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Dog dies in overhead locker on UA

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Dog dies in overhead locker on UA

Old 17th Mar 2018, 02:16
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
Well, since a second dog was placed on the wrong United Airlines aircraft this week and the an unscheduled landing was made in Akron, Ohio to save the day. Maybe United Airlines needs to check animals in like humans, boarding pass, etc.
I see a movie coming - IRGO - Flight to Nowhere!
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 10:50
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Cargo sales,
When my dog came into Gatwick in a cargo crate moons ago it could only be picked up by the Quarantine company. I went to the cargo shed to just check everything was OK to be greeted by shouts from the cargo guys on the top of boxes telling to look out there was a loose dog !!!
I put him back in the repaired crate and waited under an oath of sworn secrecy !! for the quarantine company to arrive.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 16:09
  #123 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by b1lanc View Post
I see a movie coming - IRGO - Flight to Nowhere!
Actually, Irgo was the German Shepherd who wound up in Japan instead of the intended destination of Kansas. So, I would suggest the film be titled "Irgo: Tokyo Drift."

Alternately, it could be called "Irgo, we're not in Kansas any more..."
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 16:12
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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I have seen no mention of where the family was seated. Were they in an exit or bulkhead row where everything, whether or not it contains an animal, has to go in an overhead?


Since the dog was of a breed with known respiratory inadequacy, would it have died anyway due to the increased cabin altitude?


Should the parent be condemned for buying the chid a toy from one of those mis-bred breeds?
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 16:41
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dairyground View Post
I have seen no mention of where the family was seated. Were they in an exit or bulkhead row where everything, whether or not it contains an animal, has to go in an overhead?


Since the dog was of a breed with known respiratory inadequacy, would it have died anyway due to the increased cabin altitude?


Should the parent be condemned for buying the chid a toy from one of those mis-bred breeds?
Many airlines I've flown with are fussy about who goes in exit rows - no kids or anyone who looks like they couldn't open the emergency door. This family was travelling with a child, a baby and a dog. I can't imagine a group less suited to the exit row. Presumably UA wouldn't have been dumb enough to seat them there?
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 16:46
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116 View Post
This is an appalling incident. Absolutely incredulously appalling . United has no leg to stand on and has apologized. There is however nothing that can be done to bring this animal back to life and no remedy to alleviate the tragedy in the eyes of a young girl who will forever remember this tragic occurence.

United should pay a VERY LARGE SUM to the family for their grief and take steps to ensure this does not happen again EVER.

NO dragging passengers off planes who are ticketed and let on board, no putting in pets in overhead bins PERIOD.

The Cabin crew responsible should not only be fired but also should be charged to the full extent of the law allowed for animal cruelty .

Plus she or he is not a very bright or compassionate human being.

Never had a pet of her/his own perhaps.
Just out of interest, what good would a VERY LARGE SUM do?

The dog is dead, no amount of money will bring it back. What amount of money would make the people feel better? Millions? Surely that is over the top for a dead dog, even if the carrier was at fault.

While we are placing blame, should the FA be held fully responsible? If the dog breed was not meant to fly then the family themselves share some of that blame, as does the check in agent who accepted the dog, as does the gate agent who boarded the passengers too. To pin all this on one person, although typical of today's ridiculous name, blame and shame (and eventually claim) culture, is wrong.

But in the USA money seems to make it all go away.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 17:40
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Although many bracycephalic breeds such as Frenchies have been over bred irresponsibly by greedy backyard breeders due to their popularity amongst celebrities, it should not be assumed that breathing issues affect animals bought from a reputable breeder.

There is no evidence to suggest that Kokito suffered from significant breathing issues; videos show him to have been a healthy, happy and playful little chap rather than a dog who suffered from such problems.

He was not 'a toy from one of those mis-bred breeds', as Dairyground suggests, he was a much-loved member of the family. He is more likely to have died from deprivation anxiety and stress than from lack of oxygen.

Personally I consider that Sr. Oscar Munoz himself should go and see Catalina Robledo and offer to provide Sophia Ceballas with another French Bulldog puppy - from a reputable breeder.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 23:43
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by edi_local View Post
Just out of interest, what good would a VERY LARGE SUM do?

The dog is dead, no amount of money will bring it back. What amount of money would make the people feel better? Millions? Surely that is over the top for a dead dog, even if the carrier was at fault.

While we are placing blame, should the FA be held fully responsible? If the dog breed was not meant to fly then the family themselves share some of that blame, as does the check in agent who accepted the dog, as does the gate agent who boarded the passengers too. To pin all this on one person, although typical of today's ridiculous name, blame and shame (and eventually claim) culture, is wrong.

But in the USA money seems to make it all go away.
A large sum will go a long ways towards PREVENTION of a similar incident. Because MONEY talks.

