BA delays at LHR - Computer issue

[SunnyUpHere]

I sometimes wonder how securely is a cost-cutting mentality "partitioned", so it never applies to aircraft maintenance?

[Ian W]

Originally Posted by slingsby

So, the original art of manual loadsheets, manual check-in, cabin crew actually physically counting SLF on board has died.

I do recall, not so many moons ago, actually practicing this exact scenario, not for BA fortunately, but another EGLL carrier. Yes, minor delays, some inconvenience but an effective proof the pencil and paper still has a very prominent place in today's modern technological era.

Me, always one never to rely solely on IT, especially outsourced and someone who I cant shout at if it goes wrong.....

Even IFF you can find someone still capable of manual load sheets, manual check in (and luggage accounting) and physically counting SLF and checking their manually written boarding passes; It is actually a matter of getting the right information that information such as who actually booked that flight and their information and the tail number's quirks and fuel state etc etc., are all buried away in the IT system that is in pieces around the IT staff's feet in Chennai. Without that information what do you do run a first come first served system? And T5 has an automated baggage routing system that probably is not too good on handwriting recognition.

Whether we like it or not the systems have been set up to rely absolutely on the IT systems. While Cruz style management believe, like you, that IT is completely unimportant and can be outsourced to the cheapest bidder. This clash of attitudes was certain to lead to the failures we have seen at Delta, United and BA. Ideally, the board should have the CEOs of these companies meet their office content in cardboard boxes immediately after such a failure complete with total loss of all benefits and share options which should in any case be paid into escrow until an unsullied retirement. CEOs should have a list of events flagged with 'if this happens you are toast'; a system wide computer melt down is one of those instances.

[Ian W]

Originally Posted by SunnyUpHere

I sometimes wonder how securely is a cost-cutting mentality "partitioned", so it never applies to aircraft maintenance?

It is not.

[SeenItAll]

Originally Posted by Sonny_Jim

I'm going to hazard a guess here and say that you don't work in IT.

IT spending is bottom of the list as most management can't see the benefit of spending all that money on 1's and 0's. Until something like this happens.

They obviously had b*gger all redundancy as a 'power failure' at a single site managed to completely nuke their worldwide operations.

You seem to be relying rather heavily on a tweet that a power failure (or which there can be many reasons and sources) is the cause. I sincerely hope that the investigators of this incident probe more deeply than you seem to think necessary.

[WHBM]

Just to head off those who say that extreme cost cutting is "necessary" to compete with newer carriers (not necessarily LoCo) on fares, I will quote from the pricing for myself and a colleague for a round trip next week, in Y, at key business hours from London to Dublin. One on CityJet from London City, a "high cost" airport with a "high cost" BAe146/RJ, the other BA from Heathrow on a presumably more efficient A320. Exactly parallel flight times to rendezvous at destination, booked at the same moment.

CityJet ex LCY £280.91
BA ex LHR £454.50

I'm forgetting that Cityjet give me a snack and a drink. BA ?

[qwertyuiop]

Changing the conversation slightly.
Working on rough estimates and best guesses, I reckon that this will cost BA more than €100,000,000 just via EU261.
Unbelievable and some serious ass kicking needed! Having flown with a few long and short haul airlines recently I have to say BA don't score very highly in any category. Unlike some others I hope the survive, change and prosper!

[BigFrank]

It was Maggie wot did it !

Whilst in no way surprising, it is still ever so slightly disappointing to see quite how many posters on here have no idea whatsoever of the company involved in this fiasco.

Yes I know it used to be called BOAC/ BEA, and IMPERIAL Airways before that but, to quote my friend Wiki:

International Consolidated Airlines Group, S.A., often shortened to IAG, is a Spanish multinational airline holding company with its operational headquarters in London, England, United Kingdom and officially registered in Madrid, Spain.

A glance at the current list of directors and an exceedingly superficial analysis thereof leads me to conclude tentatively of the nationalities of the current board:

5/12 Spanish (including Chairman)
1/12 French
1/12 Irish (CEO)
5/12 British

though as the Frenchman is resident in Chelsea, we (sic) have the preponderance over the Spanish; morally if not quite numerically.

Next AGM in Madrid (natch, see above) in mid June with live streaming online.

Time to dig out those old shares ex-BA and hop on the AVE that morning for a jolly in New Castile?

Which reminds me, when I came to live here, BA were the only company who couldn't put my new address on to their database. ¡ No matter how many times I reminded them !

And since IAG finally started paying a dividend about 18 months back, trying to get the pesetas into the bank has been a nightmare.

[Walnut]

Looking at the flts canx today plus huge delays on many flts that did get away I predict tomorrow will be fairly chaotic

[zed3]

Have had some good flights and deals from BA in the past. Always respected BA for the service and also being the national carrier... in the past. BUT, after this and other (lesser?) fiascos I will never spend my monies on BA in the future. A lot of (so called) managers futures should be on the line now, especially at the top. Money is not everything, is BA a national carrier or not? Pride before a fall... or after a fall comes to mind, also how do they now get out of it. This has gone on for far too long.

