American Airlines pax hit with stroller

[p.j.m]

Originally Posted by Gauges and Dials

You don't hit a mother carrying her child in her arms. Period.

No one said that happened, except for the unruly passenger who took it upon himself to berate and threaten the atendant. The only "evidence" was from a First Class passenger who saw what happened, and said it was the result of a struggle for the stroller.

[parabellum]

Did the crew deliberately use the double width stroller as a weapon to hit the mother? Was the mother trying to put the stroller in an overhead bin, it wouldn't fit, the crew tried to remove it whilst the mother tried to push it back, the crew took his hands away and the stroller fell and hit the mother? (both scenarios alluded to by one of the newspaper reports), so much still to be discovered. The only fact we know is that a double width stroller has no place in the cabin and should never have got that far.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Every time I travelled with a stroller & handed it over at the gate, I received the stroller at the other end at the gate. This was always clearly explained to me. Logical & a great move by airlines that ensure that one is not stuggling at airports with no stroller facilities. Naturally this was always outside America where it seems hospitality & manners still exisit.

[Gauges and Dials]

Originally Posted by p.j.m

No one said that happened, except for the unruly passenger who took it upon himself to berate and threaten the atendant. The only "evidence" was from a First Class passenger who saw what happened, and said it was the result of a struggle for the stroller.

Actually, serveral passengers other than the passenger you term "unruly" said it happpened:

“He jerked it away from her and almost hit the baby in the head,” Olivia Morgan, the passenger who saw the episode unfold, said in a telephone interview.

Ms. Morgan, an executive with an education-related nonprofit, said that after she complained about the woman’s treatment, the attendant shouted at her.

“He yells at me with his finger in my face, ‘You stay out of it!’” she said. “Full rage.

Surain Adyanthaya, who posted the video of the altercation on Facebook, wrote that the flight attendant had “violently” taken the stroller, “hitting her and just missing the baby.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/b...ller.html?_r=0

I'm going to assume that American Airlines has access to more and better information than any of us do (even those of us who fly for AA). They were pretty quick to suspend the FA.

[kapton]

The flight attendant is supposed to be trained to deal with stressful and awkward situations. The fact that the incident escalated to the point where a fellow passenger intervened, is a direct consequence of the flight attendant's handling of the situation. Regardless of whether the gate agent should have arranged for the stroller to be put in the hold, or that the lady may have raised her voice, the flight attendant should not have made a minor problem into a full-blown incident. The lady was travelling with 2 very young children, maybe catching a connecting flight, and was was under enough stress to look after her children as best as possible whilst travelling. She did not need some fat moron with the people skills of Hannibal Lectar to make her day even more stressful.

[Cazalet33]

When travelling in America I often wonder whether the locals have any idea how much better the cabin service is in airlines of the free world than it is in the airlines of that benighted country.

Most Americans simply don't travel beyond the confines of their own Empire.

[SalNichols]

Trust me, we know. It's why we continually bitch about crap service and fly SWA, VA, and Alaskan where they actually make an effort to treat you like a human.
I quit flying to Palmdale from SJC, because it was just easier and a crapload more pleasant to drive. I could get a damn speeding ticket from the CHP and still have a better day than the best day flying. That is how bad U.S. airlines customer service has become.

[SalNichols]

The fact that some of you twits reach for law enforcement because you lack the goddamn interpersonal skills and flexibility to solve a frigging problem on your own makes me sick. How difficult would it have been to explain to her that her stroller would be waiting for her at the door in Houston? Seriously, give that one some thought and get back to the sane people reading this.

[parabellum]

Seriously, give that one some thought and get back to the sane people reading this.

99% certain that it was explained to her, as it is explained to thousands of other passengers world wide, every day, but she did not want to accept it. We gave that thought before we finished reading post #1.

[wiggy]

TBF to crews everywhere some problems can be intractable.

It would be interesting see the whole story here, i.e. Before the video started, and most especially how having got the stroller onboard this lady intended to "secure" the stroller during flight. Most cabin crew I know of are actuallly pretty pragmatic but they are not magicians and there are legal requirements about stowage. If the lady didn't have an acceptable plan for the stroller, and there was no room in either overhead lockers or wardrobes for the thing (and I think we all know some strollers are big) then unless the passenger is willing to relinquish the stroller for hold loading the crew are being put in an impossible position. If the passenger then has a hissy fit about giving up the item you've got a problem.

