Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)
Reload this Page >

“Delayed due to operational reasons”

Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

“Delayed due to operational reasons”

Old 26th Aug 2018, 17:51
  #21 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,180
What did I start.....

Delays don't particularly annoy me,they are part of airline travel, and in most circumstances aren't too bad. In the 100s of flights I've had as a passenger, I can count the serious delays on my fingers.

I just find the 'operational reasons' explanation given in the lounge irritating.Maybe because I'm more than just a casual traveller and actually have an interest in these things.

(Oh, and my flight was cancelled in the end so I had a 6 hour taxi ride home instead! C'est la vie!)
Davef68 is online now  
Old 26th Aug 2018, 18:26
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 2,351
Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner View Post
What the sky gods are telling us is that Aviation is basically a f#cked up industri with little or no control of many links in the chain? Nice to know.
I sure hope they will be as overbearing, as they expect us lowly SFL to be, next time they buy a product and things go tits up.
Somehow I very much doubt it.
Per
Well think again.
You don’t buy a ‘product’ you buy the agreement for transportation and I’m sure the word reasonable is in there. There’s been a slew of ICAO conventions outlining everything from hijack and hostage taking to damaged luggage.
The flight crew are the two or three people that have the least amount of influence over the timeliness of the operations. On the ground we’re as powerless as turtles on their shell.
Thanks to the likes of Mc Leary and other soulless zombie overlords like him this industry has been hollowed out.
The tug may have the name of the airline on it but the driver is a minimum wage employee of a subcontractor who won the contract with the lowest bid. Gate agents wear the airline uniform or scarf but their employment contract is in somebody else’s name.
This combined with usually brutal write up policies doesn’t encourage loyalty to the final service provided. Which is on time performance.
Now mix in the territorial behavior of many of the subparts involved and it’s now everybody else’s fault but mine. That’s been stated above.
Ground Crew writing it up as a flight crew delay, flight crew writing up as a gate delay, gate agents writing up as a security delay bin cause demerits can cause you to loose your job.
None of this comes back as line items in a spread sheet.
And no, aviation is not comparable with any other industry.
B2N2 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2018, 19:23
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,418
And no, aviation is not comparable with any other industry.
As a retired aviation professional, I beg to differ.
Hotel Tango is online now  
Old 26th Aug 2018, 19:42
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,418
What did I start.....

Delays don't particularly annoy me,they are part of airline travel, and in most circumstances aren't too bad. In the 100s of flights I've had as a passenger, I can count the serious delays on my fingers.
indeed. And all I said was that I didn't need pointless generic airport PA excuses for delays. I don't believe that either you or I questioned the reasons for delays. Of course they will occur and of course we know about the myriad of reasons why. My whole point was I just don't need to hear some lame generic reason which in fact may have no bearing on the real reason for the delay. Unfortunately, B2N2 got the wrong end of the stick and got on his high horse!

End of the matter for me now.
Hotel Tango is online now  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 06:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,309
Phew...I guess we got there (though on this subject I see there is now a Which report out grumbling that airlines are padding their schedules because of delays...sometimes you can’t win)...

err anyhow - genuine question- how would people feel/react if the flight crew simply announced “we have no idea why the flight were are about to take out was late arriving ”? I did it once and got grumbles that it sounded unprofessional....as I said: sometimes you can’t win...
wiggy is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 08:40
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,418
how would people feel/react if the flight crew simply announced “we have no idea why the flight were are about to take out was late arriving ”? I did it once and got grumbles that it sounded unprofessional....as I said: sometimes you can’t win...
Damn wiggy, you've got me posting again From my side I already answered this. Remember that I (and Davef68 I believe) referred to generic airport/gate announcements.

Here is what I said:

it is my experience that the Captain usually provides a better explanation with a PA once boarding is completed, and it doesn't have to be as detailed as TangoAlphad's amusing example. Fortunately at many airport these days we only have screens to look at and, thankfully, we don't have to listen to announcements using those ridiculous and useless generic reasons.
Hotel Tango is online now  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 10:24
  #27 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,839
This should not surprise. If outher industries had their daily performance measured,publicly available and enforced by law - they would change their organisations too.
The Guardian.
Flight times extended by major airlines to avoid payouts, report claims.
Carriers add up to 30 minutes to trips, reducing the likelihood of paying compensation for delays, Which? says.
In this regard, I agree that the airline is NOT like others. However, the process' by which they arrange themselves are exactly the same. Modern business tend to run to the same MBA script.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 11:52
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,309
HY

Sorry..

Meanwhile from the very first para of the Guardian article..


Plane journeys are taking longer than a decade ago, according to a report that claims the change is down to airlines “padding” their schedules to create the impression passengers were reaching their destinations on time.
...but if the airlines get the correction block times correct and then change the advertised arrival time then passengers actually are reaching their destinations on time.....

