BA Aircraft Change
If you want an answer you must present the information in a concise and complete form. The members of this forum are not your slaves, and they are under no obligation to wade through your confused, convoluted and overly-punctuated postings to extract salient points - that kind of attitude makes you come over as an entitled oik with something to hide.
If I understand correctly you bought your tickets in Spain using a spanish payment card. If that is the case you need to be talking to someone who understands spanish consumer law.
Was your "Full and comprehensive insurance" also from a spanish provider? If so you may need to take expert advice on what is covered by that insurance, because it varies from country to country.
Unless you explicitly identified your wife's special needs at the time of the booking you probably have no rights relating to the change of aircraft or seat locations. You bought standard tickets, and the Ts&Cs for those (available on the booking website) will invariably say the airline can change aeroplane type and seat assignments without notice. In my experience of commercial flying (long, medium and short haul - must be well over a hundred flights over the last 30-40 years) I think the number of times when my initial seat allocations survived through to the flight would be counted on the fingers of one thumb. If you want any great confidence you have to be a high-graded frequent flyer, but even then the only seat allocations that are reliable are the ones made a few days before the flight (in the privileged period when frequent flyers can check in but regular customers can't). If you need special treatment due to disabilities then TELL THE AIRLINE BEFORE YOU BOOK. They may be able to accommodate your needs, but it may need you to buy a more expensive ticket deal.
If your sole reason for not being able to travel is that the US border is closed to you then it's nothing to do with the airline. If that specific risk is not covered by your travel insurance then it's not their problem either. You can try suing the US government if you like - if you happen to like wasting money.
It might be worth asking the insurer under which specific clause(s) they are denying a claim. I have successfully changed the decision of a british travel insurer when I read page 17 of the 16 page policy document and found a list of things that were covered followed by a list of things that were not covered. The final entry in the second list said "anything not included in the first list". This open exclusion (there's a term for it that I can't remember off hand) isn't allowed under English contract law, and when I pointed this out to them the paid up almost by return of post. So ask them which specific clause excludes your claim, and then read the contract.
PDR
If I understand correctly you bought your tickets in Spain using a spanish payment card. If that is the case you need to be talking to someone who understands spanish consumer law.
Was your "Full and comprehensive insurance" also from a spanish provider? If so you may need to take expert advice on what is covered by that insurance, because it varies from country to country.
Unless you explicitly identified your wife's special needs at the time of the booking you probably have no rights relating to the change of aircraft or seat locations. You bought standard tickets, and the Ts&Cs for those (available on the booking website) will invariably say the airline can change aeroplane type and seat assignments without notice. In my experience of commercial flying (long, medium and short haul - must be well over a hundred flights over the last 30-40 years) I think the number of times when my initial seat allocations survived through to the flight would be counted on the fingers of one thumb. If you want any great confidence you have to be a high-graded frequent flyer, but even then the only seat allocations that are reliable are the ones made a few days before the flight (in the privileged period when frequent flyers can check in but regular customers can't). If you need special treatment due to disabilities then TELL THE AIRLINE BEFORE YOU BOOK. They may be able to accommodate your needs, but it may need you to buy a more expensive ticket deal.
If your sole reason for not being able to travel is that the US border is closed to you then it's nothing to do with the airline. If that specific risk is not covered by your travel insurance then it's not their problem either. You can try suing the US government if you like - if you happen to like wasting money.
It might be worth asking the insurer under which specific clause(s) they are denying a claim. I have successfully changed the decision of a british travel insurer when I read page 17 of the 16 page policy document and found a list of things that were covered followed by a list of things that were not covered. The final entry in the second list said "anything not included in the first list". This open exclusion (there's a term for it that I can't remember off hand) isn't allowed under English contract law, and when I pointed this out to them the paid up almost by return of post. So ask them which specific clause excludes your claim, and then read the contract.
PDR
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Without reading all of the above, I think your best bet is to make a play (given the circumstances) for your own row, meaning window and aisle seat with no one in the middle seat. Better yet, take the center row and get two aisle seats and therefore two aisles to access. Better still, upgrade to World Traveller Plus and avoid the middle seat altogether on the windows.
