BA reveals 10 abreast 777
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Contrary to some opinions expressed here, I and many others choose comfort over price. We do this simply by avoiding flying at all for pleasure or short of attending my mother's funeral. In addition to the discomfort of a flight itself, there is going through security, boarding, parking, schedule uncertainties, and the many other indignities involved in modern air travel.
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Going back to 2010 I flew an open jaw return CDG/SIN (AF) then MNL/AMS (KL), my first times on B777's, AF was a -300 night flight with 10 across seating, perhaps the most uncomfortable flight I have ever had to endure, the return with KL was a -200 with 9 across seating ... ahhh, luxury ... Thereafter I believe KL went to 10 across seating also.
I swore then that in the future I shall NEVER fly in a 10 across B777 again, I shall check aircraft types and seat plans before booking, and it wasn't about fare, booking AF/KL (from/to CWL) I paid quite a significant fare and I'd have expected better.
I swore then that in the future I shall NEVER fly in a 10 across B777 again, I shall check aircraft types and seat plans before booking, and it wasn't about fare, booking AF/KL (from/to CWL) I paid quite a significant fare and I'd have expected better.
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Why do so many on here think that price is the only driver for ticket choice! Many many people I know, and myself included make conscious choices of cost vs. other factors.
What I do not usually get is an ecconomical choice between packed economy and business. What I really want is the lowest price possible then add 20-30% to give me a much more comfortable flight. I will pay more for my base ticket price for things like a 9 across 777 or food in the ticket price. I will also pay for exit row / bulkhead for leg room and ability to get up often without bothering others.
BUT I will not pay a stupid amount to move to business class at four times or even premium economy where the cost is double. I want more room than economy but to so good as in business or often overpriced premium economy.
To me the bigger problem is that the cost of the flight does not seem to fit the cost to operate it. Why is Westjet or Air Canada YYC - YYZ without food (or United YYC - ORD next week) about the same price as KLM YYC - AMS? Same thing transpacific.
Overall for those who do only focus on price I suspect the reason is that to them price is NOT an indicator of quality. They do not know to check seat guru so take the cheapest as it is just as likely to be the most comfortable as any of the others.
TME
What I do not usually get is an ecconomical choice between packed economy and business. What I really want is the lowest price possible then add 20-30% to give me a much more comfortable flight. I will pay more for my base ticket price for things like a 9 across 777 or food in the ticket price. I will also pay for exit row / bulkhead for leg room and ability to get up often without bothering others.
BUT I will not pay a stupid amount to move to business class at four times or even premium economy where the cost is double. I want more room than economy but to so good as in business or often overpriced premium economy.
To me the bigger problem is that the cost of the flight does not seem to fit the cost to operate it. Why is Westjet or Air Canada YYC - YYZ without food (or United YYC - ORD next week) about the same price as KLM YYC - AMS? Same thing transpacific.
Overall for those who do only focus on price I suspect the reason is that to them price is NOT an indicator of quality. They do not know to check seat guru so take the cheapest as it is just as likely to be the most comfortable as any of the others.
TME
TeachMe, the problem is you're not in the majority (that's probably true of most of the people who frequent PPRUNE). You and I check Seatguru, make a judgement of cost vs. comfort and convenience, in short we try to make an informed choice.
Sadly we are the exception, not the rule. Most of the SLF buy based on price, with a perhaps a slight consideration to schedule.
While I have no objection to saving money, I made the decision long ago that I'd try to base my buying decisions based on value, not just price. Sadly you and I will remain the minority for the foreseeable future.
Sadly we are the exception, not the rule. Most of the SLF buy based on price, with a perhaps a slight consideration to schedule.
While I have no objection to saving money, I made the decision long ago that I'd try to base my buying decisions based on value, not just price. Sadly you and I will remain the minority for the foreseeable future.
"Most of the SLF buy based on price, with a perhaps a slight consideration to schedule."
Precisely.
Precisely.