I am glad UA diverted a recent flight to a dog's destination. They did this to avert more bad publicity.

I hope they gave everyone onboard a free flight for their inconvenience.

Something that is troubling is that there seems no chain of command on an UA aircraft. Should an FA not refer to a Chief Purser or Senior Purser (CX speak) about this and not just make a decision on her/his own?

We are not out to demonize UA. Just to demonize airlines who make mistakes in the hope that mistakes can be minimized.

I don't think it should be millions for the dead dog but UA's offer of a refund of tickets and the $125 dollar fee for the dog's carriage as well as (get this ! ) a necropsy is clearly inadequate in my simple mind.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 06:09
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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United Airlines does not stipulate limitations on the carriage of brachycephalic dogs such as Frenchies. His carriage was fully within the airline's terms.

I doubt whether the owners knew about the health risk to their puppy posed by flying.
United had banned carriage during summer for brachycephalic animals, and reinstated carriage in September I think it was. Heaven forbid a passenger being allowed to exercise a freedom and not knowing the risks being accepted, grab me a lawyer, it's somebodies fault, I can't possibly accept responsibility myself. That the owners possibly didn't know about the breeds medical issues is an indictment on a lot of pet owners who just purchase a fashion item or a toy for the kids because its cute. Breathing problems are endemic in the breed and not a result of backyard breeders. More often than not many require operations to enable them to breath. Read the following for some of the problems the breed has, they can't even reproduce without intervention - artificial insemination and cesarean birth being the norm.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 07:58
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Without assigning blame, if you care about dogs or cats, don't own or encourage ownership of brachycephalic breeds.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...rge-dog-lovers

Now the British Veterinary Association (BVA) has launched a campaign dubbed #breedtobreathe to draw attention to the issues, revealing that a new survey of 671 vets found 75% of owners were unaware of the health problems of brachycephalic breeds before they chose their squashed-faced dog. Moreover the vets said just 10% of owners could spot health problems related to such breeds, with many thinking that problems including snorting were “normal” for such dogs.
https://www.bva.co.uk/news-campaigns...cephalic-dogs/

In the past ten years there has been a rapid rise in the number of brachycephalic breeds in the UK. BVA is concerned that this rise in numbers is leading to a population-based increase of ill health and compromised welfare in these breed types.
These problems include:
  • Anatomical defects of the upper airway causing breathing difficulties often associated with overheating, sleep apnoea and regurgitation eg. Brachycephalic Obstructive Airway Syndrome (BOAS)
  • Eye disease
  • Inability to mate or give birth naturally (requiring Caesarean section)
  • Repeated skin infections
  • Dental problems
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 10:53
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Although many bracycephalic breeds such as Frenchies have been over bred irresponsibly by greedy backyard breeders due to their popularity amongst celebrities, it should not be assumed that breathing issues affect animals bought from a reputable breeder.
The medical issues affect the breed as a whole, not just some specimens. The rate of cesarean births for this breed is over 80%, and many of them can't mate naturally either - they would rapidly die out without constant human intervention.

Vets make good money out of owners of breeds like this, but even they are campaigning against them now. It is a matter of debate whether "a reputable breeder" of such breeds can even exist.

There is no evidence to suggest that Kokito suffered from significant breathing issues; videos show him to have been a healthy, happy and playful little chap rather than a dog who suffered from such problems.
Not sure I know any vet who would diagnose (or confirm lack of) breathing, heart, or other brachycephalic problems from a video - would be interesting, and very useful, if such a service exists...

He was not 'a toy from one of those mis-bred breeds',
He was definitely from "one of those mis-bred breeds".

as Dairyground suggests, he was a much-loved member of the family. He is more likely to have died from deprivation anxiety and stress than from lack of oxygen.
Actually I'd put some money on heat stroke. The breed (and brachycephalic dogs in general) are known to have problems controlling body temperature. Pretty sure there is no aircon in the overhead lockers, confined in such a small space pretty much any mammal will start to overheat, most will then sweat but not dogs, dogs will open their mouths wide and stick their long tongues out to cool down. Unless they've been bred so that they can't, in which case they will just die.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 12:41
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116 View Post
A large sum will go a long ways towards PREVENTION of a similar incident. Because MONEY talks.
So the issue is not the emotional damage to the dog owner, but money.
What a surprise.
A large sum will also line the pockets of the law firm representing the dog owner, but that's just a minor detail.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 16:54
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DirtyProp View Post
So the issue is not the emotional damage to the dog owner, but money.
What a surprise.
Money is the calculus by which corporate entities evaluate decisions, policies, and practices. To the extent that failing to screen out crew who mistreat passengers starts costing them money, the airline will change its practices.