PS... With all due respect, especially given your age and health considerations, maybe international travel right now with a killer Chinese virus out there is a bad idea. I’m sure no one in the wedding party would hold it against you.
PS... With all due respect, especially given your age and health considerations, maybe international travel right now with a killer Chinese virus out there is a bad idea. I’m sure no one in the wedding party would hold it against you.
I think one of the earlier posters referred to asking the question on social media. I gather BA are keen to look good on social media, so you may get further by asking them via Twitter?
I also know that BA are very aware of the American disability act as we all have to do a module every year on it. Whether that would be of use in your case now is questionable as you won’t be granted entry to the USA anyway. Though, with the Donald, that could change tomorrow .
I also know that BA are very aware of the American disability act as we all have to do a module every year on it. Whether that would be of use in your case now is questionable as you won’t be granted entry to the USA anyway. Though, with the Donald, that could change tomorrow .
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Thread Starter
I suspect they would pick it up from my ESTA application OC37.
Hiding anything from US Immigration is fraught with problems.
PDR, I can see you are stressing a little about my problem !
I have no intention whatsoever of travelling to LA at this time.
The advice and help I have been given here has been invaluable !
BA have now canceled my flight and are offering a refund.
Strangely, this applies to the outbound leg only.
Return leg still pending .
El G.
Hiding anything from US Immigration is fraught with problems.
PDR, I can see you are stressing a little about my problem !
I have no intention whatsoever of travelling to LA at this time.
The advice and help I have been given here has been invaluable !
BA have now canceled my flight and are offering a refund.
Strangely, this applies to the outbound leg only.
Return leg still pending .
El G.
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My ESTA expired shortly after I was due to fly to the USA but at the moment you cannot apply for an ESTA.
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/
I have pretended to buy a ticket with BA just now, return to lax from lhr, leaving next week. Interesting that it has allowed me to book, and
not once has it warned me that l wont be permitted to go, being a uk citizen. Trying to find out you CAN go in the first instance isnt easy , so l havent bothered.
the flight is the 269 out, 268 back on the microlight 787.
Good luck in the minefield of finding where you can and cant fly to.
not once has it warned me that l wont be permitted to go, being a uk citizen. Trying to find out you CAN go in the first instance isnt easy , so l havent bothered.
the flight is the 269 out, 268 back on the microlight 787.
Good luck in the minefield of finding where you can and cant fly to.
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I have pretended to buy a ticket with BA just now, return to lax from lhr, leaving next week. Interesting that it has allowed me to book, and
not once has it warned me that l wont be permitted to go, being a uk citizen. Trying to find out you CAN go in the first instance isnt easy , so l havent bothered.
the flight is the 269 out, 268 back on the microlight 787.
Good luck in the minefield of finding where you can and cant fly to.
not once has it warned me that l wont be permitted to go, being a uk citizen. Trying to find out you CAN go in the first instance isnt easy , so l havent bothered.
the flight is the 269 out, 268 back on the microlight 787.
Good luck in the minefield of finding where you can and cant fly to.
No, it won't tell you.
It's up to you as traveller, to make sure you comply with border entry conditions, in this case ( USA )
you have to be US citizen, Green card holder, or certain class of VISA holder, to enter.
It's not up to airline to tell you. You are supposed to be grown ups.
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During September BA's one-way fare LAX/LHR is $1,300 so if you've paid just £500 round-trip you're on a cheapy fare and you wouldn't be allowed to travel just one-way LAX/LHR having only paid £500 and not having travelled outward from LHR to travel the return.
Thread Starter
Frangatang, I find that to be incredible in the current circumstances and am surprise that there are those who find it accptable.
You might expect this of the RYR's of this word, but not from BA !
Every other element of my trip has been cancelled, 3 flight legs, 2 hotel bookings and two inter-airport transfers.
Everyone has given me a refund. All the bookings were mde last year before Covid was even dreamt off.
Each one understood the risk we were faced with and refunded without question.
Although different a bit from my situation, surely BA accepting a booking at this stage, without warning of the fact that UK passengers are unable to board, is tantamount to fraud. A damned disgrace at least !!
