Quite correct they don't have busines class, just think if they pack all the screamin kids down the back with their parents who decided to have kids and travel with them, it would make the front of the plane more relaxing for those pax who do not have kids or decide not to travel with kids.

I think you need your head examining mate.

This is low cost flying you are talking about, attracting the type of business traveller who thinks its great to get a meal deal for 75p, because of stock rotation requirements.

Get real.

If you want real service, you have to pay for it, e.g. in the last 3 weeks I have spent 3K on

10 x short haul segments in C
4 x long haul segments in F

This buys a whole lot service more than just decent seats, but you do tend (not always) to get a quieter experience as a fringe benefit.

As for Ryanair, its an aerial bus, but don't knock it for those who on a limited budget.

Point taken F3G

However, would like it to apply in all airlines, King Herrod was nothing compared to me when it comes to screamin kids lol.

Maybe FR could turn it round and charge extra for sitting in a kids free zone.

Flying in business/1st doen't exclude you from minors because they are entitled to fly in this class too.

Now defunct airline Highland Express which had one 747 and flew PIK-EWR had kids free areas on their flights, maybe thats why they went bust lol.

Parents hit back
 

Right then, MOL.

If, for all of the reasons already stated in this thread, the safety of our children, other passengers, cabin crew and aircrew really means this little to you (and folks you can append any of the zillions of other FR issues here), this is what any parent displeased with the latest wheeze might do:

If, say, one was unable to get a seat next to one's children, one might refuse to sit down. Naturally, were anyone to take such a step (and goodness knows I'm not inciting anyone to do so...) it would be entertaining to make sure that the children join in. Oh and don't forget that it would be foolish to make too much protest until the doors are shut.

By the time such disruptive pax were seated or even off the aircraft, baggage unloaded... well, goodness, the flight will have missed its slot, with the usual knock-on effect for the rest of the day.

I wonder how much that costs?

Gosh, it would probably only take one or two families a day to do that to make some Irish eyes stop smiling. It may smart a little, MOL, but hey, you're a big boy and you can take it.

It could even turn into a sport.

If, like me, you happen to have sympathy for the FR staff and hate to give them a headache, comfort yourself with the thought that it was MOL wot started it.

As for King Herod and the other grumpy goats here who have forgotten that they were also children once and were, in their turn, tolerated; my children and I will be sure to sit behind you ... and we'll sing 9,999 Green Bottles. Slowly. With recounts.

Some interesting comments about business travel and low cost airlines.

We recently engaged a London based company on a short term consultancy contract. The first two people turned up at our offices a day late because they'd had some kind of problem with Easy Jet at Luton (a cancellation I believe) I didn't know at the time they were using EZ but these things do happen so I let it go. Two days later two more consultants actually missed their flight at Luton and ended up on the evening flight also arriving in the office a day late. Under the circumstances I terminated the contract as it was very short term but I felt the company was a bit unprofessional because they'd used LC airlines along with sending staff on very early morning flights simply to save one night in a hotel. The contract also provided a sufficient profit margin for them to use proper airlines

Business travellers who use LC airlines are taking a risk because if you experience a problem (whether your fault or the airline's) then your options are extremely limited. If you're at 'Frankfurt' Hahn or Baden Karlsruhe and you've just missed your flight to London you can't simply visit the plethora of airline kiosks and just whip out your credit card and say 'next flight to London please' in the same way you could at the real Frankfurt Main airport or London Heathrow....

Most of the places I visit are not served by LC airlines but even if they were I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, in anycase my organisation specifically prohibits us from using LCC.

Smith

I don't remember the last time I travelled in Business Class where young children were present, that isn't to say that they were not there it's just that most parents are able to control their children by keeping them occupied. Travelling with children over the age of 3 should not really be a problem as they can be occupied, under 3 is more difficult and should you come across parents with such children instead of scowling at them or suggesting a kind of 'airline apartheid' you should try to help them, like most people do. Often, people travelling with young children are doing it out of necessity and not through choice.

The only time I do get annoyed is when older children run amok in the cabin because their parents can't be bothered to control them, though the Cabin Crew are normally good at dealing with such problems.

My point entirely. If you want "them and us", pay for it. If you want to go budget, do it with your eyes open.

wildweeble
 

And I will be sure to accidently spill my tomato juice on the singing minor on the way past.

