PN, Were the seats O/W seats occupied when you boarded? They may have been briefed earlier. It's something we do to save those precious moments and get that flight out on time when turn-arounds are tight.

If not then you're quite right to notify someone, although many airlines do dismiss crew for such a breach of SOP's.

6

Not always - only for 'foreign' languages.

And PLEASE clarify my question, when you've stopped point-scoring:

........ after all YOU lot are the professionals on safety briefings.

One understands the 'leave everything behind'. But after th G-YMMM business, there were a lot of complaints that the pax were not well supported. So there's an evacuation, I leave everything behind including the drugs I need, - which are in my briefcase - and which one must NOT stop taking (eg steroids and insulin). I'm now down on the tarmac, in a country where at best my knowledge of the local language is minimal, if non-existent. The airline staff are up to their ears: I need my drugs as a matter of urgency, and there's no way to get the medical attention that's needed. And if my wallet is in my brief case (as is usually the case), I can't pay for the drugs if I could get them.

If there's enough notice, one moves drugs, wallet etc to pockets. There wasn't in the case of YMMM.

So what should I do? (Please don't say 'Die'!)

Alsacienne - that is not correct. Ryanair also have and use a recorded safety briefing in English (with a strong Irish accent!).

I don't know when exactly this is used instead of the cabin crew announcing 'live'. I have experienced both modes on FR recent flights. The English recording was used on a flight from Bari, Italy, to Stansted. Maybe someone from FR can enlighten?

Have to agree with those complaining about the quality of English not always being comprehensible. This must be a safety issue?

Couple of points.
Has anyone actually managed to decifer a safety card yet.Next time you fly study it hard .If you are not an egyptologist it does not serve its purpose ie to adequatlely explain the saftey proceedures.
And what happens when you have half the seats occupied by non english speakers????can just immagine the bedlam when a problem occurs!!!!

PLEASE could someone in the profession answer this question. I have ongoing medical problems on the soles of my feet (ie underneath where I would be in contact with the ground running away from the aircraft ...) and this is a matter I'd like resolved.

(And no, I don't wear high heeled shoes at any time.)

Alsacienne I have worked for 4 UK airlines over the years. All of them called for the removal of high heeled shoes only. The rationale being that these have the potential to damage and potentially deflate the slide on descent making it unusable for anyone else.

I have never heard of any UK airline asking pax to remove all their footwear in an evacuation. Legging it out of a downed aircraft when there would be all sorts of debris on the landing site would not be easy in barefeet and would slow the flow of evacuating pax on the ground.

Hope that helps :)

radeng I understand your concerns here as I'm a nurse so know how important this would be for you.

My advice, and it's purely the advice of LCD not any official airline protocol, is to carry what you need including your wallet in a bum bag.

Some of the larger ones can obstruct the seatbelt so if that is the case shove it in the seatpocket in front of you where it is easily grabbed in a hurry to leave. No CC would stop you carrying this down the escape slide.

Hope that helps :)

PS on a nice normal flight don't be the one who leaves their personal belongings in the seatpocket in front of you after I've just done the PA telling you not to do this.....the paperwork would be endless ;)

LCD, last night I observed the bried being given. Also, being in row 24 I had a half view of the safety briefer. More than half of the passengers around me were otherwise engaged on more urgent pursuits.

As for the missing brief the flight before, I suspect it may have been a question of distraction as Mrs PN was briefed whereas there was no brief on my side.

As for drawing attention to it at the time, the problem is "what is the SOP?"

Having flown on 6 different carriers in the last 12 months before EZY, and not always being in sight of an emergency exit, it is not easy to be aware of the right procedure. Certainly seeing an FA holding her shoulder straps was a violation.

PN SOP's on everything vary between carriers I'm afraid which can seem very confusing to the pax who might have some interest in these.

We even have an SOP on how and when to check the loo's:D I bet FR do it differently as so would BA etc etc. We are all doing it properly though.