A large sum will also line the pockets of the law firm representing the dog owner, but that's just a minor detail.
Yes, that's how society compensates private entities like law firms for stepping up and taking care of matters that the regulators have failed to address.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 17:00
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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UAL, in a press release, said that all UAL crewmembers are trained that no animals are to ever be put in overhead bins. The "points guy", a frequent flyer webpage, says that animals will die if left in the overhead bin.

(UAL) This was a tragic accident that should never have occurred, as pets should never be placed in the overhead bin. We assume full responsibility for this tragedy and express our deepest condolences to the family and are committed to supporting them. We are thoroughly investigating what occurred to prevent this from ever happening again.
(the points guy) While the bin is pressurized, there’s no air circulation in the bins as there’s no expectation for a living animal to be placed inside.
Since then, UAL mixed up two dogs, and sent the dog bound for Wichita, Kansas, to Japan, and vice versa. UAL flew the dog in Japan back to Wichita on a private jet.

Next, UAL diverted a flight, because it mistakenly had a dog on it...the plane was diverted to where the dog was supposed to be going, and then the plane flew on to the original destination.

UAL has a new policy where all live animals' crate/luggage will have a specially coloured tag on it indicating it is a live animal.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 17:30
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by atpcliff View Post
UAL, in a press release, said that all UAL crewmembers are trained that no animals are to ever be put in overhead bins. The "points guy", a frequent flyer webpage, says that animals will die if left in the overhead bin.





Since then, UAL mixed up two dogs, and sent the dog bound for Wichita, Kansas, to Japan, and vice versa. UAL flew the dog in Japan back to Wichita on a private jet.

Next, UAL diverted a flight, because it mistakenly had a dog on it...the plane was diverted to where the dog was supposed to be going, and then the plane flew on to the original destination.

UAL has a new policy where all live animals' crate/luggage will have a specially coloured tag on it indicating it is a live animal.
Bravo to UNited for doing the right thing. NOw if the threat of monetary punishment was not there. Imagine them doing the right thing? I can't.
Corporations are all about money as essentially rightly pointed out by a previous poster.

It is ALL about the money. They do the wrong thing and it COSTS them? They will do the right thing. Otherwise? Fuggitabout it.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 17:41
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by atpcliff View Post
UAL has a new policy where all live animals' crate/luggage will have a specially coloured tag on it indicating it is a live animal.
I am pretty sure that very few passengers will pay to ship a dead animal.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 18:16
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116 View Post
A large sum will go a long ways towards PREVENTION of a similar incident. Because MONEY talks.

I am glad UA diverted a recent flight to a dog's destination. They did this to avert more bad publicity.

I hope they gave everyone onboard a free flight for their inconvenience.

Something that is troubling is that there seems no chain of command on an UA aircraft. Should an FA not refer to a Chief Purser or Senior Purser (CX speak) about this and not just make a decision on her/his own?

We are not out to demonize UA. Just to demonize airlines who make mistakes in the hope that mistakes can be minimized.

I don't think it should be millions for the dead dog but UA's offer of a refund of tickets and the $125 dollar fee for the dog's carriage as well as (get this ! ) a necropsy is clearly inadequate in my simple mind.
I think you are out to demonize UA. A free flight for a divert that would add what, about an hour to the flight time, if that? You'll not get a free flight for an hour delay on UA under normal circumstances, even if it was their fault.

The compensation is completely acceptable in my non sensationalist mind.

For the record I completely disagree that a VERY LARGE SUM will prevent this happening again. VERY LARGE SUMS are paid out by airlines every year for EU compensation money. Even on an individual basis people claim hundreds for tickets that cost barely half the amount. That doesn't deter cancellations, delays or oversales one bit.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 20:30
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gauges and Dials View Post
Money is the calculus by which corporate entities evaluate decisions, policies, and practices.
Same definition is applicable to those law firms for stepping up and taking care of matters that the regulators have failed to address.
No profit to be made = no stepping up.


Yes, that's how society compensates private entities like law firms for stepping up and taking care of matters that the regulators have failed to address.
I guess we can all forget about serving and administrating justice then.
Corporate greed = bad.
Lawyer's greed = good.
Funny, isn't it?
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 22:42
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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And now, only a few days after UA killed little Kokito, we learn that UA crew have been making tasteless jokes about 'dogs in the overheads' within ear shot of paying customers - see United Crew Allegedly Jokes About Dogs in Overheads After Scandal | PEOPLE.com .

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Old 20th Mar 2018, 00:11
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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A Doggone good job United ! IRgo got to fly back not just in any private jet but United's own corporate jet. Which probably had to be sent special for him. This can only come from the TOP.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/16/us/un...ome/index.html

I remain troubled why there was no chain of command on the flight with the dog in the over head bin? The FA should have referred the loading issue to her superior, two heads are better than one in most cases. And if they both decided the dog needs to be in the overhead bin then two heads can roll.
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