I have kids of my own (all be it grown up) but when I go on vacation I book into kids free hotels, my hols start when I get to the airport so why not kids free flights. If its good enough for the hotels its good enough for the airlines.

I have done my bit bringing up kids and just like to relax. I agree with the other poster on parents not controlling their children, but there's nothing you can do with a small baby teething to stop them screaming the house down.

After all, mother nature intended a child's wails to be annoying and irritating so as the PARENTS are alerted to and then can attend to their children's needs.

Sorry to be such a moan, I actually really love kids ........... but I could never eat a whole one!!!

etc etc
Wildweeble - Ryanair is not for you. Find another way to travel.

RYR isn't always the cheapest - see my past posts demonstrating what happens when one prices a real trip. Even if they are usually cheaper than BA, they're not always cheaper than EZY.

What you have to ask yourself is: Take the RYR ticket price. Add on the extras that you have to pay (including, for me, the extra cost and time of just getting to STN or wherever to start off with). Then look at the difference from BA. Then ask yourself whether the better quality service is worth the extra price.

As between £29 and £307, I would probably have either made the same decision as you, or not gone on the trip. But when the BA/RYR difference is £20, £30 or £40, those extra charges matter.

Of course, I would do the same thing. We chose to fly with BA to Madrid rather than easyJet becasue BA were cheaper. We booked our tickets quite close to departure time. Close meaning a few months. easyJet was around £80 more expensive. As Stansted is only 15/20 minutes from my house, when flying within Europe the airlines we look at first are Ryanair/easyJet, simply becasue STN is so close. If the price is a lot cheaper, and times are better then we fly from LHR/LGW. I would probably even pay a higher price just so we wouldn't have to go near LTN! Lol.

What if everybody purchases the £2 "priority boarding" ticket? :rolleyes:
(I'll be laughing my :mad: off!) ---> and so will MOL!!!

Can I just say it happens regularly, especially during school holidays, that young children travel in business class, at least in my airline. Often we have "UM" that is unaccompanied minors too.

Amazingly in my flying career I only had problems with kids, in any class, whose parents were on board too. When kids travel alone they're usually very well behaved, or much easier to control. I have a fridge full of drawings made for me by UMs, I keep them dearly.

One thing that irritates me is when for example a family of 3 books mother and kid in C class and the father in Y. They are hoping for an extra upgrade for free once on board...........sorry it doesn't work with me!!! The alternative could be to send the kid to the back ;)

As for kids screaming in C class, only once I had to move the family affected to the rear of the aircraft as this kid was possessed!! He was really disturbing everybody and after throwing up on of our premier card holders and the parents refusing to clear up, I decided that enough was enough!

And talking about FR not liking families....my little screamer will arrive in about 4 months but from a selfish point of view I couldn't be bothered what FR like or want, really, as today I received the news that a very good italian carrier (no F3G,not AZ!!!;) ) is starting flights between my city and London, that means BYE BYE FR!!! Hopefully I'll never see you again!!! YIIIIIPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!:E :D

Hi FBW

I received the news that a very good italian carrier (no F3G,not AZ!!! ) is starting flights between my city and London, that means BYE BYE FR!!!

Do you mean Meridiana?

They do great sandwiches :O :O

No honey! Although I love their sandwiches! AP will start flying to my city although apparently a "partner carrier" will operate the flight with an ARJ70, so could be anybody.......but with the Lufthansa name attached to their brand I have never had any problem with AP, and to top it up their CRJ900 are absolutely stunning and a real pleasure to fly on. The crew have always been so professional and so kind too, which does make a difference for me (working in the same business you develop a critical approach, in good and bad!!)

