Respect? My old Dad once told me that respect had to be earned, never expected and if you have to buy it then it probably wasn't worth having...

Look up 'respect' in the Dictionary and you'll find words like, admire, esteem, value and appreciate... these are concepts which are rooted in the passage of time - none of which have anything to do with the provision of a service ie a flight from A to B, in complete safety, on time or within a resonable time-frame, preferably with your bags, and in a degree of comfort commensurate with what the customer has paid. It's a contract in a competitive market and like anything else in a market, good deals and bad deals are inherent in the system.

Maybe Xeque means getting the service for which you have paid? In over 20 years of regularly flying as pax on hundreds of flights I have to say I can barely remember more than a handful - usually the very bad, less often the very good... on none of them did I endure the awful lifetime experiences apparently born so stoically by Xeque... and the other 95%+ of those flights fall into the dull, boring, routine category which is precisely the way I like them and is by far the best accolade any airline could want.

Spiney,

I too have been flying regularly for over 20 years - nearly 30, actually. I too can count the really bad flights - America West for two of them, American Airlines for three more, United Express for losing bags 12 times in 13 flights, and so on. And BA, for flights where the problems were ground staff, the apologies profuse, and the monetary compensation appearing rapidly. British Caledonian, whose bubble of complacency and self satisfaction was impossible to puncture after probably the worst transatlantic flight of my career. If ever there was an airline I was happy to see go under, BCal was the one......the other was Empire Air in New York state. LH, I found uniformally poor in their attitude to customer service.

And then the Norwegian crew on a SAS flight to Copenhagen were memorable for their assumption:

'Please may I have a Gamel Dansk?'

After a long period away

'We are sorry, we do not have any Gamel Dansk. Anyway, Englishmen do not drink Gamel Dansk!'

There seems to be one common denominator in all your bad flights.....:ugh:

Respect....

Now THAT is a funny concept. I am 37 years old. I am an American living in the UK. I can remember a time when flying WAS still a special occasion. Meals and drinks on board were free, baggage allowances were much more generous than they are now, cabin crew wore the "stewardess" badge with honor, and people were generally much more respectful.

Airfares were also much higher per capita.

Unfortunately, we now live in a pay as you go generation. The basic ticket price is cheap. Often the taxi fare to the airport is higher. You wanna take a bag? Pay for it. You wanna drink on bord? Something to eat? Pay for it. The list goes on and on. This is what todays customer wants. Unfortunately, we also now live in a society that doesnt even allow us to discipline our kids without the fear of prosecution. People in general have less manners and respect than 20 years ago.

Nobody has any sense of self accountability anymore. Late to the airport? Well berate the poor guy or gal behind the check in counter. The louser you scream the better chance you have to get on. If he or she kicks off back at you? well sue the airline for victimisation! Kick off if you have 25 kgs of bags! Kick off if you didnt read the conditions on your ticket. Kick off if you cant follow simple instructions at Security!

Kick off! It's OK. We are just airport workers here to be abused by you!



Respect works bothways mate!

If you think the fares are bad now then just wait a while. Most of the big, financially secure airlines will have long forward bought fuel contracts still running, fuel bought when crude was $60.00 for example. Smaller companies are usually not so lucky as they buy less bulk and can't afford the longer contracts so they are already paying more for their fuel and will be the first to be hit by the $119.00 per barrel, fares are likely to go up on the LCCs before the major carriers. Eventually the major carriers will reach the end of their forward bought contracts, yes they will negotiate new ones but you can still expect some seriously big fare increases.:sad:

Respect to the passengers...
Okay I will go for that, however lets have some back.

Pax that are not only Rude but offensive in the extreme to Cabin Crew is more common than you think.
How many take the time to watch the Safety Breifing, well you know it off by heart, but it does show a little respect ,as well as being important.

Please and Thankyou are almost never heard.

Obey the rules, No smoking, don't turn on your phone/PC etc on during Take off and Landing.

Don't question the flight crews decisions, they are highly trained. Case in point, last year (I think, its on pprune) a BA crew did a go around at MAN, a lady pax rang the police during said go around and accused the pilots of being drunk! Yes the police did get involved.

I know that you, the general public knows far more about flying an aircraft than I do, I only studyied for several years, took many exams and now fly a Boeing 737. Where you just get to fly once a year, watch Air Crash Investigation and read the Daily Mail. When you start to show a bit of respect for us crew, then maybe you will get some back in return.

ford cortina.