With regard to the self help exits Pax have to be briefed on these on whatever UK carrier. However I have worked for a carrier that basically said this is the exit and there's the instructions. At EZY you are meant to get a bit more than this as we do try and emphasise the self help bit (without scareing the pax) to try and tell them they may have some responsibility here.

In the eyes of the CAA both would be correct. You decide which is a better brief safety wise..... :hmm:

You don't need to be aware of every single carriers SOP's to flag something up if you personally are concerned. I would hope that any SCCM would listen anyway and either reassure you there was no issue or if there was go and deal with it. I know I would :ok:

I would also hope that when you write to EZY re the briefing failures on your previous flight that EZY would view that as a training/first stage warning issue for that particular crew member but I cannot be sure.

6chimes is right, many airlines will dismiss on this and this is why I would prefer to deal with the crew member myself if what you described initially had happened on my flight. I can be realy scary (and so can my written assesments) but they would not loose their job and would be more focused in future.

The FA holding her shoulder straps.......what an idiot in respect of her own personal safety and yes I could go on with that as well...... If you have an airline background you will know what I mean on that :)

This is probably true for those who do not fly much, but frequent travellers will quickly learn the different ways that things are done on different airlines.

Most of my clients have different business procedures, often the only time they are aligned is when they refer to using a standard computer software application such as SAP, because it has standard procedures and that is the same as an airline using the Boeing checklist.

What is really confusing to pax is when what should be universal processes differ, such as security.

I note that Jetset lady cannot use a DFT approved washbag at MAN. :sad:

Now that sort of thing gets confusing.

Thank you very much for answering my post about evacuation and shoes. I appreciate that it might have seemed trivial but my mind is at ease as I'm having a foot flare at the moment!! And it did seem to be logical to keep footwear on if you needed to run on a rough surface or broken glass at a crash site.

THANK YOU. :ok:

Just to follow up on what lowcostdolly said, I experienced an extremely unprofessional safety briefing on FR a few years ago. The cabin crew member announcing the brief was in fits of giggles and had to pause the announcement on several occasions in order to recompose himself. The demonstrating crew members weren't much better. The passengers watched in stunned disbelief.

On disembarkation, I asked to speak to the captain to report the unprofessional behaviour of his crew to him directly. I was refused permission to speak to him. Since the aircraft's commander wasn't interested, when I got home I decided to write directly to the airline's chief executive explaining exactly what had happened. I received a letter by return within two days stating that the cabin crew on that flight would be 'disciplined'. I don't know if that means dismissed, but if they were fired they deserved it, I regret to say.

So yes, the airlines do take breaches of safety regulations seriously, even if that means going further up the chain to get your complaint noticed.

Though on the flip side I heard a similar safety brief on one of the legacy carriers.
It turned out that the cc member was making her very first safety announcement to a full flight, the giggles were nervousness.


Though we'll never know did you affect someones career who was only trying to learn - they all have to you know!

radeng - a very good point. Whilst not needing close medical support (yet!) I do need to keep migraine medication with me at all times and they are small. I adopted this policy some years ago:-

For Long Haul, I only loosen my shoes once established in the cruise and resecure them as soon as we start the let down. If I'm in a sleep suit, that also is for cruise only. On SH (up to 2 hours) I never loosen my shoe laces and often keep my jacket close, rather than in the locker.

Over the years, I have used various ways to keep the following items close to me during climb and descent: Passport; Wallet; Cell phone; Medication. Depending on duration of flight and class of travel these have been/are used occasionally in combination:

• 'Cargo trousers' with extra pockets on the legs.
• Very light weight jacket with many pockets, as used by photographers. There are now a plethora of small zipped/velcro bags for pocket digital cameras. They hold a lot of stuff and often have belt loops, come in many shapes and sizes and are cheap.
• Bum bags of various types. On evac this would be worn to the front.
• Slim bags sold for use on the beach that have a shoulder strap. During climb/descent it has been around my neck, resting in front. Being slim I hope it would not get in the way. Don't use this now. Some are transparent.
• Small grab bag, similar to a flat wash bag in size. This goes through security in my hand case and is then removed when I put the bag up/under. I have a selection of small bags bought over the years! At various times they have also held CD Walkman (now iPod) and my NC headphones. These extra items could be chucked out - IF enough warning.
• The smallest and simplest I use is a child's pencil case. I have one that is of transparent plastic which helps during full security search. The thought is that I could slip the slim flat case inside my shirt before evac.

