UK has a Mexican stand off with nearly 15% of it's workforce, after all this time.

Time for the company to resolve the situation, management should manage.

The legislation is there to take action and the justification is clear.

Action this day.

1. Hello, Frogal. I share your grief, but BA is playing a long game. I think the evidence is that they know what they're doing ... see next.

2. From the CC Thread ...
3. BASSA/DH are possibly intent to play silly bu66ers, as was pre-warned some time back. That does precisely nothing to further the cause of the CC, of course, but does have the potential to cause minor damage to BA's forward bookings.

4. Following on from 3, I hesitate to mention the fact that DH appears to have engineered a situation where he remains in his salaried post as long as there is an on-going Industrial Dispute, despite the fact that he is no longer employed by BA and is technically un-entitled to be Gen Sec of BASSA. However, one day those 5,811 union subscription payers will realise what's happening ... especially if the "unavailable" BASSA accounts ever surface.


This is a DIRTY fight, and BA are remaining impressively calm. I do earnestly hope there will be some severe retribution in the future ... not for the individual CC, but for those who have created this farce.

MPN 11
 

I'm using an Amex voucher plus BA miles to CPT. As you well know, if you don't book 353 days in advance, the 2x only J class seats have gone. I'll be updating our return flights later in the week. Navigators were always renowned for their planning, now we're just like the Do-Do!

Returning to the topic, I notice that the BBC have eventually stopped reporting the fictitious report that the Bassa majority was in excess of 8 to 1. I guess that the left wing BBC initially happily reported an untrue Bassa leak prior to the release of the official figures.

I wonder how long it will be before the ballot is declared illegal?

If they go ahead with the tactics of declaring and then cancelling strikes, how long will it be before a Conservative led government decides its time to amend the legislation to make the tactic illegal?

If, as soundings suggest, BASSA is aware that the strike is unprotected, I don't think we'll even get to strike dates being called. As soon as Unite does that the meter starts running on the damages claim against Unite.

Are the damages not limited to £250k? It is a big number but less than 1% of member revenue. Come to think of it, that is less than 50% of the extra Bassa charge their members.

Believe me, I would want to retain that money in Unite coffers, as a percentage of that is mine, but who is set to loose more, BA or Unite?

I thought it already was illegal. Wasn't there some discussion some weeks ago about an American airline (Alaskan?) being subject to this sort of action and having to succumb? I think at the time it was stated that such behaviour was not possible (without penalty) under UK laws.

I believe the tactics used in USA were something like, declaring a strike but then turn up for work, then declare another strike a few days later, but again turn up, then actually go on strike without notice. I may have the details wrong but I think the basis is about right.

On the CC thread, there are two comments being made (among many);

A. "That Bassa Reps are spreading the word that there won't really be a strike, just threats." Is there a list of Bassa Reps anywhere, as it was reported many months ago that a large quantity had been sacked by BA for various actions/discipline problems. Bearing in mind that BASSA supposedly cannot elect anybody to any positions whilst there is a dispute in place, so there should not be any replacement Reps voted in, but DH did advertise for unpaid!! volunteers - again if there is, presumably BA have to be advised accordingly - and agree? - but as the facility agreement is no longer in place? are Reps still recognised? - or allowed to do anything.

B. "That Unite are negotiating with BA (KW) to reach an agreement over the IA issues." The only problem with this as Woodley found out before handing over to Mclucksky, is that BASSA claimed the sole rights to agree a dispute - and Woodley agreed and withdrew the Unite statement recommending acceptance of the offer that he agreed with BA - so where's the dog and where's the tail?

Don't you just love a nice tidy ordered world!! :rolleyes:

I notice something interesting._ It might be a coincidence, but didn’t someone once say that there is no such thing as a coincidence?

On 22 February 2011, Brendan Gold of Unite, sent a letter which very carefully and methodically calculated the cabin crew membership of BA to be 9824._ Now this figure was just about exactly 400 less that the numbers who had been balloted in the 21 December 2010 - 21 January 2011 strike vote._ Quite a big drop in such a short amount of time._ Comparing that ballot with the one announced yesterday I see that the YES vote is pretty well the same, the spoiled votes about the same and the DIDN’T RETURN BALLOT paper also just about the same._ But look and behold - the NO vote dropped by approximately 400 votes._ Please forgive me for suggesting this, but could it be that those cabin crew who received a ballot paper despite having resigned from BASSA decided to take advantage of this and vote against the Union that they no longer liked?_ If they did this, then that would have been naughty.

A couple of posters on the other thread suggesting that all it would take is the full return of ST and independent arbitrations for those dismissed. Somewhat different to the 10 items of dispute heralded by BASSA.

I wonder if that is the majority view? And I wonder if BA offered it, would the knowing-they-wont-be-re-employed Messrs Holley, Everard etc allow their members to vote on it?

Doubt it.

Could someone explain to me the difference between the current system where anyone sacked can go to an Industrial Tribunal for an independent right/wrong decision (which I thought was in place now) and what BASSA are asking for in their long list of demands. Why ACAS arbitration when ACAS don't understand employment law as well as the Industrial Tribunal folks?

Me confused - can't understand the difference?

Thanks

GrahamO
 

An employment tribunal will look at the facts and merits of the case and judge whether the actions taken by the employer were reasonable. The key thing is the the ET cannot make its own judgment on the facts and impose its view.

So if BA carried out and investigation (internal) and then followed its own disciplinary procedure (internal) including appeals and came to a decisions to dismiss (internal), then unless there was something so perverse, then the dismissal will be fair.

Even if the tribunal found that the dismissal was unfair, there would be no obligation to reengage the dismissed employee, just pay them.

What I believe Bassa are asking for is arbitration by an independent, who will judge on the facts of the case, not whether the process followed was fair.

Does this make sense?

Oh no! . . and there was I thinking there would be more staff travel seats available for me when all the strikers lost theirs :}:p

five live -
 

Having emailed and texted searching questions about BASSA's accounts and pay of its officers to Victoria Derbyshire's show which featured CC in all its diversity this morning, I was disappointed it never came up!

Someone called Ian spoke up on behalf of BASSA quite eloquently until falling into a great big putrid hole filled with his own bile. He likened the plight of BASSA with that of the Jews on Kristallnacht. What sort of stupid insensitive tow-rag does that?

Kristallnacht - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Symptomatic of its bankrupt arguments, BASSA has a history of deploying frankly abhorrent Nazi imagery to ram its perverse message home:

http://daylife.sky.com/imageserve/0d...ndabg/610x.jpg

http://daylife.sky.com/imageserve/0d...ndabg/610x.jpg

And again a BASSA propaganda sheet littered with references paralleling this "struggle" to the Holocaust:

http://bassa.co.uk/bassa/downloads/N...DFFile-785.pdf

They also have a penchant for using children to make their point, which is deeply unpleasant, reminiscent of Saddam Hussein’s “Human Shield”:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/94c16cff08.jpg

www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/94c16cff08.jpg

Get a grip. You are no better than those you complain about using comparisons like that.
I don't support BASSAs use of Nazi images, but, it always amazes me how people who think they are better than them make the same mistakes...:rolleyes:

VintageKrug:

call100 makes a valid point.

Does anyone believe that we will actually see strike dates called?

A part of me says "No"...but another part says that it difficult to try to gauge what such a radical group will do. The dispute is no longer issue driven and seems to be more about emotion.

my bold

BA did offer ACAS arbitration in the October 2010 offer, see extract below. And no, CC weren't allowed to vote on it.


Unite and British Airways agree that if any employee who has been subject to disciplinary action (in connection with the current dispute) by British Airways and whose name appears in the confidential annex to this agreement (a 'Relevant Employee') decides to bring an Employment Tribunal claim for unfair dismissal, then as an alternative to Employment Tribunal litigation, that claim will ordinarily be dealt with under the Acas arbitration scheme for the resolution of unfair dismissal disputes.

British Airways and Unite agree that the Arbitrator's decision will be binding and before entering the Acas arbitration scheme they will enter into an agreement to this effect, to which the Relevant Employee will also be a party.

Any arbitration hearing will take place only after British Airways' internal appeals procedure has been exhausted. In any such case British Airways will have the right to approve or reject the arbitrator proposed.


BA did retain the right to reject the arbitrator, don't know how important that is, but I daresay that might be waived in any current negotiation, as it's all ACAS. Does the ACAS scheme result in re-employment if dismissal found to be unfair, or just financial compensation/penalty?

Further to my final sentence/question, on googling around I found this ACAS arbitration scheme Q&A Acas - Acas Arbitration Scheme Q&A

In a case of alleged unfair dismissal, what will the arbitrator award if they decide that the dismissal was unfair?
If the arbitrator finds that the dismissal was unfair, they have the power to award reinstatement or re-engagement with or without compensation. If reinstatement or re-engagement are not sought by the former employee or are not considered appropriate by the arbitrator, they can award compensation.

See also -
Will we be allowed to choose the arbitrator appointed to hear the case?
No. However, if a party feels that there are exceptional circumstances which may affect the named arbitrator's ability to be impartial, for example if they have a connection with one of the parties, contact the Acas Arbitration Section immediately. Acas arbitrators are under a duty to disclose any actual or perceived conflict of interest, and will not be appointed to hear a case if a real conflict of interest is identified.

Staff Travel
 

Saw this comment in today's Independent which made me smile...:)
Wikipedia:

An interesting statement made in regards to BA's confidence in being able to handle its schedule in the event of a strike from the Independent:

Does he not understand that it is statements such as the above that have made striking BA Cabin Crew loathed by the general public?

The business end makes dismissal of all striking crew unrealistic but it would be nice to know that I would never have to be served by an individual who shared the above mindset.

But Mr McCluskey has dismissed Mr Williams's confidence, saying: "He has no way of knowing what weird and wondrous initiatives we might take should we engage in industrial action."

Boy, does that mean they will abandon their priciples and start handing out hot towels?

I am flying BA in May and knowing Bassa, have total confidence that the flight will depart on time.

Radio 5 Live
 

Now on iplayer -

BBC iPlayer - Victoria Derbyshire: 29/03/2011

Lively debate!

Why is it that BASSA members can never simply state what it would take to end this action?? They can't seem to do it.

Instead we hear hysterics about people losing their homes, etc., etc...

If someone is losing their home during this action its because of poor financial planning, not BA.

There are times I believe that there is simply no way to negotiate with this group of individuals. They can't articulate what they are willing to compromise on and refuse to accept the fact that BA is making financial progress specifically because of managements decisions to manage.

Diplome
 

You do have Barry (56 mins) that is equal and opposite!

This looks very positive from BA:-___strike schedule

I noticed at one point Victoria didn't seem to accept that BA's disciplinary system had investigated a blocked toilet accusation, suggest that one of the passengers did it, as well as graffitying the mirror. Perhaps her interviewee would have been betterr served by raising the desecration of crew bunk beds, then Ms Derbyshire would have had more difficulty in making her suggestion.

Earlier the flat denial of BASSA reps walking out of meetings by (I think) "Nickie" was indicative of the mindset of some union members, even though it is a fact and proved to be so in a court of law.