I find that simple manners like saying 'hello' to the CC and 'how are you?' on boarding - plus listenening to the safety briefing, even though I know it by heart - seems to work wonders on the way they treat you in return. Not to listen is to the briefing is at best impolite. I always thank the cabin crew on leaving, usually shake hands, and either thank the flight crew or if the cockpit door is still shut, request the CC to do so on my behalf. When I fly with CC that recognise me because I've flown with them before, I really seem to get the red carpet treatment, although BA CC are, I find very good anyway. But maybe it's because I'm 61 and thus had a somewhat old fashioned upbringing by today's standards. When a child, on arriving at a railway terminal station, you thanked the driver - especially if it was murky foggy day with poor visibility. That also often got you an invite onto the footplate - proof that good manners had their own reward.

The lack of manners is another one of the less desirable results of modern society: possibly too much attention to the 'save time, make a buck approach'.

radeng, thankyou very much, you are too kind.

Unfortunately there is a mind-set in some people that once they have bought their ticket they have bought you too. This strange attitude knows no boundries when it comes to the financial status of the pax but is almost always found in that rather nasty, jumped up bunch of people who were not taught good manners, don't aspire to them, always have plenty to say for themselves and lose it when it comes to behaving like a Lady or a Gentleman, as my father would have said, "They lack breeding"!

Radeng, slight thread creep, funny you should mention thanking the train driver at the terminus. I can remember my old headmaster saying that at the end of his journey, he always went to the drivers cab (steam train!) thanked him and gave him his newspaper!

If it's any consolation, at 37 years of age I do exactly the same - good manners gets good service, it's always my number one rule - I look pleased to see the cabin crew on my weekly BA CityFlyer flights, and they in turn look pleased to serve me - it's nice, and I wish everyone was the same :ok:

A friend of mine once said, "you get what you give." A bit of what should be normal human dealing (eg: courtesy, humour, etc) generally results in the same returned. I don't actually recall ever having an airline employee being rude or insulting. Rarely, some have been offhand, or impatient, or a bit "formal".
What amazes me is that with the way the airlines often treat their staff, rude or offhand behaviour isn't the norm rather than the exception.
I don't assume for a second that it's particularly easy doing the job they do, but most of them do it cheerfully. Even when they're tired, which is probably fairly often.
Air travel has definitely become a bit less pleasant over the years, particularly in regard to cramped conditions. Personally I'd rather a bit more was spent on a well designed seat than on inflight entertainment, for example, but according to the airline PR folk, cheap tickets and multi channel entertainment etc is what the customer wants. If I want a decent seat, then maybe I'll save for it. Worth doing on a longer flight.
But to say it's one of the most awful experiences you can go through makes me think you've had a fairly sheltered life, you poor thing.

More drift of location but not of subject matter
Gosh - Thanking the engine driver!!!! Yes, I remember that and the Conductor too if you could.

Now, if the platform exit takes me past the cab, I will often raise my hand in thanks as I go by. Bus drivers too. I don't often take them but, a couple of weeks ago, having dropped the car for service, I took a bus into my town centre and he dealt so well with a problem for one of his regulars. It was lovely to see him greet each OAP as they got on.

Breeding? A declining industry.

radeng, it's not just limited to you. There are plenty of us 'young uns' who have also been instilled with some of the common courtesy. It makes sense. I know what you mean about getting the red carpet treatment for being courteous.

Sadly I have to admit that occasionally I fall asleep even before the safety briefing starts, and no-one bothers to wake me up. The other day I was dead to the world the minute I strapped in and only woke up as the a/c accelerated down the runway. It's not meant to be offensive. If anything, I feel safe with the crew and their competence.

:rolleyes:

S.

Just to echo the theme of some of the previous posts, it's nice to be nice.

The old saying "Do unto others that which you would have them do unto you" is well worth adhering to as it works both ways.

On a recent IAH-EWR flight I witnessed the spectacle of an obnoxious passenger on his cellphone five minutes after the third announcement from the cockpit to turn them off as it was interfering with comms & after the cabin crew pacing the aisle reminding everyone. The stewardess saw him on the phone & asked him three times to turn it off otherwise the flight could not proceed. He was verbally abusive and shouted that he hadn't heard any announcements the stewardess was "carefully" polite to him, but he called her supervisor and accused her of being verbally abusive to him and tried to drop her in it big time.

Fortunately, all had been seen by the supervisor & she wasn't hauled over the coals. This tiny flight attendant was particularly nice & polite to him all flight, and just by being nice and polite she made the big hulking guy look two foot tall by the time we landed at EWR.

Gaun Yersel Doll :ok::ok::ok:

On an average week I will carry around 3500 passengers.

