Requirements for pax armrests to be down on takeoff/landing
 

We all know the announcement that pax armrests must be down for takeoff/landing, but there are also a few unfortunate pax who get seated beside someone so huge they are told to put the armrest up as otherwise Mr Tubby can't get into his seat.

Is there any formal requirement on this ? And if "armrests down" is a safety procedure how is it allowed to go out of the window on certain occasions ? Or is it just a case of those unfortunates in this situation having to obey the lawful instructions of the crew, whether they say "up" to one and "down" to another ?

Several years ago I was on aflight from Nairobi to Heathrow on a 747 classic. I was surrounded, sideways and back and front, by several huge guys (who later, it transpired, were mercenaries returning from some obscure African unpleasantness). It was impossible for me to get the armrest down or get my backside fully into the seat (I am 6'4" short myself but was dwarfed by these blokes). My wife called the attendant and made a bit of a fuss but we were told that if we continued to complain we would be off- loaded. We took off with my rear end jammed halfway out of the seat and my seatbelt undone. Later my wife complained so bitterly that we were moved to business class where we were treated like lepers. The company was BA and I have not flown long haul with them since. We have flown worldwide on numerous carriers but have never been treated with such contempt. Also, as a PPL I was staggered by their lack of safety concerns. On return to the UK I contacted BA in writing and expressed my concerns but did not even recieve the courtesy of a reply.

Del

Aha.............

My advice when treated like this is to get Small Claims Tribunal (or whatever lowest cost option is available in your jurisdiction) statement of claim forms, fill them in, send copy to BA (or other organisation treating their customers like scumbags) saying "if I don't have a response to my satisfaction by (2 weeks later) this gets lodged".

Works like a treat. They may come back to you saying that their small print excludes liability in which case you say "there is every possibility that you may rely on the small print, but I am going to make sure that the scumbag way you treat your customers is known to the widest possible audience".

BTW don't mention compensation or you may get a visit from the boys in blue (demanding with menaces).

I have used this technique to get the business class ticket I wanted on my airmiles (airline couldn't offer me ANY options many months in advance though I gave them a huge window of flexibility), so I sued them for the full price of the fare in lieu of the airmiles. They called me to say a seat had been released on my preferred choice of flight.

All it takes is a bit of time. Basically they hate ending up as a tail piece on the evening news.

HKPAX

Just wanted to confirm that the requirement for armrests to be down for take-off and landing is part of our UK Cabin Secure procedure i.e. it is a Safety requirement, and as such non-negotiable.

We require passengers who cannot fit in one seat, to purchase the other.

I know what you mean but...
 

Hi TightSlot, you say
But how does that help get the arm rest down? :D

If they are too big for one seat then surely they are still too big to fly safely in that class as the middle arm rest is still not down.

Memetic

My understanding is that the arm-rest restrains sideways movement during 'disasters', so those 'out of vertical proportion' should have an arm-rest on each side if they occupy two seats, which is better than not letting them fly?

At least that way you have less chance of the 18 stone (x lateral acceleration) coming sideways at you, Memetic:D

Under these circumstances, they would be assigned a window seat - therefore they would not be obstructing the other pax in a triple or quad i.e. the only person affected would be themselves. As I understand it (I may need correction;) ) the armrests need to be down to assist passengers in leaving their seats quickly - almost, in effect, a handhold. This is in addition to the reason indicated by BOAC above (Thanks)

Now I understand! I always find it easier to get out of my seat by pulling the arm rest up so it's out of the way. Of course that is normal gate conditions so I just scoot over without bumping me noggin on the luggage compartment. In an emergency however I can see how the down arm rest could act as an extra lever to assist me springing out of my seat, scrambling over the poor sod to my left or right (as I'm in the window seat), and making sure I trample over them on the way to the emergency exit!:E

Ozzy

One thing is for sure Ozzy - If anyone gets out when it all goes up horribly wrong, it's clearly going to be you!
:D

Quite.

I just can't quite understand people who know they will not fit in a seat expect to do so. After all do they go clothes shopping and complain after picking up something that is obvioulsy 3, 4 or 5 sizes too small that it does not fit? No they buy a bigger size - and sometimes pay a bigger price.

I doubt many of the people in this situation realise it's not just about comfort, it's safety for them and fellow PAX.

Mind you I expect Virgin are pretty careful about this these days.

Am I alone in finding that on more modern aircraft seats (particularly the 'all leather' 'Recaro' types), it's more or less impossible to raise the arms so that they fit snugly in line with the seat backs? They go about 3/4 of the way and then stop, not that I've tried to force them <g>.

This would appear to be a problem for those corpulent pax who have purchased two seats (not that I've ever observed anyone doing this)!

TightSlot

"One thing is for sure Ozzy - If anyone gets out when it all goes up horribly wrong, it's clearly going to be you!"


As my dear old flying instructor used to say "If we crash, and you're not quick enough, the Coroner will find my bootmark on your neck."
I've always thought this would make a far more interesting opening statement for airline safety briefings....