[parabellum]

The flight attendant said, at one point, "You stay out of this, you don't know the full story", to the big fella that interjected, unfortunately I doubt we will ever know the full story either, as it is entirely in the hands of AA management and staff and I doubt they will want to discuss it with Joe Public any further.

[DroneDog]

As self loading luggage, I am 100% behind the crew on this one.

The female in question would have been politely asked I am sure a number of times to place the stroller in the hold, I find it impossible to believe that she was not challenged at some point during boarding or check in.

She adopted the "look at me with two kids - I am special and deserve special treatment" attitude, cue tears "manipluation mode on"

The flight was busy, the crew was working flat out and not wanting to delay the light. The female in question appears on with an item that there is no room for, in terms of the suggested hitting the child with a stroller, if it did happen, I am sure it was an accident, a casual brush rather than a deliberate assault.
The dick head who got up to square off against the cabin crew should be facing charges.

It's a pet hate When in economy I ensure my luggage is smaller than the required size, yet I have been on fully booked flights and watched as some passengers get off with a number of bags each one well over the size limit and hog the overhead bin space. Whilst I had to then sit in some discomfort bag under seat in front - no leg room.

I paid for my seat too, equality, we all have to share.

I have flown American a number of times and actually found the crew to be first rate, On one flight It was a very tired 747 on an Atlantic crossing and ended up with one of the worst seats in economy, (not reclining). I politely accepted it, but the crew ensured those of us with bulk head seats had more drinks and food and were looked after.

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by parabellum

The stroller should have gone in the hold, tagged and removed at the point of entry to the aircraft, the mother should have requested 'Meet and Assist' from the airline, (usually a free service), so that a designated member of staff could have been assigned to meet her.

I thought exactly the same. As the passenger turned up at the gate the ground staff should surely have politely informed the passenger that her pushchair would be placed in the aircraft hold and repatriated on arrival at destination.

If she objected she should have been confronted with two alternatives. Either comply with the request, or be denied boarding. She should never have got through the door with the pushchair.

What exactly is going on in the US?

[wiggy]

What exactly is going on in the US?

My theory (no doubt controversial) is that some of this is possibly down to the idea of "Empowerment", possession of cameraphones, and the unedited and unbridled power of youtube,twitter, etc. It has played right into the hands of that almost vanishingly small percentage of customers who belong to the awkward brigade.

[Nomennudum]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

I thought exactly the same. As the passenger turned up at the gate the ground staff should surely have politely informed the passenger that her pushchair would be placed in the aircraft hold and repatriated on arrival at destination.

If she objected she should have been confronted with two alternatives. Either comply with the request, or be denied boarding. She should never have got through the door with the pushchair.

I agree. Once she did get on the aircraft there was going to be a confrontation and a delay. But trying to snatch the stroller from her could never have been the right thing to do. There isn't a good solution, and it is sad that manipulative people often get their own way. But, however long the solution takes, fighting a woman with two small children for the stroller was never going to end well.

[Crownstay01]

There's a number of snap judgements being offered here by people who don't have all the facts, so in that spirit I'll add one of my own.

“Try it, hit me.” the attendant says. “Come on, bring it on.”

In my opinion, they're not the words of someone trying to de-escalate a tense situation.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

I thought exactly the same. As the passenger turned up at the gate the ground staff should surely have politely informed the passenger that her pushchair would be placed in the aircraft hold and repatriated on arrival at destination.

If the passenger turns up at the aircraft unaware that she would be relieved of the buggy at that point (and have it handed back to her upon disembarcation) then that represents a systemic failure.

And whether she knew that or not, it then becomes a damage limitation exercise which it appears AA couldn't handle.

[WHBM]

Ms. Morgan, an executive with an education-related nonprofit, said that after she complained about the woman’s treatment, the attendant shouted at her.

“He yells at me with his finger in my face, ‘You stay out of it!’” she said. “Full rage.