I have not yet had to make an emergency evac but it is my plan to take these items with me - even if I transfer some of them to pockets at the time. Naturally, the situation will drive With the zero warning of G-YMMM I hope that I would simply grab the slim case and go. But, who knows what I will do if faced with the situation? I can only hope that planning, careful choice of seat row and counting rows will pay off.

The real problem with middle age is that - I diligently count the rows and then, can't remember how many rows I counted ...:sad:

Westlakes makes a good point here re CC having to learn. In training we get the gospel according to which ever airline and then we enter the real world dealing with pax.

I don't know what really happened on PN's flight re the overwing briefing but his latest post alludes to the CC being distracted.

At EZY the overwings are manned on boarding by the CC3. This is the position our newbies initially work in yet it can be one of the most stressful areas on the plane. After the initial stampede to get to these seats we often have to seperate pax from their handluggage quite assertively to comply with CAA regs. At some airports pax seem to squeeze their furniture into what passes for hand luggage and this gets past all gate channels somehow. It is then the poor newbie that gets landed with either having to find somewhere to stow this or telling the pax its going to be hold loaded which never goes down well. In between all this she has to be aware and may actually have to recall from training what passes for an able bodied pax permitted to sit there. She may even have to move someone and on top of all that she has to brief up to 12 pax all before push back.

Being able to do all this seemlessly comes with practice and experience, something like most proffesions you only achieve on the job.

I don't know if the CC in question on PN's flight was a newbie and I doubt he does either. Pax do not see the bigger picture in these cases and there is no reason why you should.

The SCCM though would know which is why it should be flagged up at the time if something does not appear right to any pax. If what was observed here was down to inexperience I would give some constructive feedback to the newbie and if it was the first of a 4 sector day go and help her at the overwings to guide her. If however the crew member was experienced I would kick their butt verbally and depending on their response to this they might even get a written assesment which would go to a CC manager.

Trouble is CC managers in any airline are renowned for not seeing the bigger picture either when they should. That can have serious consequences for any CC which may not always be deserved.

LCD
:ok::D:D:D:D:D

6

I have now fired off my 'complaints' or comments to Easyjet. In the process I also checked my rights and discovered that they had not complied with late-boarding rules.

At Paphos, once we got airside, we discovered that our flight had been delayed by 2 hr 35 min; in fcat it went off chocks 2 hr 50 min late.

There were no airport staff airside except for catering personnel. There was no Easyjet rep to explain our rights to free refreshments. The delay was due to crewing problems at Luton; the captain had had to be driven from Gatwick.

Clearly the delay was know for several hours but no attempt was made to inform or compensate passengers except for the delay message on the departures screen. :(

PN

I thought you might find the extract below from the EU directive useful:

1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight
to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure:

(b) for three hours or more in the case of all intra-Community
flights of more than 1 500 kilometres and of all other
flights between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres

I believe Paphos is between 1,500 and 3,500 km from London and the UK and Cyprus are both EC members.

Ah F3G, quite right. The source I first looked at said 2 hours and I didn't spot the distance change to 3 hours. In this case EJ seemed to just escape censure at 2 hr 50 min but that is not good PR.

With no rep, albeit Servisair, they took it on chance that the flight would not exceed the magic 3 hours.

PN I have flown for EZY for a number of years. The only company employed reps I have ever known them have airside are the Pilots and CC. This is the reality in loco I'm afraid. It's us that do the PR :ok:

I'm assuming it was the Gatwick based Captain that gave you the explanation of why the flight was delayed once you had boarded. In fact I would lay money on that.

I doubt that servisair, even if they had been around, would have informed you of this even if they knew. Instead you would have got that old chestnut used by every airline "it's the late arrival of the inbound aircraft". I really hate that one :ugh:

It sounds to me if servisair did what they are meant to and nothing more. Unfortunately EZY only pay them to do this. They posted the delay on the boards and I assume these were updated re the ETD if necessary. They would not issue vouchers because you were not entitled to them......sorry!