[UV]

YAWN ...not my problem.....they have been on my NO FLY LIST for several years...and staying there .

[Cows getting bigger]

I occasionally fly BA (when my employer decides) and they certainly aren't the BA of old. Whilst the aircraft are still good, nonsense such as 9-seat rows in the 787 demonstrates a change of focus away from being the World's Favourite Airline. More importantly, you always recieved excellent service from BA staff, especially cabin crew. Now it is a bit of a lottery and there is certainly an air of apathy, visibly demonstrated by a lack of attention to detail and, dare I say it, less care about personal appearance.

Many will say that my observations are petty, insignificant and don't reflect the 'bottom line'. However, if your front-of-house staff aren't selling the brand then you have a major issue; staff demeanour is a really good indicator of the strength of a company.

[BEagle]

I note that the ba website states:

Please keep any food, transport or accommodation receipts and you can make a claim in due course through our Customer Relations teams.

Whereas the CAA has already issued its own statement:

Commenting on the delays and cancellations affecting British Airways passengers, Matt Buffey, Head of Consumer Protection at the Civil Aviation Authority, said:

"Passengers affected by the disruption to British Airways' flights are protected under EU law. The welfare of passengers must be the priority for any airline experiencing disruption and we fully expect all UK airlines to meet their obligations.

Passengers who are currently caught up in this disruption should be informed of their legal rights by British Airways, but they can find out the full details of their rights during delays and cancellations by visiting the CAA website."

So waiting for ba to sort out claims through fistfuls of receipts won't be an adequate response. The CAA has clearly decided that ba's passenger delays were not caused by 'extraordinary circumstances'; the EU law on flight compensation uses the term 'extraordinary circumstances' to refer to situations where delays or cancellations have been caused by things that are not the responsibility of the airline, whereas the airline clearly is responsible for its IT systems having sufficient resilience and redundancy.

Thus full compensation under EU law must be paid.

[Self Loading Freight]

Digging around and finding not much yet, except suggestions that it's problems with SIP (Service Integrated Platform) and that perhaps decisions taken around the time of the Iberia integration may be coming home to roost (or they would be, if they had managed to get their slots in the first place). I suspect axes may be grinding here but still, dig one must...

[dpsilverba]

Originally Posted by UV

YAWN ...not my problem.....they have been on my No Fly List for several years...and staying there .

Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to inform us of this.

[A320ECAM]

Alex Cruz nearly caused the collapse of Vueling and now he is about to cause the collapse of BA.

...and in response to somebody asking why Alex Cruz was wearing a hi-viz inside during his interview on Sky News, it's because he wears it to bed as well. And in the shower too.

[pax2908]

Originally Posted by BEagle

The CAA clearly ...

Full compensation must be paid? I am not sure. At least, I am aware of opinions that They (management) don't know what they are doing, therefore not in control. If true, it should not be too difficult for them to argue along these lines.

[Caribbean Boy]

Isn't BA's main data centre in Boudicea House near Hatton Cross, with an unmanned data centre in nearby Cranebank? If there was a failure of hardware or software in Boudicea House, I would have expected the operation to run from Cranebank. There is UPS in both buildings, so how could a power supply issue cause such massive failure.

[Cazalet33]

The power supply excuse doesn't quite sound credible for such a wide ranging series of failures.

[Caribbean Boy]

There has been some discussion about outsourcing. I recall that in 2008 I, along with several others, were kicked out of the IT department (known then as Information Management) for cost cutting reasons. One of the things we were told was that some of the four IT contractors would also be going.

Hang on, four? What about the hundreds of people from TCS and NIIT who were working in the department? Some had been at BA for a long time, one of them that I knew well had settled in the UK and bought a house. The answer was that they were not contractors, they provided a fixed price service. Oh, well, silly me for not recognising contractors when I see them.

[BigFrank]

EU261/ 2004

Originally Posted by BEagle

The CAA has clearly decided that ba's passenger delays were not caused by 'extraordinary circumstances'; the EU law on flight compensation uses the term 'extraordinary circumstances' to refer to situations where delays or cancellations have been caused by things that are not the responsibility of the airline, whereas the airline clearly is responsible for its IT systems having sufficient resilience and redundancy.

Thus full compensation under EU law must be paid.

Well you are clear in your mind that "extraordinary circumstances" do not obtain. And you tell us, with the utmost confidence, that the UK CAA shares this opinion.


I wonder whether Willie and Alex, not to mention Antonio, Enrique, Dame Marjorie and the Baroness will be impressed.

Where was it, again, that you said that you had studied European Commercial and Administrative Law?