And....silly me I have just found out that BMI fly to PMO from LHR so I now know how I am going to take my little bundle of screams on holiday next year......you see 2007 will be a MOL free year for me! :ok:

FBW

PS: I agree entirely with what you've been saying in this thread and I do wish I could have some of those people who think FR customer service is the best on one of my flights...there's a difference between feeling hassled and having to stick with it or having people around you who will try to take the hassle away from you. Sometimes you pay more for it but not always, you just have to be smart and find the best deal! :ok:

Oh for an alternative
 

Ah, CARR30, I'd love to fly anyone but FR; unfortunately they're the only lot doing STN/LIG - the route I use the most. Buzz used to do it, bless 'em. They were lovely. I wish someone else would have a crack at that route!
My issue is not with low cost airlines per se, but with the customer-hating attitude of MOL. And yes, like a lot of people I have particular concerns when this mindset begins to impinge on safety - the case in point here being the possible separation of children and parents onboard.
I drive a couple of times a month from London to Glasgow and back. It costs me £38 per 409 miles and I do it in five and a half hours. That's only an hour longer, door to door, than flying and of course I have my car with me in Glasgow.
I'd happily drive the 450 miles to Limoges, but cannot take my car via the tunnel due to the silly LPG regulations. The ferry costs a bucket and adds about two hours extra.
All suggestions on how to do London Limoges without using FR and in reasonable time and cost appreciated.
A final thought: Recently at the FR ticket desk at STN, as I was paying for my hold luggage (ha!), I told the glum-looking FR staff that although I was sure that they themselves were lovely people, I hated Ryan Air and MOL in particular. "So do we!" they chorused and, for the first time, looked cheerful.

Wildweeble
You do not have to fly Ryanair. You could try Flybe Southampton / Limoges or else buy a diesel car. You hate Ryanair so much but to save a few pence on fuel or an extra hour or so on the channnel crossing you betray your principles and supposedly your safety.
The truth is that Ryanair is a bargain, is convenient, not that bad and has given thousands of us a chance to enjoy cheap sejours in our French second homes.
I'd find it highly amusing if the Stansted/Limoges route was axed the way that Clermont Ferrand was, except for the fact the I have a house in Haute Vienne and know full well that a 900 mile round trip by car is not something for the weekend.

back on track
 

I'll certainly try Flybe, thanks. Perhaps I haven't made my point entirely clear. The issue under discussion here is priority board for families with young children. The point was raised that without priority boarding, it is possible, probable even, that parents and young children will be separated onboard. This is unequivocably a safety issue - and for all of the reasons expounded by others here. It is clear that FR really hasn't thought this one through properly. And it hasn't happened YET (pace my principles). But we are told it will.

As for other FR safety issues, I'm kept well informed by a friend who is an FR captain and by the general debate. If I thought it was unsafe to fly FR at present, I simply wouldn't - same as I tend not to lay down on the railway tracks when the express is due.

But I do have concerns over the corrosive nature of the FR management mindset. Yes, I can choose to be treated like scum in return for a low fare, and I'm perfectly entitled to resent it. But when that mindset has a palpable relationship to a safety issue, we should all be concerned.

I use FR for business trips. It serves some routes that are convenient to me and is as punctual as any other. When I go to Ayrshire, Scotland, it is more convenient to take FR to Prestwick than others to Glasgow.

But I wish those above would stop posting about low cost. I usually book on the day, or the day before. And then the fares are just what you would pay with a mainstream carrier. For example Bristol to Dublin, one-way, was a £150 walk-up fare on a 30-minute sector. OK, I was in Devon, I suddenly got the call to be in Dublin next day. And I paid it.

What I do object to, as Ryanair's High Fares passenger (and looking at their profits I suspect there are many of us) is you get the same offhand service as all others. Now I know we can't be singled out for less-rude treatment by the cabin crew (actually some of their crew bases are much better than others; well done all at PIK, unfortunately the base across the Irish Sea seems to be the one that lets the side down so often). But even when you pay those high fares, should the flight is canx due to bad weather, you just try the FR route for getting a refund of your £300 or so. Unbelievable. We haven't all paid peanuts.

The point is whether or not they want to stump up a meagre £2/€3 for a priority boarding pass and I don't think that encouraging a cabin revolt in retaliation is a very apposite response. I'd like to think that us passengers might have the courtesy to switch seats if children were distressed by separation. How do you suppose families manage on train journeys which are often longer than FR's Euro-hops and have the additional distraction of intermediate stops?

Specifically I've never been treated like 'scum' by Ryanair staff, I don't think that banning LPG in the tunnel is 'silly' and I don't think that flying with professional, qualified aircrew will ever be analogous to laying on a railway track.

This is, of course, leading nowhere, but I'm genuinely curious as to why these discussions about Ryanair's commercial decisions always descend into such hyperbolic nonsense.