(don’s tin hat and looks for another thread to retire to)....
wiggy is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 13:59
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 65
Posts: 216
I have this mental picture of a pilot, his wife and umpteen children finally ready on the pier for their long awaited Caribbean cruise, when over the PA system they are informed of a delay. More information to follow.
Finally after no more information, the ship berths, and they are informed that the reason for the delay was late arriving ship.
The pilot will of course take it in his stride, not worrying about tech issues which might have have caused the delay, or any other reasons that could cause unpleasantness during the trip. Maybe they needed those three hours to remove the odd norovirus?
Just saying.
Per
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 14:30
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,418
To my knowledge Ryanair have covered their arses with well padded scheduled block times for years. Interestingly, as a comparison, the airline I fly short haul regularly with (Eurowings) don't. Their scheduled block times are relatively tight. Their turnaround times are also very tight. Consequently, any delay picked up (for whatever valid reason) tends to remain, or even get further exacerbated, as the day progresses. If, on its last rotation, the aircraft can't get back into the DUS base by midnight, it requires a diversion to CGN. Not withstanding the inconvenience to pax (been there and got the t-shirt), it means the aircraft has to be of course positioned back to DUS the next morning. Eurowings have recently come in for quite a lot of criticism from their German clients because of their poor time keeping. In the end, their quest to maximise aircraft utilisation in the interest of economics works against them. Incidentally, just for the record, I'm talking about substantial delays and not 3 minutes!
Hotel Tango is online now  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 21:45
  #31 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,180
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Phew...I guess we got there (though on this subject I see there is now a Which report out grumbling that airlines are padding their schedules because of delays...sometimes you can’t win)...
.
Train companies have been doing that for years. Usually between the last and second last station on the route.
Davef68 is online now  
Old 27th Aug 2018, 22:01
  #32 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,839
I recall discussion around this topic over 10 years ago when the publication of arrival statistics really started to bite. The larger the destination airport = the greater the padding. So it is 'faster' to go LGW-IOM than it is to return. Non story but the media have learnt that the airlines will rarely shout back. You can whip them a thousand times and, mostly, they just take it. So that makes them an easy target for any story.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2018, 11:19
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 34
Posts: 585
Originally Posted by TangoAlphad View Post
I don't see any issues with increasing the block times? Infact I'm amazed it seems to bother someone enough to bother writing a bloody article on it. Airports are busier as is airspace so flights are delayed due to congestion more often than 10 years ago. If you book a ticket expecting to be there at 10:00 what does it matter if the scheduled block time is 1:30 now and not the 1:20 it was before.. as long as you arrive near enough the expected time.
Yes, it's as if the media is outraged that airlines are trying to make sure people arrive on time by allowing extra time for delays en-route. What will they moan about next?

Anyway, my 2 cents. When you're in the terminal and hear the old "delayed due to operational reasons" or "late inbound aircraft" it's because of 2 things. The gate agent has been told to say that by their superior and also tannoy announcement time is supposed to be as short as possible. Other staff waiting to do calls for their flights and other passengers waiting to hear calls for their flights don't really care fort he intricate details of why YOUR flight is delayed. You'll find out on board if they crew want to tell you all about it in the confines of your own cabin. The whole terminal doesn't really need to know. Some terminals have gate rooms, so can do localised calls for your flight, fair enough, those are usually the ones where staff go into a bit more detail, but thinking of EDI in particular, they have open terminals and while one person is blithering on, everyone else has to wait for their turn. Calls can be recorded to be played when a chance comes up, but then you get delayed reaction with a call going out 5 minutes after it's meant to...which could cause delays...due to operational reasons.
edi_local is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2018, 10:48
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London
Posts: 480
It may be that the airline doesn't want to say. If they say that the plane has gone tech that can cause concern to pax. (Yes I know its a good to wait for your chariot to become serviceable). If the a/c is being used to cover for another delayed flight you may have a set of passengers feeling hard done by. As mentioned above the reason could appear embarrassing to the airline. Explaining the intricacies of waiting for a slot and hoping that one comes forward could be too complex.

I've worked in the railway industry and it is quite common to use a euphemism for delays, for example for a suicide.
Peter47 is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2018, 11:29
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North West UK
Posts: 517
I had a row with a woman at an airport a year or so back. The flight was delayed, not by a great deal, certainly no more than an hour on a five hour flight, but she was adamant that it was a disgrace, she was going to complain, seek compansation etc etc. She was getting very 'het up'.

I turned round and said that she could do all those things, if the flight landed late, but as we had only just moved away from the terminal, the chances were we would land reasonably on time so why get all frustrated when you can do nothing about it and in all likelihood you willl have nothing to complain about anyway.

She did not see the logic and continued to moan for the rest of the flight, until several of us told her to shut up.

Needless to say, we landed only 15 minutes past the STA.
Espada III is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2018, 14:52
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 623
Would most SLF understand the reason?

"Anti collision strobe low on blinker fluid."
EEngr is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2018, 21:37
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Doncaster
Age: 45
Posts: 139
I long for a delay announcement of Operational Reasons. It would be a step forward from Aer Lingus at Dublin, who last week delayed a flight for a substantial amount of time and flung passengers around to 7 different gates. Not a single announcement.

A lot of plans/crew were no doubt out of position after Stom Ali, and we assumed that they were trying on the hoof to get a plane and crew available at the same time, but it was very clear that keeping the passengers informed was at the end of the list. It was amusing watching gate agents boarding a flight to Oslo, while the screens said it was the Manchester flight. They were getting very upset, and could not work out why Oslo was suddenly so popular.
davidjpowell is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2018, 11:52
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Posts: 1,589
It was French ATC.

And if it wasn't the French, it was the Spanish ATC.

Simples
Ancient Observer is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2018, 13:31
  #39 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,839
No worries, A O. After 29th March next year - we won't be flying there anyway. Reasons for delay will be announced as ... ??? [It's Friday afternoon ]
PAXboy is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2018, 18:27
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Back of beyond
Posts: 773
Friend’s girlfriend worked for BAA doing flight announcements in Terminal 3. When they still did flight announcements.
All a bit formulaic, as in “British Airways regrets to announce a delay to flight BA123. The flight will depart at 15:40” until one day a piece of paper turned up with delay details, but with no departure time.
Linda charges straight in with “Air Canada regrets to announce a delay to flight AC456. The flight will depart....”.
Looks frantically for a departure time, finds none, gulps and says ......“sometime...”
Everyone in the terminal looks at the loudspeakers in the ceiling.....

Last edited by RevMan2; 30th Sep 2018 at 07:12.
RevMan2 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.