BA delays at LHR - Computer issue
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So what's the best guess at getting back to 'business as usual'...and I'm trusting that Ppruners will provide a better answer than BA just now!
Does an internal flight this coming Sunday, connecting to Transatlantic flight, stand a reasonable chance of success (and yes, I have a vested interest :-) )?
Does an internal flight this coming Sunday, connecting to Transatlantic flight, stand a reasonable chance of success (and yes, I have a vested interest :-) )?
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Easy, you mirror the uncommitted database queue as much as is feasible.
One changeover you have a procedure to immediately process that queue, and if a few bits get missed then you deal with it in the field and accept that loss.
If you have to restart procedures for certain events (passenger boarding for instance) ... then these are isolated and expedited. Meaning 5 plane loads of passengers are disembarked and reembarked.
In other words every part of the procedure is planned for.
Nothing is out of process.
And practiced, a failure is just another day at work.
If airlines do not do this, they are completely irresponsible.
This is normal.
One changeover you have a procedure to immediately process that queue, and if a few bits get missed then you deal with it in the field and accept that loss.
If you have to restart procedures for certain events (passenger boarding for instance) ... then these are isolated and expedited. Meaning 5 plane loads of passengers are disembarked and reembarked.
In other words every part of the procedure is planned for.
Nothing is out of process.
And practiced, a failure is just another day at work.
If airlines do not do this, they are completely irresponsible.
This is normal.
What is on the face of it a simple task becomes difficult very quickly.
I'd add that even a planned scheduled datacenter swap is replete with many considerations.
I've seen an uncommanded one take down a bank for 6 hours back in the day.
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A number of contributors have blamed the Accountants for this outage, e.g. excessive cost cutting, lack of funds for IT kit. In defence of my profession, the BA Board makes the strategic, financial and operational decisons for the airline. It is there where you should be pointing the finger (as well as the Head of IT!).
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BigFrank - I was quoting the BBC - they also have this on their website
EU flight delay rights
EU flight delay rights
- If your flight departed from within the European Union or was with a European airline, you might have rights under EU law to claim if the delay or cancellation was within the airline's control.
- Short-haul flights: 250 euros for delays of more than three hours
- Medium-haul flights: 400 euros for delays of more than three hours
- Long-haul flights: 300 euros for delays of between three and four hours; and 600 euros for delays of more than four hours
- If your flight's delayed for two or more hours the airline must offer food and drink, access to phone calls and emails, and accommodation if you're delayed overnight - including transfers between the airport and the hotel.
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BigFrank - I was quoting the BBC - they also have this on their website
EU flight delay rights
EU flight delay rights
- If your flight departed from within the European Union or was with a European airline, you might have rights under EU law to claim if the delay or cancellation was within the airline's control.
- Short-haul flights: 250 euros for delays of more than three hours
- Medium-haul flights: 400 euros for delays of more than three hours
- Long-haul flights: 300 euros for delays of between three and four hours; and 600 euros for delays of more than four hours
- If your flight's delayed for two or more hours the airline must offer food and drink, access to phone calls and emails, and accommodation if you're delayed overnight - including transfers between the airport and the hotel.
As for believing either Auntie or the Dirty Digger.......
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There is a man who had great vision for BA. He was liked by all and was customer service to his bones. He wanted to invest in service which cost money and so it was suggested by those above that maybe he would be better suited to a position outside of BA. One of the finest men we have ever had on the leadership team and a tragic loss when he left.
His name is Frank Van der Post. I think the staff should start a bring back Frank campaign ....
His name is Frank Van der Post. I think the staff should start a bring back Frank campaign ....
NWSRG
Don't quote me on it but looking at things I'd say yes, as long as nothing else goes wrong in the meantime.
.......FWIW I'm keeping a close eye on a Short Haul flight I've got vested interests in towards the end of this week and that is looking OK at the moment.
Does an internal flight this coming Sunday, connecting to Transatlantic flight, stand a reasonable chance of success (and yes, I have a vested interest :-) )?
.......FWIW I'm keeping a close eye on a Short Haul flight I've got vested interests in towards the end of this week and that is looking OK at the moment.
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At last...a glimmer of hope that at least one person in BA understands how to look after passengers and achieve a small but significant PR event:
"BA Captain Stephen Wearing drove one of his passengers home after the elderly man with cancer had been delayed for hours."
From an elderly and well retired non-BA captain...well done sport.
...and let's hope that some of the people in your firm that are paid to do PR get their fingers out and follow your example!
"BA Captain Stephen Wearing drove one of his passengers home after the elderly man with cancer had been delayed for hours."
From an elderly and well retired non-BA captain...well done sport.
...and let's hope that some of the people in your firm that are paid to do PR get their fingers out and follow your example!
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A number of contributors have blamed the Accountants for this outage, e.g. excessive cost cutting, lack of funds for IT kit. In defence of my profession, the BA Board makes the strategic, financial and operational decisons for the airline. It is there where you should be pointing the finger (as well as the Head of IT!).