You will get a response from one of our "Customer Services Champions" no doubt saying what I just have and reassuring you your comments will be passed to servisair.....

If you ever want to fly with us again I hope you have a better experience :)

I once boarded a DanDare flight from Inverness at 8am en route London.

We boarded on time and no dramas except we were rather surprised to find that the aircraft was already half full as it was actually the 7am Glasgow flight as the London one had gone tech.

'We' got airborne on time but of course had to drop off our Glasgow pax so we would arrive in London about 30-40 minutes late.

However the Captain, having made the usual apology, then announced that the bar would be open and free. 8am! However there were a number of red neck oil workers on board and the whiskies were soon flowing.

:D:ok:
You are great F3G!
I fly roughly the same number of sectors per years as you do but I have a less variety of airlines, so safety briefing is pretty much the same.
Just last Tuesday I took a Golden Air Saab 340 from Bromma to Trollhätan (and return) and the whole safety briefing was in Swedish.
On the outbound leg the Flight Attendant come and briefed me in English (I was sitting on the emergency exit).
On the return flight I did not get any English briefing.
I then took the last Malmö Aviation flight of the day to Malmö and the briefing was in Swedish too (again no English briefing).
However before landing the Captain alerted the crew with a perfect:"Cabin Crew prepare for landing" :}

Ciao
Ulxima

west lakes and lowcostdolly: I do take your point about cabin crew learning on the job and the need for understanding, but I assure you what I experienced was altogether different. The flight attendants on that flight were not remotely interested in delivering anything like a professional-standard briefing. My brother is a captain at FR and I spoke to him about this. I am not the complaining type, I only did it because I felt it was important that someone address the matter with the staff involved in the interests of safety.

This weekend I flew with FR from FKB to STN on Friday 19 Feb and returned on Sunday 21 Feb.

There were five members of cabin crew on each occasion. On both flights the English recorded announcement was used. No foreign language announcement was made (even taped) for the Safety Briefing, despite the majority of passengers being French and German youngsters (half term and school trips).

Announcements were made after pushback on both occasions.

On the return leg, I was seated in row 30 and the demonstration was not clearly visible being at approx row 9 in the cabin.

The ONLY foreign language announcement was on the return leg for scratchcards!!!!

BMI Baby(sitting)
 

Was on a BMI Baby domestic flight a few years back. Decided to quietly and unobtrusively get on with reading my book on the otherwise empty front row whilst the safety demo was given. At the end of the demo the steward at the front sat next to me and highlighted the fact that I hadn't paid close attention to the demo. As he was clearly on a role, I didn't attempt to interject and let him continue with then repeating the whole thing for my personal benefit. I started to feel liek one of the crew when he got to the end of the standard demo and started to tell me how to open the main door and how the slide operated - along with some other non-standard bits and bobs.

Anyway, since that day I've felt all safety briefings to be inadequate by comparison. In fact, I'm thinking of asking the pilot to give me a briefing on how to fly the plane next time...

Given what has happened in the last three domestic flights I took in Sweden I believe you are right.

Ciao,
Ulxima

Tightslot you are indeed correct......as always :ok:

What about Swiss aircraft, then? :}

Air Malta brief (using video) in English, which is interesting as it is not the main spoken language of the country.

Not quite... In my British airline on some flights it would be impossible to find enough English speaking passengers. Therefore, we brief in other languages (all of my colleagues are at the very least bi-lingual) or make ourselves understood in some way. (Illustrations on the safety card / self help exit panels are useful).

English is an official language of Malta and is also widely spoken.

PN

However, it is not classed as the national language of the Maltese islands, which has been Malti since the middle 1930s and before that Italian.

So an interesting anomaly in that an airline chooses a language which is not the main spoken tongue of it's country.

At a practical level, I agree most Maltese are at least fluent in English and some groups, such as the 'Tal Pepe' speak English as a preference.