On average I get perhaps 1 person every 2 weeks who is obnoxious, rude or offensive to the cabin crew: sometimes its just a group of kids, or guys, who are out for a good time and are loud rather than rude.

So 1 in 7000 is a really small percentage; however, because they stand out they generate more interest than the remainder who get on, enjoy the flight, and get off with a mutual "thank you".

The nasty passenger doesn't just make it unpleasant for the crew though; it has a subsidiary effect on their fellow travellers which is often overlooked.

Xeque,

Your post has probably got the most generalisations per column inch than any I've seen to date. I've just booked a flight to Ireland, for two - £4.04 return, including charges and taxes, £4 of which is the debit card payment fee. This is for a journey of 206 miles each way, which works out at less than half a penny a mile each - 1% of the cost of driving.

I make sure that I understand what is being offered, and act accordingly. When I travel on a 'full service' airline, I expect some courtesy - and, because I refuse to get irritated by the experience and turn up a little early - I cannot remember a time when I was treated anywhere close to what you have described, and I travel more than most (though less than some on this forum).

For my four quid flight, I shall turn up, get on and shut up. Thanks to the wonders of online check in the first airline person I expect to have to interact with will be at the boarding gate, the first airport person will be security (and, as it's not the BAA I won't be biting my lip during that experience!). I don't want to be fed (the journey length is less than my one way commute) so it suits me fine.

As to your objection to being called SLF ... talk about a thin skin!

Llademos
 

You're saying that you have booked 2 of you to Ireland for £0.04p in total?? Is there a fuel surcharge involved here or are the two of you expected to flap your arms a lot?

People: I've been given a lot of stick for what I said in this particular thread.

Basically my beef is not particularly what people say and do to me but with what I hear being said and done to others.

The worst offenders are security staff. I realise it's a sh1tty job and no-one other than someone with the hide of a buffalo would take it on. But having taken the job these people should bear in mind who is paying their salaries. It's us - the passengers because if there were no passengers there would be no air transport industry and if there was no air transport industry then 99% of you would be back on the dole lines.

I have seen (Stansted) an elderly lady reduced to tears by the uncaring bunch of bums who were working the X-ray machines that morning. It was sheer bullying.

I have seen (again Stansted) a Spanish passenger with virtually no English totally rubbished by a female security operative because he had his toilet bag with him with half used bottles of shampoo, after shave and deodorant. She even took the triple blade from his razor.

I came through Heathrow (T3) last February where a dayglow jacket 'lurch' leaned against a barrier bellowing 'git yer shoes orf 'ere'. Charming.

There was an absolutely amazing story a month or so ago when another foreign passenger had 3 jars of Colemans mustard confiscated. Like something out of an old Goon Show - 'exploding mustard' Jeez!!

I flew on 'Ruinair' to Newquay around Christmas last year. 3 cabin crew - a boy with a strange hair style, one girl who looked frightened to death and the senior girl who was 5 foot nothing in her socks. The senior girl ran the safety briefing. I know that lots of passengers who have heard the safety briefing dozens of time before tend to let it pass by but this F/A zeroed in on one unfortunate passenger who happened to be looking out the window and (not once but 3 times) shouted 'Excuse me! I'm talking here!' Again - charming.

I know passengers can be very, very aggressive and rude. I've witnessed it many times but you have to ask yourself if the environment the airports greet us with and the airlines provide during the flight isn't a major contributing factor here.

Maybe I am a little thin-skinned Llademos but it's me (and others like me) who are paying. It might be a reduced fare but that's what they asked me to pay so I paid it. What's wrong with that?

And Yes. I come from an age where to travel was a pleasure. The trouble now is that there are a couple of generations who know no better and cannot compare. Thank God for old age!!

These days our lives are subjected to mindless directives from faceless beurocrats (forgive the spelling) in 'elf n safety, telephone drones asking us to press zillions of options to get to speak to the person you need when a simple human operator could put you straight through. What I am saying is that most of our lives seem to be influenced negatively on a massive scale and we (crew/SLF etc.) have to put up with it. No longer is a happy customer the primary objective that ensures a company will survive and prosper, we are all now servants to our banks, governments and every other large organisition that we need to live our lives as we wish. So when we do actually meet a person involved in customer service we tend to vent our entire frustration with the 'system' towards them. Society is generally considered to be an unfriendly, uncaring and violent place these days and most of us are unhappy with the 'break down' of society. Hence customers are already prepared to do battle over any dissatisfaction before it has already happened.

Off my soap box now :D

Smile, we are all people just trying to get on with life, regardless of being SLF or the employee.

6

6Chimes

Well said. :ok: