Aus: Man caught with knife and baton on Regional Express service
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Aus: Man caught with knife and baton on Regional Express service
http://www.examiner.ie/breaking/2003...ory108243.html
A passenger was caught with a knife and an extendable baton on board a domestic flight today in the latest breach of Australian airline security.
The 30-year-old man had been “obstructive” but made no violent threats and did not brandish the weapons, a police spokeswoman said.
“He was generally being a nuisance,” said Anne Lyons.
The Regional Express plane was flying to Sydney from Lismore in New South Wales state. Police interrogated the man on his arrival at Sydney.
Lyons said no one was hurt and there had been “no threat of harm to anyone on board the flight”.
The man was undergoing a psychiatric assessment and no charges had yet been filed, she said.
Police did not release his name.
Transport Workers Union state secretary Tony Sheldon said the incident “makes a mockery” of government assurances that adequate security measures are in place at Australian airports.
Australian and US authorities warned yesterday that Australia could be used as a launch pad for new al-Qaida suicide hijackings.
The incident was the latest on planes travelling in or to Australia.
Last month, a man stabbed another passenger with a fork on a flight from Bangkok to Sydney.
In June, a man was arrested after making verbal threats about crashing a domestic flight, and a week later a 68-year-old man was arrested for pulling box cutters out of his bag after take-off.
In May, a would-be hijacker on a domestic flight between Melbourne and Launceston stabbed two flight attendants with sharp wooden chopsticks as he tried unsuccessfully to break into the cockpit.
A spokesman for the airline said cabin crew noticed the baton lying across the man’s lap and confiscated it.
When police interrogated him on his arrival in Sydney he also turned in the knife he had been carrying.
A passenger was caught with a knife and an extendable baton on board a domestic flight today in the latest breach of Australian airline security.
The 30-year-old man had been “obstructive” but made no violent threats and did not brandish the weapons, a police spokeswoman said.
“He was generally being a nuisance,” said Anne Lyons.
The Regional Express plane was flying to Sydney from Lismore in New South Wales state. Police interrogated the man on his arrival at Sydney.
Lyons said no one was hurt and there had been “no threat of harm to anyone on board the flight”.
The man was undergoing a psychiatric assessment and no charges had yet been filed, she said.
Police did not release his name.
Transport Workers Union state secretary Tony Sheldon said the incident “makes a mockery” of government assurances that adequate security measures are in place at Australian airports.
Australian and US authorities warned yesterday that Australia could be used as a launch pad for new al-Qaida suicide hijackings.
The incident was the latest on planes travelling in or to Australia.
Last month, a man stabbed another passenger with a fork on a flight from Bangkok to Sydney.
In June, a man was arrested after making verbal threats about crashing a domestic flight, and a week later a 68-year-old man was arrested for pulling box cutters out of his bag after take-off.
In May, a would-be hijacker on a domestic flight between Melbourne and Launceston stabbed two flight attendants with sharp wooden chopsticks as he tried unsuccessfully to break into the cockpit.
A spokesman for the airline said cabin crew noticed the baton lying across the man’s lap and confiscated it.
When police interrogated him on his arrival in Sydney he also turned in the knife he had been carrying.
No more sense of humour and proportion either.
Does anyone think that what the guy did was so bad? Would you like it if your son lost his temper over his mate doing something like that? I don't mean on an aircraft, I mean in a relative sense?
How many hijackers have been foiled by the increased security after Sept 11?
How many people have felt offended by the obtrusive and offensive nature of security personnel and procedures?
Doesn't matter eh?
Treat people like criminals and you'll get what you're looking for.
You'll also alienate quite a few of your customers while you're at it.
To all those who think that what he did is offensive, how much safer will you feel by sending him to prison? Will it serve your sense of justice?
Don't we want to stop the real terrorists?
Am I nuts or has the rest of the world gone mad?
Does anyone think that what the guy did was so bad? Would you like it if your son lost his temper over his mate doing something like that? I don't mean on an aircraft, I mean in a relative sense?