Carr30

I'm not sure it's hyperbolic nonsense but the impression I received when using FR was one which was always just short of what I would describe as 'professional' Everything about them was always short of what I expected. I think a lot of that is down to the salaries they pay, everyone connected to the company, with the exception of the flight crew (the one area where they can't cut corners) seems to be at the beginning of their career and without experience. The cabin crew appear to make very basic errors in the areas of both customer service and safety. In the case of the former I saw a cabin crew staff member completely mis-understand a comment from a customer because her English was not good enough and in the latter I remember a 10 year old child sat with his 80 year old grandparents in the emergency exit row. Both incidents, I'm sure, we're because the CC were too busy, the aircraft boarded in about 5 mins and immediately began its taxi and then took off, no noticeable seatbelt check.

I wish FR (and their passengers) the best of luck but my money (and that of my employer) will always be heading to BA, Lufthansa and all the other quality legacy flyers who, over a long period of time, have provided me with first class service.

Hello FBW
My comments about children in business class were meant to illustrate, as you mentioned, that it's actually the parent rather than the actual child who dictate their behaviour.

I've sat next to screaming babies on numerous occasions and it doesn't bother me at all, probably because I've listened to my own kids screaming when they were babies. You have all this to look forward to :) In my experience most people are extremely understanding whether on a plane or elsewhere.

Enjoy them while they are young as they grow up very quickly:)

SXBWell, you just know that one of us smart alecs is going to say:
In that case - adjust your expectations!!!! :p ;)

Pay attention in class
 

Oh dear, I rather think that any hyperbole is entirely yours, CARR30. You're so busy rubbishing me that you've failed entirely to address the point.

Answer this: in what way is it right to make a safety issue - in this instance children sitting with their parents - an 'extra'?

Thank you SXB, I Know exactly what you mean, I just wanted to say that mini-business passengers are actually increasing, as nowadays families enjoy the "extras" that you get by paying a premium.

I will definitely enjoy flying with my little one when he/she is born, and even before this thread appeared on pprune I had already made up my mind that no way I would risk my sanity or even more anymore by flying FR to see my family. Well, as I have said before thanks Lufthansa for doing something intelligent and giving me a much better option!! :E

I am like you screaming kids do not bother me, unless it's clearly their parents' fault.......

FBW

I've been enjoying the benefits of Ryanair priority boarding since I started cycling to EMA with only a tailbox-full to my name, and once or twice with Easyjet by getting first in the queue, but it's a dubious privilege. All it takes is for Mr Fatso or Jurgen the Gigantic German to make a beeline for you - nice, tidy, amenable chap that you are - and the whole flight is a misery, whereas at least you get to choose whom to park your ass next to if you're last to board.

Who is primarily responsible for the childrens safety? The airline or the parents?

If parents are so concerned about safety and sitting together why don't they just stump up the £10 (for a family of 5) to have priority boarding. Parents spend a lot more in WH Smith on Mars bars, fizzy drinks and crisps or at Burger King for their kids, many of which look has they have gone minutes since their last feed!

Perhaps the parents that moan about the Ryanair charges should get their priorities rights. Safety or junk food?

Do you write for the Sun?:yuk:

Is it not possible that all 189 pax could pay for priority boarding on any one flight?

Therefore ending up with the usual undignified and probably violent crush?

Or will it be limited in numbers?

If the airline doesn't ensure that the child and at least one parent are together then surely the child is unaccompanied?
I assume Ryanair are trying this on in the hope that it won't be challenged, either through the courts or by the CAA.
By the way, much as I dislike doing so, I've just booked flights with FR: total cost eur 270 compared with BA's eur 1100. And without a stop in LGW.

Why should they have to, when it is a safety issue?

Agree with everything you say though about families and the obscene amount they spend on junk food, etc, when they are already overweight and don't do enough excercise, and let their kids have mobile phones, and TV in their bedroom when they are too young and don't discipline them enough and then they turn into yobs who smash up phone boxes and mug old ladies ...

... but that is not really the point here (in my own very humble opinion!) ;)

Well thats it! If the boss if paying for it then everyone would be flying with BA, Lufthansa etc wouldn't they.