El Grifo
You might expect this of the RYR's of this word, but not from BA !
Every other element of my trip has been cancelled, 3 flight legs, 2 hotel bookings and two inter-airport transfers.
Everyone has given me a refund. All the bookings were mde last year before Covid was even dreamt off.
Each one understood the risk we were faced with and refunded without question.
Although different a bit from my situation, surely BA accepting a booking at this stage, without warning of the fact that UK passengers are unable to board, is tantamount to fraud. A damned disgrace at least !!
El Grifo
Last edited by El Grifo; 9th Aug 2020 at 09:46.
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Seriously El Grifo, it is time to listen to what you are been told. It is, and always has been, YOUR responsibility to ensure that you are legal for a flight. This has been true before covid, during covid, and after covid. Does/has any airline ever told you of visa requirements or entry restrictions during booking? Does every airline you have flown with told you not to be drunk when you show up to the airport? or maybe that you have to be fully clothed? This is the same as visa restrictions, your problem, not the airline. If you may be listened to what people have politely told you on a 4 page thread (and that your thoughts may be completely wrong) you would save yourself a lot of stress.
Paying early is not all in the airline coffers, also contrary to belief, as the credit card companies use intermediary organisations called Merchant Card Processors, who, simplistically, may hold all or part of the funds until the service is actually provided, dispatched, or whatever. The way this is done varies by type of business and the credit card company's experience of liabilities. This is in part driven by the legal requirement that if the service is not provided, you can get the money back from the credit card company, who of course are not keen to fund all the commercial problems that can happen, so don't pay it across to the airline or whoever in the first place until it's reported done.
Thread Starter
WBHM, I booked early to ensure suitable seating for my wife. We have travelelled the route several times and in light of my wife's medical condition we need specific seating. Early booking was not a cost saving exercise.
The booking, as previously mentioned, made by debit card, not credit card !
Thanks for your input.
El Grifo
The booking, as previously mentioned, made by debit card, not credit card !
Thanks for your input.
El Grifo
Thread Starter
Although it has been made very clear to me on several occassions that I will not be permitted entry into the US based on my Spanish Residency and my UK departure, BA today, still insist that I will be allowed entry with a 2 week quarantine proviso !
Despite the varying and different views of my predicament, surely there can only be one answer to this !
Will I be allowed entry, or will I not !
Answers please on the back of an envelope :-)
El G.
Despite the varying and different views of my predicament, surely there can only be one answer to this !
Will I be allowed entry, or will I not !
Answers please on the back of an envelope :-)
El G.
From the US Embassy website in DublinQ: Can I travel to the United States? What does the travel order (Presidential Proclamation 9996) mean?
Entry of foreign nationals who were physically present within the following list of countries within 14 days prior to their entry or attempted entry into the United States is suspended, per Presidential Proclamations 9984, 9992, 9993, 9996 and the subsequent proclamation issued May 24, 2020:
Brazil; The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, excluding overseas territories outside of Europe; The Republic of Ireland; The 26 countries that comprise the Schengen Area (Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland); The Islamic Republic of Iran; The People’s Republic of China.
Please click here to review Presidential Proclamation 9996 in full for detailed information.
The travel restriction does not apply to American citizens, legal permanent residents, most immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in Presidential Proclamation 9996. The Department of Homeland Security will direct those who have been in the Schengen Area who are exempt from these restrictions, including American citizens, to travel through select airports where the U.S. Government has implemented enhanced screening procedures. Travelers are advised to visit the Department of Homeland Security’s website for further guidance on U.S. travel restrictions.
Entry of foreign nationals who were physically present within the following list of countries within 14 days prior to their entry or attempted entry into the United States is suspended, per Presidential Proclamations 9984, 9992, 9993, 9996 and the subsequent proclamation issued May 24, 2020:
Brazil; The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, excluding overseas territories outside of Europe; The Republic of Ireland; The 26 countries that comprise the Schengen Area (Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland); The Islamic Republic of Iran; The People’s Republic of China.
Please click here to review Presidential Proclamation 9996 in full for detailed information.