I was interested to observe, on a BA A321 flight from MAN to LHR a few weeks ago, the person sitting next to me, a BA B767 captain in uniform, pay full attention to the briefing and afterwards study the safety card. And I didn't get the impression that he was just trying to set an example for the rest of us!

One thing that often puzzles me, is that we are told to check where our nearest exits are, but never told the row numbers for the overwing exits. Most of us can remember the row we are sitting in, and many could do the sums necessary to work out how many rows to count on our way to the exit.

It's a fair point Dairyground but my assumption is that - once you reach an exit row - you will KNOW it is the exit!!! The focus of everybody will be to that point, whether you are standing, crawling or have arrived via seat surfing, the exit will be obvious. I think ...!

Dairyground, your Boeing captain was not intimitely knowledgeable of the Airbus, of course he would read the safety brief the same was as I would.

As for seat numbers, you give the great travelling public far too much credence for mathematical ability in this age of calculators and automatic tills.

How many times have you boarded an aircraft at the tail but had to disembark at the front? On several occasions I have had passengers barge their way past me to get to the tail despite being told it is closed.

In an emergency these passengers will not act rationally but head for where THEY think the nearest exit is and you can be pretty sure that th eone in the row in front of the overwing will head forward and one a couple of row back may go either way. :confused:

PN I agree. When I'm paxing I always count the rows but whether I would remember or could use this info in a smoke filled cabin where all the SLF who had failed to count them or even listen to the demo were panicking I don't know. There but for the grace of god I have never been in this situation.

I think on this forum the vast majority of pax do think about their own and others safety. Most pay attention to the safety brief. Unfortunately the vast majority of the travelling public do not. Even if we told them the exit row numbers many would not even register this info because they are too busy reading books, listening to Ipods etc in fact anything but the safety brief :=

On the Airbus (i've no idea re the Boeing) the emergency exits are illuminated on take off/landing so even if there was an incident at this time you would be able to find them. Have a look next time you fly on one......they are activated when the landing gear is deployed. In addition the floor lighting/photoluminescent strip would activate showing the exits.

That little sentence which passes most pax by about the nearest usable exit being behind you is good advice but very few ever look especially those sitting near the front because they think they will be able to leg it out the front door. That may not be the case if there is a fire or the slide fails to deploy......

You don't know how anyone is going to react, when faced with life threatening events.

I know, I've been there.

With apologies to lowcostdolly and her colleagues, it's been some flights since I paid full attention to the safety briefing. It is a "show" I have seen before and on the third leg of the day I am less capable to bring up the concentration to watch attentively. However, I keep one ear open for airplane specific instructions (lifevest or seatcushion) and review the safety card.

Frequent flyers do know most of the drill and unless airlines start using a completely new model of belt-buckle, they'll know how to strap in and out. I think politeness to crew and new fliers requires that one shuts up to allow others to pay attention.

re Tightslot post #66
 

From a PAX:

Yes that is my recent experience. Flew Swissair MAN-FCO via Zurich.

On the way out, briefings were in English and German. In fact on the 2nd leg from Zurich, a 3rd briefing was played in Japanese (off-tape of course). Looking round the cabin, there were indeed upwards of 30 Japanese tourists on board. I think the fact that an airline can figure this from the bookings and add an extra briefing language as appropriate is pretty cool.

On the way back, however, the leg from Zurich-MAN was a sub-contracted aircraft. A Scandinavian aircraft I think (not SAS). The briefing there was to hit the button (with crew demo of course) and was only delivered in English. How that fits in with a Scandinavian plane contracted by a Swiss operator I'm not sure?

Suffice to say as a PAX I think the safety briefing is important. I know many ignore it. On the better flights I have seen CC ask people to put their paper down and actually listen - good on you. Usually I make sure I get eye contact with a CC during the briefing to at least show that someone is listening. Despite the fact that us PAX have all flown a million times and apparently 'know better', I think survivability if it 'hits the fan' might be improved if people were to take it a little more seriously. In a plane with 200 on board, even a 1% improvement would mean 2 more would get through.

:)