I really don't see a need for this topic to continue. Everyone knows Ryanair do things like this. And what is the difference now. (Don't say safety issues. If parents and children want to sit together just pay the £2). I personally think this new boarding process is a great idea! No more rude families pushing to the front demanding to get on first, no more 'I have had an operation on my hand, I need to get on first', 'I need to get on first because I can't stand up for long (young people saying this of course, well sit down lol). Messing around with pre boards takes such a long time, and when you only have around 10/15 mins to board a fully booked flight time is extremely scarce.

As just mentioned Ryanair is one of if, not the most popular airlines in Europe (In terms of passengers numbers and routes flown). They continue to increase their passenger numbers, profits routes at an amazing pace. If you don't want to fly with them, don't. It really is as simple as that! Don't bother slagging them off saying the all time favourite quote 'I will never fly with Ryanair again' only to find yourself booking that £25 all in return flight to Spain, France Italy because they are simply the cheapest deal.

If it is a safety issue that parents and children must sit together (and I can see the force of that), then requiring them to pay the extra money to secure that result, when it is not truly an option, is unfair.

Do you really think that MOL would limit the amount of extra money he would make on any single flight by reducing the number of priority passes to a certain number?:uhoh:

I do not think so, I think he would be there laughing at the ground/air staff trying to stop people punching each other :ouch:

Wouldn't that actually be the IAA in the case of FR ?

It's clear that a 30 month old child needs to be under the supervision of a responsible adult, I believe that's a condition of carriage. That said, FR must have looked into the lagal ramifications of not being able to gaurantee adult and child being seated immediately next to each other without an extra compulsory payment. Of course even a legacy carrier can't guarantee seats next to each other, though in practice they do of course.

If, on a FR flight, a 30 month old infant was seated 10 rows from his/her parent(s) without any supervision I think the Captain may consider the cabin is not correctly configured for takeoff and may decide to defer takeoff until the cabin is correctly configured. I'd be interested to hear any opinions that FC may have on this subject.

Someone earlier said that the difference between BA and FR on a particular trip was €1100 against €270, normally it isn't anywhere near this, in fact BA are sometimes cheaper, but even so I'll pay the extra €830 or so and have my children right next to me.

You may think that I am an Ass, but it really grips me that I get up early, get to check in very very early and try to get pass number for first boarding call. Families get 90 minutes extra sleep, swan in at the last minute and EXPECT to get the best seats. Why not a compromise........ when they call each block of pax forward, let the families holding passes in that block board first??:ok:

Jayteeto

Ryanair really doesn't care about how you feel, it judges success on aggregated numbers, i.e. 42m people a year can't be wrong.

So the choice is simple (a) if the advantages are worth the frustration, accept it or (b) if they are not, choose an airline that allocates seats.

Some news about the new boarding process starting tomorrow.

As already known, passengers will only get pre-boarded if they pay the £2 at the airport, for old bookings, or via the internet whilst booking a new ticket. You will only need to pay for the online check in if you make a booking after the 1st of November. For old bookings you will not be charged.

The boarding lanes will change at STN. One lane for pre board passengers. There will be a limit of 60 passengers able to use the pre boarding system. And there will be one queue for 'All other passengers'. If there is a passenger in the pre board queue without a valid 'token' they will go to the back of the other queue.

The manifest will list all the passengers who have paid for pre board so will know who to give the tokens to. Tokens can be collected at the ticket sales desks.

For passengers who have told Ryanair of a special assistance required such as wheelchair they will have their seats reserved for them on board and will be boarded last.

There are lots of other things changing but I can't remember them all at the moment.

I personally think its a great idea! LOL. Although it will make life SO much harder for gate staff who will get that much more abuse from passengers. And with the baggage allowance going back down to 15 kgs check in will be that much more stressful for the agents.

It's obvious that if everyone began paying for priority boarding then the price would go up until the demand dropped to fill the quota. That's how 1st class works.

To say that passengers would start punching each other over priority boarding shows more contempt towards the decency of us SLF than ever MOL has managed.

What is it about these FR threads?

Carr30

To say that passengers would start punching each other over priority boarding shows more contempt towards the decency of us SLF than ever MOL has managed.

Yesterday evening, at LCY, two guys (Swiss German or German, hard to say) had a very heated confrontation because one thought the other was queue jumping. Not blows, but close to it.

In fact, the check in agent had called forward all emaining pax for a flight that was close to closing.

So a punch up in a Ryanair queue is not beyond the realms of comprehension.