N4790P
Providing it's their own money. Very different with company cash. (Just rejected a claim that was almost double what it should have been because the claimer didn't care. He will in future! I could have booked a better class, direct flight cheaper.)
Why do people on here think that the public will ever shop by comfort over price? Price has become the prime factor for the majority in most purchases. The need to get a bargain supersedes all other considerations for many.
When I attempted to choose my seats, there was an exorbitant charge. The seat configuration is the same as economy as well.
I called BA to question the policy, given the fact I had paid so much more for my ticket, and the HUFFY agent explained I can choose the leftover seat 24 hours in advance for free. This policy is true for all classes of travel with BA. I feel somewhat ripped off and will not fly with them again.
The AA legs of the trip allowed me to choose seats for free.
I called BA to question the policy, given the fact I had paid so much more for my ticket, and the HUFFY agent explained I can choose the leftover seat 24 hours in advance for free. This policy is true for all classes of travel with BA. I feel somewhat ripped off and will not fly with them again.
The AA legs of the trip allowed me to choose seats for free.
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Price has become the prime factor for the majority in most purchases.
I do not expect BA to all of a sudden become as cheap as Icelandair across the atlantic, only because they now squeeze 10 SLF in a row.
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But when innocent, as I was of the B777 at the time, folk don't buy on price we expect a reasonable level of comfort for an overnight 12 hour sector ... BA would be another "no way" to my list but they were already on that list of mine already!
Just back from a total 30 hours Emirates B777, 10 abreast, no complaints.
And I've used their Business Class several times. You get what you pay for.
Per
And I've used their Business Class several times. You get what you pay for.
Per
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https://www.headforpoints.com/2018/0...ats-tiny-loos/
That doesn't look like fun either. Those ex BMI 321's had a great Business Class too!
That doesn't look like fun either. Those ex BMI 321's had a great Business Class too!
It would also probably depend on how 'big' you are. I've never had a problem with seat width, neither has my wife or children, hence we choose based on cost most of the time (as paying for flights for a family of 4 isn't cheap in the first place). We're not particularly fussy flyers.
If the flight was longer than, say, 5+ hours then I'd start looking at seatguru, for things like IFE, comfort and so on if I was taking the family away.
If the flight was longer than, say, 5+ hours then I'd start looking at seatguru, for things like IFE, comfort and so on if I was taking the family away.
Teachme - I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
I think BA is missing a bit of a trick personally. I think they could rationalise into two classes, business and economy but with the following product differentials:
1. A bargain basement economy class - 10 abreast 777 seating, with everything extra to the fare.
2. An enchanced economy with comfortable wide seats with better pitch and everything included, although not quite as spacious as WTP. A few rows of extra leg-room seats pre-bookable at a slight premium.
3. A budget Club Class with all the trimmings but with standard seats with a good recline. Slightly improved on current WTP seats.Maybe something along the lines of the Norwegian Premium seat on their 787s.
4. An enhanced Club Class with lie-flat beds but more spacious than current Club World.
This would rationalise the products, make them uniform across the fleet and stations and do away with WTP and First, with cost savings. Leisure aircraft (such as LGW-based 777s) could lose the enhanced Club cabin for a greater number of basic economy seats.
I really do think this would be a good way forward for the airline and enable it to get a lot more seats into each aircraft with little hit on yield. By my calculations they could get an extra 50-60 seats onto a 777-300ER and 40-50 onto a 787-9.
I think BA is missing a bit of a trick personally. I think they could rationalise into two classes, business and economy but with the following product differentials:
1. A bargain basement economy class - 10 abreast 777 seating, with everything extra to the fare.
2. An enchanced economy with comfortable wide seats with better pitch and everything included, although not quite as spacious as WTP. A few rows of extra leg-room seats pre-bookable at a slight premium.
3. A budget Club Class with all the trimmings but with standard seats with a good recline. Slightly improved on current WTP seats.Maybe something along the lines of the Norwegian Premium seat on their 787s.
