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AirTransat pax phone 911 after 5hrs on tarmac, aircon stops when fuel exhausted

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AirTransat pax phone 911 after 5hrs on tarmac, aircon stops when fuel exhausted

Old 3rd Aug 2017, 02:31
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Derfred View Post
What investigation?
Confirmed today in newspapers and by AT that an official investigation is now opened.

The passengers were aboard the aircraft on the ground in Ottawa for almost 6 hours.
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 14:34
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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This seems a regular occurrence in North America, where handling agents are somewhat lacking compared to the services they can supply in Europe; airlines seem to self-handle to a greater extent there, and come a diversion things all fall apart. This applies right through to use of gates, and everything else. Presumably when the APU shut down there was no agent able to hook up a generator. I bet the toilets stopped working as well.

It shouldn't need regulating, but the level of indifference shown by head offices unfortunately seems to show that it needs to be.
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 20:37
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kewbick View Post
What is wrong with the Ottawa airport terminal?
Yes, do tell.

As for the airport authority not helping....or no stairs being available....

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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 22:59
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Waterpilot asked
Does the APU really burn 75 gallons of jet fuel per hour (if my calculation of 2000 pounds equivalent is right)?
A typical widebodied airliner APU burns approximately 300 kgs of jet fuel per hour on the ground or 660 lbs. If needed during flight it is more efficient at cruise altitude and uses approx 100 kgs or 220 lbs per hour.
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 23:54
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Can someone explain the cockpit crew thinking, Well, let's sit here for 6 hours?

At some point I would just say Screw it, call for the stairs and busses.
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 00:25
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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A Boeing 777 APU uses 240 to 300 kg an hour.
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 02:31
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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How many planes diverted to Ottawa ?
YOW is not that big, could it be that air transat was temporarily parked on a taxiway with one engine running. One engine burns 4 times what an APU does ...
Anyway, the very first thing an airplane requires after a diversion is fuel, then there must be a reason why that fuel took a while to be loaded ... ?
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 09:57
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mad (Flt) Scientist View Post
Isn't that 30 minutes a requirement when planning the flight.

There must, logically, be circumstances where it acceptable to use your "reserve" and land practically empty, otherwise it's not really "reserve fuel", it's ballast!

I'd have thought it very possible they arrived at Montreal, their intended destination, with a perfectly acceptable fuel remaining, but then the combination of a hold at montreal (which may have exceeded the nominal hold for planning?) and then the diversion to ottawa used up most of that fuel?
Yes, but then it is a mandatory "mayday" when expecting to land with less than 30 minutes fuel. Did they declare? Also, would you not order immediate refueling and not wait 5 hours?

I know that the apu uses only one main tank, having flown the entire Boeing family, so it does not mean they had no fuel at all, just one main tank empty. I have no knowledge about airbus systems.

Last edited by sleeper; 4th Aug 2017 at 09:59. Reason: Grammar
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 10:37
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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simple human psychology

I'm sure this is the simple stuff that Captains get to make decisions on every day. The crew probably expected to sit tight for an hour then be off, then that hour went to 2 hours, but then at the end of the 2 hours something else cropped up "be off in 30 minutes" so sit tight etc. And at the end of 6 hours, and no doubt with the pilots talking to Head Office about options, they finally get off.

It's easy in hindsight to say they should have immediately deplaned, but I bet the crew didn't honestly think it would take 6 hours to set off again. If they had known that at the beginning I like to think they would have deplaned.
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 11:09
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Can the A330 use the right main tank to feed the APU?
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 14:18
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Reports in Canada make it sound like Air Transat could have gotten assistance for the plane, despite all the other planes (20 or 30, not clear) that diverted to Ottawa (only a medium sized airport one might say).