How many hijackers have been foiled by the increased security after Sept 11?
How many people have felt offended by the obtrusive and offensive nature of security personnel and procedures?
Doesn't matter eh?
Treat people like criminals and you'll get what you're looking for.
You'll also alienate quite a few of your customers while you're at it.
To all those who think that what he did is offensive, how much safer will you feel by sending him to prison? Will it serve your sense of justice?
Don't we want to stop the real terrorists?
Am I nuts or has the rest of the world gone mad?
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Manwell, I am afraid the rest of the world has gone mad...
My theory is that we have become a society of cowards, and will do anything, sacrifice everything, for a perception of safety. Of course we will never achieve real safety, and even if we do we will not recognise it. For example the last year was the safest ever in the US, with no commercial passenger fatalities, but is it encouraging people to fly again? No, and a lot of the reason for it is fear. Of course a lot of the reason is that people will not put up with the invasive and intrusive airport security, but that too is caused by fear.
They catch people with mental problems, or fools, but they will never catch a determined terrorist who knows the system and its weaknesses (and there are many such). Even on Sep 11, the terrorists did not break any rules that would have stopped them from being allowed on board. In the US, the TSA's own inspectors admit that they are getting 25 percent of all guns past security, barely better than pre Sep 11. And fewer flights have Air Marshalls on board. Every real threat has been thwarted (or not, in some cases) by the flight crew and passengers themselves. Airport security is the first wall of protection and it can never be better than a low one. Putting all the effort into that first step is stupid since in order to work it would virtually stop all commercial aviation.
After Sep 11 2001 the authorities should have tightened up security to detect and stop terrorists and criminals, but that was too hard. Instead they have, particularly in the US but also in Australia, chosen to treat the passengers as criminals. It does not work, but it looks effective to the ignorant. It also turns people away and destroys the aviation companies. It is not effective since it wastes resources, and makes it less likely that they will catch or stop a real terrorist. Of all the responses to this act of terror, what is happening is the worst that could happen, and we allow it because we are cowards. Instead of standing up and saying "enough!" we let them tighten up their brand of security, because we are frightened. They might be right, we think to ourselves. Benjamin Franklin said that if we give up our rights to achieve security we will have less of both.
As in government, we get what we deserve.
My theory is that we have become a society of cowards, and will do anything, sacrifice everything, for a perception of safety. Of course we will never achieve real safety, and even if we do we will not recognise it. For example the last year was the safest ever in the US, with no commercial passenger fatalities, but is it encouraging people to fly again? No, and a lot of the reason for it is fear. Of course a lot of the reason is that people will not put up with the invasive and intrusive airport security, but that too is caused by fear.
They catch people with mental problems, or fools, but they will never catch a determined terrorist who knows the system and its weaknesses (and there are many such). Even on Sep 11, the terrorists did not break any rules that would have stopped them from being allowed on board. In the US, the TSA's own inspectors admit that they are getting 25 percent of all guns past security, barely better than pre Sep 11. And fewer flights have Air Marshalls on board. Every real threat has been thwarted (or not, in some cases) by the flight crew and passengers themselves. Airport security is the first wall of protection and it can never be better than a low one. Putting all the effort into that first step is stupid since in order to work it would virtually stop all commercial aviation.
After Sep 11 2001 the authorities should have tightened up security to detect and stop terrorists and criminals, but that was too hard. Instead they have, particularly in the US but also in Australia, chosen to treat the passengers as criminals. It does not work, but it looks effective to the ignorant. It also turns people away and destroys the aviation companies. It is not effective since it wastes resources, and makes it less likely that they will catch or stop a real terrorist. Of all the responses to this act of terror, what is happening is the worst that could happen, and we allow it because we are cowards. Instead of standing up and saying "enough!" we let them tighten up their brand of security, because we are frightened. They might be right, we think to ourselves. Benjamin Franklin said that if we give up our rights to achieve security we will have less of both.