4. An enhanced Club Class with lie-flat beds but more spacious than current Club World.
This would rationalise the products, make them uniform across the fleet and stations and do away with WTP and First, with cost savings. Leisure aircraft (such as LGW-based 777s) could lose the enhanced Club cabin for a greater number of basic economy seats.
I really do think this would be a good way forward for the airline and enable it to get a lot more seats into each aircraft with little hit on yield. By my calculations they could get an extra 50-60 seats onto a 777-300ER and 40-50 onto a 787-9.
Last edited by Doors to Automatic; 8th Mar 2018 at 16:43.
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Glad BA continues with it's determined quest to becoming just another LOCO. Glad because my limited staff travel facility with former employer has just expired and I have to go with the loco's like everyone else. Recent Paphos/Glasgow with Jet2 was pure delight & the cabin crew were prettier than BA. And that was only the stewards.
Seriously though; I've travelled many times on Emirates 10 abreast in the 777 and while obviously not as good as 9 abreast, they are at least bearable. A 3x4x3 777 will always be more comfortable than a 9 abreast Sardineliner which in my view set a new bar in discomfort. Indeed it holds the distinction of being the only type I'm aware of to have forced a redesign when BA pax finally hoofed it to the competition. Even then it was revamped 3x3x3 rather than revert to the original 2x4x2 design.
Comes down to an unremitting focus on shareholder value - which is what CEOs get paid on. So wherever possible the modern airline charges as much as they can get away with and provide as little as they can get away with... and while the pax keep on coming that is the way it will stay.
Last edited by birmingham; 8th Mar 2018 at 15:00.
Teachme - I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
I think BA is missing a bit of a trick personally. I think they could rationalise into two classes, business and economy but with the following product differentials:
1. A bargain basement economy class - 10 abreast 777 seating, with everything extra to the fare.
2. An enchanced economy with comfortable wide seats with better pitch and everything included, although not quite as spacious as WTP. A few rows of extra leg-room seats pre-bookable at a slight premium.
3. A budget Club Class with all the trimmings but with standard seats with a good recline. Slightly improved on current WTP seats.Maybe something along the lines of the Norwegian Premium seat on their 787s.
4. An enhanced Club Class with lie-flat beds but more spacious than current Club World.
This would rationalise the products, make them uniform across the fleet and stations and do away with WTP and First, with cost savings. Leisure aircraft (such as LGW-based 777s) could lose the enchanced Club cabin for a greater number of basic economy seats.
I really do think this would be a good way forward for the airline and enable it to get a lot more seats into each aircraft with little hit on yield. By my calculations they could get an extra 50-60 seats onto a 777-300ER and 40-50 onto a 787-9.
I think BA is missing a bit of a trick personally. I think they could rationalise into two classes, business and economy but with the following product differentials:
1. A bargain basement economy class - 10 abreast 777 seating, with everything extra to the fare.
2. An enchanced economy with comfortable wide seats with better pitch and everything included, although not quite as spacious as WTP. A few rows of extra leg-room seats pre-bookable at a slight premium.
3. A budget Club Class with all the trimmings but with standard seats with a good recline. Slightly improved on current WTP seats.Maybe something along the lines of the Norwegian Premium seat on their 787s.
4. An enhanced Club Class with lie-flat beds but more spacious than current Club World.
This would rationalise the products, make them uniform across the fleet and stations and do away with WTP and First, with cost savings. Leisure aircraft (such as LGW-based 777s) could lose the enchanced Club cabin for a greater number of basic economy seats.
I really do think this would be a good way forward for the airline and enable it to get a lot more seats into each aircraft with little hit on yield. By my calculations they could get an extra 50-60 seats onto a 777-300ER and 40-50 onto a 787-9.
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This is probably to align themselves with new shareholder Delta who have had this for a while and whose very frequent fliers get it and expect it for free (as do their competitor's VFF on UA & AA). Virgin don't use the 777 so no 3x4x3 comparison here - their Sardineliner economy layout is just as miserable as BA's however, narrow hard seats - apparently it's progress.
Last edited by birmingham; 8th Mar 2018 at 15:45.