The majority of shareholdings are of orgainsations such as pension funds and investment companies acting on behalf of their clients who also want more more return and lower charges.
So in the end the real culprits are those pensioners, investors and the general public who demand higher returns from their savings or they will take their money away and put it where the returns are better and/or the costs are cheaper.
in other words ALL OF US.
If one books a ticket and doesn't turn up the ticket is cancelled and you lose your money. After this fiasco, I would suggest that if an airline cannot carry out the contract terms and a pax returns home, especially as there is no airport accommodation, then the airline should give a full refund and compensation. If this is now the case, I stand to be corrected but I bet it isn't.
One statement from BA made it sound as though they were doing their much delayed passengers some great favour rebooking them or refunding their money. I feel sure any Court in the land would find in the passengers favour in the circumstances that have prevailed over the weekend i.e. passenger turns up, airline cannot provide the contracted service due to their problems, I was going to say incompetence then decided to be kind !!!
Haven't flown on BA for years but it is really is sad to seeing them going down the pan, like this. Flew BA (well BOAC ) for the first time fifty years ago this year. No problem with that flight, that I recall. Britannia 102 NBO - LHR.
Haven't flown on BA for years but it is really is sad to seeing them going down the pan, like this. Flew BA (well BOAC ) for the first time fifty years ago this year. No problem with that flight, that I recall. Britannia 102 NBO - LHR.
Obviously BA is a business and businesses exist to make a profit but in order to do that they have to fulfil their primary function. If you are a major global business providing a significant part of the worlds and your home countries infrastructure though you cannot just put profit and shareholders first. Sometimes this is imposed by regualtion and sometimes not. The Uk favours a laissez faire approach as a rule, one of the reason some dislike the EU, no more compensation after 2019??.
Anyway there has to be a method or model that prevents those who put pressure on organisations for year on year profit increases and cost cuts. These are largely financial instititions who we have found in recent years to be seriously delinquent in pretty much anything they touch but very greedy. As a pensioner I want my pension to increase but not in a way that gives me an increase every year and then collapses , people running these funds need to understand that there are short term and long term businesses. An airline is long term-order an aircraft now get it in 2-3 years. Airlines are subject to all kinds of uncontrolled events -politics, wars volcanic ash clouds and the weather in general .
So although i want my pension to increase I do not expect my provider to engage in what i call the three year olds strategy of just shouting more more more ate mum or dad and crying if it doesnt get more. There is no skill in that. In the case of BA their management have sold their souls to the market , forgotten their customers and bully their staff into worse and worse conditions while taking more and more money themselves.
They have been found out this time, whatever the cause it is essentially their fault for taking a risk on outsourcing and its come back to haunt them and done every very severe harm to a brand that took decades to build. Senior management build a people model in their own image, they want people who are like them and dispose of critics or experienced professionals as the are 'out of step' with the 'modern British Airways etc etc. An MBA case study for years to come but I doubt that much will be elarned from it
Anyway there has to be a method or model that prevents those who put pressure on organisations for year on year profit increases and cost cuts. These are largely financial instititions who we have found in recent years to be seriously delinquent in pretty much anything they touch but very greedy. As a pensioner I want my pension to increase but not in a way that gives me an increase every year and then collapses , people running these funds need to understand that there are short term and long term businesses. An airline is long term-order an aircraft now get it in 2-3 years. Airlines are subject to all kinds of uncontrolled events -politics, wars volcanic ash clouds and the weather in general .
So although i want my pension to increase I do not expect my provider to engage in what i call the three year olds strategy of just shouting more more more ate mum or dad and crying if it doesnt get more. There is no skill in that. In the case of BA their management have sold their souls to the market , forgotten their customers and bully their staff into worse and worse conditions while taking more and more money themselves.
They have been found out this time, whatever the cause it is essentially their fault for taking a risk on outsourcing and its come back to haunt them and done every very severe harm to a brand that took decades to build. Senior management build a people model in their own image, they want people who are like them and dispose of critics or experienced professionals as the are 'out of step' with the 'modern British Airways etc etc. An MBA case study for years to come but I doubt that much will be elarned from it
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Sack Cruz for total incompetence and lets bring back what was famous.There have been bad CEO's but this one is unreal.No guts to speak out.
Come on Willy get rid of him.
Come on Willy get rid of him.
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According to someone who knows someone ... this is not a simple power failure. There has been a "failure" of core routers via the power supplies/backup power supplies to these routers. A targeted attack has not been ruled out. In some areas the network has up to six levels of resiliency, and these outer resilient layers have been targeted first.
This has been across multiple data centres, not all in the UK. In fact the primary UK data centre was the last to fall off the network. The underlying applications are mostly available, but inaccessible due to the network being down.
This has been across multiple data centres, not all in the UK. In fact the primary UK data centre was the last to fall off the network. The underlying applications are mostly available, but inaccessible due to the network being down.