As in government, we get what we deserve.
Thanks for the post Lizard, and I thought that I was the only one who thought that the approach pursued by our elected representatives was a little off the planet.
Does anyone else think that the actions of our politicians are seemingly intended to curry opinion, while increasing their power, rather than addressing the problem?
Seems to me that whenever someone from government approaches saying "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you...." It's time to wake up to reality.
"Don't save me, I'm having enough trouble staying afloat by myself...:"ok:
Does anyone else think that the actions of our politicians are seemingly intended to curry opinion, while increasing their power, rather than addressing the problem?
Seems to me that whenever someone from government approaches saying "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you...." It's time to wake up to reality.
"Don't save me, I'm having enough trouble staying afloat by myself...:"ok:
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When I get on one of my hobby horses I have so much fun!
The guy in the story typifies what is going on. First he was not a terrorist. Second the airport security failed to stop him from carrying on two banned "weapons" (they did not find them despite having probably one of the best security systems in the world. They only found the knife when he told them about it!). Third, as in most circumstances, the problem will not show up at the airport but in the air, a situation ignored by authorities. And Fourth, real terrorists will not try to smuggle a knife or gun, they will use weapons that are not detectable or are not banned. I do not want to tell you what works, but you can look at the stories of the last twenty or so hijackings, some of which were successful. Only one guy used a knife, a small pocket knife and he was unsuccessful, did no damage. In one of the successful hijackings, the perpetrator used a TV remote control. Airport security cannot and will not be able to prevent a determined criminal or terrorist, and the effort MUST change to one of detecting those people before they strike and to develop ways to handle the attack in flight. Both of these necessary areas are being ignored in preference to treating the passenger as the enemy. All the effort is being put into making the honest person's life miserable; they have no resources left to actually find the bad guys. When they waste their time seaching a little girl's bag you know they have no clue.
I don't know about Aus, but in the US they have put in great big special Xray machines to detect explosives in all passenger bags. Now where do you suppose these machines are located? Down below or out in a remote area so that if they find a bomb they can dispose of it safely? No... they are generally right there in the check in area, so that if they find a bomb and set it off, maximum casualties will result. And when the machine does trigger a response to a potential bomb, do they call the bomb squad, dogs and the lot, and move the suitcase to a safe area before opening it? No, they put it on a table right there beside the machine and go through it manually, using rubber gloves! A bomb would most likely have anti-handling devices, so rummaging around in the bag is sure to set it off, so what do these brilliant security experts do? It tells me that they know there is no threat, and they are doing it for their own agenda, not safety.
And consider the security lines. What happens if they did find a terrorist with a gun? Do they think the terrorist is just going to hand it over and go quietly? Of course not, he is going to pull it out and start firing! What response can the airport security make to that, with thousands of innocents standing around? How can they take the guy(s) out without causing more casualties? Man, look at the way they respond to finding a computer in a carry-on, imagine what would happen if they actually found a gun and a real bad guy together? They could make a movie and use it to show how it should not be done.
My point is that they know there is no threat, and they are not prepared to deal with it if it did exist. They are just going through the motions in order to reassure the gullible public that they are doing something to make flying safer, even though in fact what they are doing makes us all less safe. But it does let them build a bigger empire!
The guy in the story typifies what is going on. First he was not a terrorist. Second the airport security failed to stop him from carrying on two banned "weapons" (they did not find them despite having probably one of the best security systems in the world. They only found the knife when he told them about it!). Third, as in most circumstances, the problem will not show up at the airport but in the air, a situation ignored by authorities. And Fourth, real terrorists will not try to smuggle a knife or gun, they will use weapons that are not detectable or are not banned. I do not want to tell you what works, but you can look at the stories of the last twenty or so hijackings, some of which were successful. Only one guy used a knife, a small pocket knife and he was unsuccessful, did no damage. In one of the successful hijackings, the perpetrator used a TV remote control. Airport security cannot and will not be able to prevent a determined criminal or terrorist, and the effort MUST change to one of detecting those people before they strike and to develop ways to handle the attack in flight. Both of these necessary areas are being ignored in preference to treating the passenger as the enemy. All the effort is being put into making the honest person's life miserable; they have no resources left to actually find the bad guys. When they waste their time seaching a little girl's bag you know they have no clue.