Discussion point as to whether fellow passengers should come to the aid of those less able to defend themselves against aggressive staff.

London Stansted. Gate agent shouts over the heads "Boarding. Have passport open at photo page, yeah". Elderly, aged 70-plus, arthritic hands old lady ahead of me shuffles up and hesitantly offers her documents. Young, fit (though pimply), 20-something agent snarls loudly "I said passport OPEN at the PHOTO PAGE". Old lady visibly upset.

Now I am right behind. Should I give him a piece of my mind about manners ? Or should we all just cower and let this go ?

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by wiggy

My theory (no doubt controversial) is that some of this is possibly down to the idea of "Empowerment", possession of cameraphones, and the unedited and unbridled power of youtube,twitter, etc. It has played right into the hands of that almost vanishingly small percentage of customers who belong to the awkward brigade.

No, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Simon Calder said this morning that within the airline T&Cs it states that videoing and photography is the cabin is forbidden. If this sort of thing carries on will we see the day when, for "security and / or privacy reasons" all devices with cameras will be taken away from passengers on boarding, kept secure and returned on disembarkation?

Now that would be controversial!!

[txl]

Another perspective

This is a comment someone named "Eric" posted on a Yahoo News story on the incident. I don't know if it's true, but it looks reasonable enough and adds some perspective. I've added paragraphs for better readability.

I was on this flight directly across the isle from the woman filming the video. This is what I observed:

1.) woman gets on the plane pushing a car seat type stroller with one child in it, carrying a second child on her hip and dragging behind a very large folded stroller that was too big for the overhead bin or to go under a seat.

2.) the flight attendant shown in the video approached from the back of the plane and informed her in a calm manner that there was nowhere to store the stroller. The woman immediately escalated the situation and within about 30 seconds was screaming at him at the top of her lungs.

3.) the flight attendant evidently decided she was not fit to be on the flight (in my opinion the correct decision) and started to move her and her children towards the front of the plane.

4.) when they got to the from of the plane the woman decided she was not going any further. The flight attendant picked up the stroller and lifted it over his head to try and move past the woman. As he was doing this she pushed him and the stroller fell a bit and struck her in the face. She began crying loudly and dramatically. Shortly after this is where the video begins.

5.) The first class passenger then inserts himself into the drama with his faux chivalry but clearly has no idea what has transpired in the back of the plane since he was in a window seat in the first class section of the plane and could not have viewed the incident from his seat.

6.) after another 10 minutes or so the woman exits the plane only to be returned about 5 minutes later and taken to her seat. We wait another 30-40 minutes while various flight and ground crew come and go speaking to the woman. After about 40 minutes she deplanes again this time telling all of the passengers, who are now becoming vocal in support of the flight crew, that all she wanted was an apology from the flight attendant. Evidently that's what the 40 minute delay was all about. Then we waited another 10 minutes for the ground crew to find and remove her luggage from the belly of the plane.

7.) the flight finally leaves and arrives in Dallas an hour or so late. American representatives are waiting at the gate to speak with the first class passenger who made the threats. What I heard was a very apologetic tone coming from two American employees, as if the airline had done something to upset the first class passenger.

8.) when I entered the bag claim area the first class passenger was right in front of me and as soon as he made it through the revolving door there was a camera crew waiting for him on the other side to interview him.

That's about as factual of an account as I can provide and I realize there may be other parts of this story that I do not know about or did not witness. From what I saw:

a.) if anyone from American should have been punished it should be the ground crew who somehow letting this woman on board with a full size stroller. The flight attendant was put in a horrible situation by a passenger that most passengers in my immediate area thought seemed unstable. She escalated the situation, not him.

b.) in my opinion, the first class passenger should have been removed. Had the flight been in progress he might very well have been arrested upon landing for threatening a crew member. Additionally, he could not have seen any of the back of the plane antics of the woman based on where he was seated.

c.) I agree the flight attendant may have reacted too harshly in responding to the threatening customer in first class, but his actions with the woman in question were professional throughout the ordeal. I am disappointed American has chosen to punish him.

Source: American Airlines flight attendant put on leave after clash with passengers captured on video (In the comments section)