Also, I wouldn't call something 'mostly available' if it was completely inaccessible.
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One statement from BA made it sound as though they were doing their much delayed passengers some great favour rebooking them or refunding their money. I feel sure any Court in the land would find in the passengers favour in the circumstances that have prevailed over the weekend i.e. passenger turns up, airline cannot provide the contracted service due to their problems, I was going to say incompetence then decided to be kind !!!
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Heathrow Harry, I thank you for making this thread.
BA has been on the decline for many a year now. Willie Walsh was an awful CEO and everyone truly believed that it couldn't have gotten any worse, but low and behold, the hi-viz wearing Alex Cruz arrived and somehow Willie Walsh stepped into IAG!!
The aviation industry (like many other industries recently, such as retail and IT) is filled with so much competition from low-cost that these major carriers have to remember that service can beat cost. However, BA seems to have forgotten that because their service is rubbish and that's why they're losing out to the LCCs!
Maybe if Alex Cruz auctioned off his hi-vis jacket then that may pay for all of the upcoming compensation/reimbursement claims!!!
And boys and girls, when I first read about this story and how LHR and LGW were full to the brim of people, I honestly believed that it could have been a planned cyber attack by a well known terrorist organisation so that they could rock up to the airports with suicide bombs/guns and have literally thousands of people! But luckily this was not the case and hopefully security at these airports have been stepped up to bear in mind the mass crowds! But knowing our government and (lack of) intelligent services, they probably never thought of that just like they never thought a "British" Libyan with terrorist links to family members who recently visited Libya and Iraq could never carry out a terrorist attack!!!! /rantover.
BA has been on the decline for many a year now. Willie Walsh was an awful CEO and everyone truly believed that it couldn't have gotten any worse, but low and behold, the hi-viz wearing Alex Cruz arrived and somehow Willie Walsh stepped into IAG!!
The aviation industry (like many other industries recently, such as retail and IT) is filled with so much competition from low-cost that these major carriers have to remember that service can beat cost. However, BA seems to have forgotten that because their service is rubbish and that's why they're losing out to the LCCs!
Maybe if Alex Cruz auctioned off his hi-vis jacket then that may pay for all of the upcoming compensation/reimbursement claims!!!
And boys and girls, when I first read about this story and how LHR and LGW were full to the brim of people, I honestly believed that it could have been a planned cyber attack by a well known terrorist organisation so that they could rock up to the airports with suicide bombs/guns and have literally thousands of people! But luckily this was not the case and hopefully security at these airports have been stepped up to bear in mind the mass crowds! But knowing our government and (lack of) intelligent services, they probably never thought of that just like they never thought a "British" Libyan with terrorist links to family members who recently visited Libya and Iraq could never carry out a terrorist attack!!!! /rantover.
I suspect BA's Terms & Conditions of carriage have a paragraph which runs along the lines of 'we will endeavour to get to you your destination, but in the event of force majeure (such as a Volanic Ash Cloud, lightening strike compromising our IT servers), tough titty'.
A typical yes and no answer coming up. If BA offered to restore the passenger to their original position, i.e. rebook or refund, and the passenger refused, I doubt very much that a Court would find in the passenger's favour. If the passenger accepted BA's offer, then no further action. If the passenger went for financial losses incurred due to the strike, I suspect BA would either settle the matter based on its merits or turn around and say 'sod off' if the claim was unreasonable. I suspect BA's Terms & Conditions of carriage have a paragraph which runs along the lines of 'we will endeavour to get to you your destination, but in the event of force majeure (such as a Volanic Ash Cloud, lightening strike compromising our IT servers), tough titty'.
I am NOT a lawyer. My question, were I involved, would relate to "force majeure". BA's IT system breaking down does not on the face of it look like "force majeure" in the way the volcanoes erupting certainly does.
However, BA seems to have forgotten that because their service is rubbish and that's why they're losing out to the LCCs!
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Guys, why are people arguing over the compensation claims as if it's not a black and white issue?
The fact of the matter is, BA WILL have to pay out compensation to passengers as stated under EU Regulations.
If a flight has been delayed or cancelled and it is due to something which BA could have controlled, then compensation is due! In this case, IT system failure is something which BA had control over. Plain and simple.
Why is that hi-viz wearing Alex Cruz not downstairs supporting his front line staff right now and instead hiding away in the OPS CONTROL ROOM pretending to work/sending out tweets/emails?
The fact of the matter is, BA WILL have to pay out compensation to passengers as stated under EU Regulations.
If a flight has been delayed or cancelled and it is due to something which BA could have controlled, then compensation is due! In this case, IT system failure is something which BA had control over. Plain and simple.
Why is that hi-viz wearing Alex Cruz not downstairs supporting his front line staff right now and instead hiding away in the OPS CONTROL ROOM pretending to work/sending out tweets/emails?