"The airline said the airport staff were unable to provide bridges to allow the plane to be unloaded and there were delays both in refuelling the aircraft and refilling the drinking water reservoir.
The Ottawa International Airport Authority disputes those claims, saying closer to 20 planes were diverted and all other planes were refuelled and on their way within three hours, most within the first hour or two.
The airport authority said there was both a gate and air stairs available, and they were prepared to bring supplies beyond just bottled water to the stranded passengers — but never received clearance from Air Transat."

So there's a bit of a war of words about who was responsible for what.

As for what "rights" passengers might have:
"In a written statement Wednesday, the transportation agency said it was launching an inquiry to determine whether Air Transat respected its tariff — a document that sets out, among other things, an airline's rights and responsibilities toward its passengers.
According to that tariff, in the case of an on-board delay more than 90 minutes, Air Transat promises to offer passengers the option of getting off the plane."

Source:
How paramedics responded to 911 calls from Air Transat passengers stranded in Ottawa - Ottawa - CBC News
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 15:07
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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The Ottawa International Airport Authority disputes those claims, saying closer to 20 planes were diverted and all other planes were refuelled and on their way within three hours, most within the first hour or two.
So, what made that specific aircraft was not able to benefit from the same service ... ?
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 16:41
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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There was a post earlier about duty time. Could it have been that the transat crew was actually out of time, so while other a/c were able to leave again after a couple of hours, the transat plane was stuck, perhaps waiting for a replacement crew to drive up from Montreal (a good two hours drive in the conditions, i would say, never mind tracking down a crew to start with)

Just a random thought.
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 16:52
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cough View Post
Can the A330 use the right main tank to feed the APU?
Directly no. It's fed from the left tank. But of course fuel can be transferred.
The APU consumption with GEN and AC use is around 215 kg/h.
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 17:00
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Now if they were out of hours and had the passengers been informed they might have got away with it. And as a plan that might have worked. Even if a "guessed" fuel load was uplifted at least the lights would not have gone out. But someone, somewhere forgot to think about the about all the practicalities of looking after a plane load of passengers for a several hours. Things like water, toilet service, food, drink etc. have to be considered. Having little other information other than Ottawa airport saying they could have helped and a passenger dialling 911 all we really know is that this was an almighty cock-up.
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 18:56
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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We diverted from Montreal at about the same time, we fueled , provided refreshments, had a tug hooked up to move us, {a certain aircraft blocked us by rank stupid parking, no prize for guessing which aircraft} and were on our way to Montreal within about one hour {I'm just guising on this time frame} A great flight all round with both flight deck and cabin crew knowing how to handle such events. We were a Trans Atlantic flight by the way. What a bad joke some of these outfits are!
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 20:21
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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You were fueled, they were not ... Major difference for a sane continuation of the day.
Not too sure what the outfit or the crew had to do with it ... ?
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Old 5th Aug 2017, 10:59
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by standbykid View Post
So while not nearly as bad as the other day for those traveling AT, don't expect EU style compensation.
This flight originated in Brussels, which the last time I looked was still in the EU. Hence this flight falls under EU regulations. In this case, the delay was caused, initially, by bad weather, hence, no monetary compensation for passengers (exceptional circumstances). But the airline still had an obligation to provide basic comfort-level items such as water and air conditioning while they waited, and deplane after five hours on tarmac.
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Old 5th Aug 2017, 21:33
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mad (Flt) Scientist View Post
There was a post earlier about duty time. Could it have been that the transat crew was actually out of time, so while other a/c were able to leave again after a couple of hours, the transat plane was stuck, perhaps waiting for a replacement crew to drive up from Montreal (a good two hours drive in the conditions, i would say, never mind tracking down a crew to start with)

Just a random thought.
The CARS say max Flt plan time 14 hrs under situations like this you can go 15 hrs and
under abnormal situations such as this up to 17 hours duty time
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Old 12th Aug 2017, 02:50
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Uhhh no, 17 hrs is a split duty day. As soon as they wer on the ground and chocks in they were now no longer unforeseen, it would be interesting what TC says wrt fdtl
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