The travel restriction does not apply to American citizens, legal permanent residents, most immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in Presidential Proclamation 9996. The Department of Homeland Security will direct those who have been in the Schengen Area who are exempt from these restrictions, including American citizens, to travel through select airports where the U.S. Government has implemented enhanced screening procedures. Travelers are advised to visit the Department of Homeland Security’s website for further guidance on U.S. travel restrictions.
"Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.
(a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:
(i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States;
(ii) any alien who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;
(iii) any alien who is the parent or legal guardian of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident is unmarried and under the age of 21;
(iv) any alien who is the sibling of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that both are unmarried and under the age of 21;
(v) any alien who is the child, foster child, or ward of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, or who is a prospective adoptee seeking to enter the United States pursuant to the IR-4 or IH-4 visa classifications;
(vi) any alien traveling at the invitation of the United States Government for a purpose related to containment or mitigation of the virus;
(vii) any alien traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any alien otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew;
(viii) any alien
(A) seeking entry into or transiting the United States pursuant to one of the following visas: A-1, A-2, C-2, C-3 (as a foreign government official or immediate family member of an official), E-1 (as an employee of TECRO or TECO or the employee’s immediate family members), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1 through NATO-4, or NATO-6 (or seeking to enter as a nonimmigrant in one of those NATO categories); or
(B) whose travel falls within the scope of section 11 of the United Nations Headquarters Agreement;
(ix) any alien who is a member of the U.S. Armed Forces and any alien who is a spouse or child of a member of the U.S. Armed Forces;
(x) any alien whose entry would not pose a significant risk of introducing, transmitting, or spreading the virus, as determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, through the CDC Director or his designee;
(xi) any alien whose entry would further important United States law enforcement objectives, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their respective designees, based on a recommendation of the Attorney General or his designee; or
(xii) any alien whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their designees.
(b) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to affect any individual’s eligibility for asylum, withholding of removal, or protection under the regulations issued pursuant to the legislation implementing the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, consistent with the laws and regulations of the United States.
(a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:
(i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States;
(ii) any alien who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;
(iii) any alien who is the parent or legal guardian of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident is unmarried and under the age of 21;
(iv) any alien who is the sibling of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that both are unmarried and under the age of 21;
(v) any alien who is the child, foster child, or ward of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, or who is a prospective adoptee seeking to enter the United States pursuant to the IR-4 or IH-4 visa classifications;
(vi) any alien traveling at the invitation of the United States Government for a purpose related to containment or mitigation of the virus;
(vii) any alien traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any alien otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew;
(viii) any alien
(A) seeking entry into or transiting the United States pursuant to one of the following visas: A-1, A-2, C-2, C-3 (as a foreign government official or immediate family member of an official), E-1 (as an employee of TECRO or TECO or the employee’s immediate family members), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1 through NATO-4, or NATO-6 (or seeking to enter as a nonimmigrant in one of those NATO categories); or
(B) whose travel falls within the scope of section 11 of the United Nations Headquarters Agreement;
(ix) any alien who is a member of the U.S. Armed Forces and any alien who is a spouse or child of a member of the U.S. Armed Forces;
(x) any alien whose entry would not pose a significant risk of introducing, transmitting, or spreading the virus, as determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, through the CDC Director or his designee;
(xi) any alien whose entry would further important United States law enforcement objectives, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their respective designees, based on a recommendation of the Attorney General or his designee; or
(xii) any alien whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their designees.
(b) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to affect any individual’s eligibility for asylum, withholding of removal, or protection under the regulations issued pursuant to the legislation implementing the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, consistent with the laws and regulations of the United States.
... But I think that if the OP had told BA at booking time that he required a particular type of seat (aisle), giving reasons – medical or any other – then that requirement would have become part of his contract with BA (there's a legal phrase which I forget) and when the aircraft type changed..
If there's a better phrase, I'm sure someone will correct me...
Son of Slot
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Super Senior Moderator
No PDR. This year is difficult enough with being rude in the cabin. I have deleted your last and please remember the No.1 PPRuNe rule - play the ball not the player. These are complicated times and the laws being used by all parties were never designed for this kind of wholesale change to society.