I don't know about Aus, but in the US they have put in great big special Xray machines to detect explosives in all passenger bags. Now where do you suppose these machines are located? Down below or out in a remote area so that if they find a bomb they can dispose of it safely? No... they are generally right there in the check in area, so that if they find a bomb and set it off, maximum casualties will result. And when the machine does trigger a response to a potential bomb, do they call the bomb squad, dogs and the lot, and move the suitcase to a safe area before opening it? No, they put it on a table right there beside the machine and go through it manually, using rubber gloves! A bomb would most likely have anti-handling devices, so rummaging around in the bag is sure to set it off, so what do these brilliant security experts do? It tells me that they know there is no threat, and they are doing it for their own agenda, not safety.
And consider the security lines. What happens if they did find a terrorist with a gun? Do they think the terrorist is just going to hand it over and go quietly? Of course not, he is going to pull it out and start firing! What response can the airport security make to that, with thousands of innocents standing around? How can they take the guy(s) out without causing more casualties? Man, look at the way they respond to finding a computer in a carry-on, imagine what would happen if they actually found a gun and a real bad guy together? They could make a movie and use it to show how it should not be done.
My point is that they know there is no threat, and they are not prepared to deal with it if it did exist. They are just going through the motions in order to reassure the gullible public that they are doing something to make flying safer, even though in fact what they are doing makes us all less safe. But it does let them build a bigger empire!
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A blind friend of mine was stopped at security at EWR because his shoes set off the detector. He had his cane with him and was quite clearly blind.
Quite rightly security ran him through extra checks which while they only took a couple of minutes left him quite distrought. At no time did they explain to him what they were doing, they most definately did treat him like a criminal and at the end of the procedure left him without telling him they were done. He couldn't even find his shoes because they didn't tell him where they had taken them - they were sitting on the x-ray machine belt!
Quite rightly security ran him through extra checks which while they only took a couple of minutes left him quite distrought. At no time did they explain to him what they were doing, they most definately did treat him like a criminal and at the end of the procedure left him without telling him they were done. He couldn't even find his shoes because they didn't tell him where they had taken them - they were sitting on the x-ray machine belt!
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Today I read that the US has decided to stop transits through the US without visas (for many countries' nationals), which will impact on US airlines, despite no proof of a real risk from such people. It takes months sometimes to get a US visa, even crew visas are now subject to Interview, which puts a month onto every application.
And they have decided to "crack down" on computers, digital cameras and the like in hand carried bags, again despite no demonstration of a risk, which will make airport security even more of a hassle with no safety or security gain.
Johny Howhigh will no doubt follow the lead of his mate George.
Another quote, from Barnum(?) "...you can fool some of the people all of the time..."
And they have decided to "crack down" on computers, digital cameras and the like in hand carried bags, again despite no demonstration of a risk, which will make airport security even more of a hassle with no safety or security gain.
Johny Howhigh will no doubt follow the lead of his mate George.
Another quote, from Barnum(?) "...you can fool some of the people all of the time..."
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Hi There,
Very interesting posts, im intrigued with the "crack down" on digital cameras! Does that mean if i decide to go on holidays to the States i can't take my digital?
This is getting more and more rediculous this so called security measures
Lizard, im afraid that the PM will follow his mate, i get the impression that he wants Australia to be another US State... Oh Dear!
Many Thanks
Very interesting posts, im intrigued with the "crack down" on digital cameras! Does that mean if i decide to go on holidays to the States i can't take my digital?
This is getting more and more rediculous this so called security measures
Lizard, im afraid that the PM will follow his mate, i get the impression that he wants Australia to be another US State... Oh Dear!
Many Thanks
