American Airlines pax hit with stroller
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You have a stressed mother and child. Don't you think it's possible to de-escalate the situation, or is it absolutely necessary to exert your authority all of the time? As an American, I'm at a loss to explain our national lack of empathy for anyone but ourselves. It's damn embarrassing.
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You have a stressed mother and child. Don't you think it's possible to de-escalate the situation, or is it absolutely necessary to exert your authority all of the time? As an American, I'm at a loss to explain our national lack of empathy for anyone but ourselves. It's damn embarrassing.
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"Non-compliant passengers"
I know, I know the solution! It's these damn non-compliant passengers. Why don't we just not have passengers? Then they wouldn't have any opportunity to fight with or annoy the gate agents or CC. Problem solved!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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SalNicholas - The question of the stroller going into the hold should have been politely explained to the mother both at check-in and again at the gate when boarding pass was checked. When the mother raised her concerns about being without the stroller and on her own the AA staff should have arranged 'Meet and Assist' for her; Why do you assume a lack of empathy or exertion of authority 'all the time'? I explained a totally bog standard, time worn procedure that is followed internationally, hundreds of times, every day. AA failed, it would seem, but we don't know what exchanges took place between the mother and AA staff from the time of check in until the mother was engaged in a tug-of-war with ground staff. From a safety point of view strollers cannot normally be secured in the pax cabin, they rarely fit in an overhead locker and probably exceed the weight limitation if they do, there are no other areas where they can be properly secured that I am aware of and if loose in the cabin could cause serious injury in turbulence. Cabin storage is normally limited to overhead bins and wardrobes for passenger clothing.
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I don't know about stressed, but mother with TWINS. In later video she is holding both, one in each arm. My wife had to do that when I received sudden orders to travel one way and she headed back home - with 5 under 13 including twin 3 year olds and a change in ORD. I must say that the old UA was more than helpful and stowed the two small strollers on board to help her with the ORD connection.
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SalNicholas - The question of the stroller going into the hold should have been politely explained to the mother both at check-in and again at the gate when boarding pass was checked, when the mother raised her concerns about being without the stroller and on her own the AA staff should have arranged 'Meet and Assist' for her; Why do you assume a lack of empathy or exertion of authority 'all the time'? I explained a totally bog standard, time worn procedure that is followed internationally, hundreds of times, every day. AA failed, it would seem, but we don't know what exchanges took place between the mother and AA staff from the time of check in until the mother was engaged in a tug-of-war with ground staff.
Ever since 9/11 U.S. flight attendants have seen themselves as some kind of law enforcement authority. One lacking any law enforcement training. They lean upon the perceived absolute authority of "passengers must obey any command from the flight crew" to behave like primping psychopathic twits. If you want to know why Americans hate flying...look to your cabin crews. By and large, they're unemployable as cops because most of them wouldn't pass the psych eval.
Last edited by SalNichols; 23rd Apr 2017 at 01:22. Reason: forgot something
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Do what she wants, when she is told no
become a "stressed woman with a child" and ignore the rules
Cries, screams, upsets the entire plane
incites a male passenger to take her side even though she's in the wrong (because its always the mans fault when a woman cries),
gets the gate attendant disciplined for doing his job and defending himself from an ignorant male passenger
gets an upgrade to first class for her trouble
and the aggressive male passenger gets away scott free.
If Americans think that's ok, then they need to wake up and take a long hard look at themselves.
I agree totally with Parabellum on this. This situation should never have got to the aircraft, it should have been sorted at the gate, like all such incidents should be. What were the gate Staff doing at the time of boarding?
As an initial opening bid when dealing with pax, try treating them with tact, consideration & respect, when this has no positive responce, then possibly call for the cavalry. I would agree though, that in some circumstances, the odd pax does not deserve such consideration.
As an initial opening bid when dealing with pax, try treating them with tact, consideration & respect, when this has no positive responce, then possibly call for the cavalry. I would agree though, that in some circumstances, the odd pax does not deserve such consideration.
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Except that is exactly what happened, intentional or not.
The last time I checked, this was the forum where airline clients got to vent their spleens. If you don't like it, tough. If you care to read and understand the problem that you people have created, you just might learn how to fix it.
The last time I checked, this was the forum where airline clients got to vent their spleens. If you don't like it, tough. If you care to read and understand the problem that you people have created, you just might learn how to fix it.
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Well the flight attendants' union seem to think that it was an FA:
Video shows intense moments between passengers, American Airlines crew | WFAA.com
Bob Ross, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA), released a statement that the tension of the situation came from many factors that were "beyond the control of passengers and Flight Attendants."
Here is the statement:
The goal of our 26,000 members is to make every flight safe and secure for our passengers and crew. All passengers deserve to be treated with respect. We also must assure that our Flight Attendants are treated respectfully and safely on board.
Our dedicated Flight Attendants at American strive every day to make the passenger experience the best in the industry. However this has become more challenging due to tight schedules, overcrowded planes, shrinking seats, and limited overhead bin space. All of these factors are related to corporate decisions beyond the control of passengers and Flight Attendants
There are really two stories here related to this incident aboard a San Francisco to Dallas flight. One, we don’t know all of the facts related to a passenger who became distraught while boarding a plane and therefore neither the company nor the public should rush to judgment.
Second, it appears another passenger may have threatened a Flight Attendant with violence, which is a violation of federal law and no small matter. Air rage has become a serious issue on our flights.
We must obtain the full facts surrounding these incidents. Our passengers and the Flight Attendants deserve nothing less.
Here is the statement:
The goal of our 26,000 members is to make every flight safe and secure for our passengers and crew. All passengers deserve to be treated with respect. We also must assure that our Flight Attendants are treated respectfully and safely on board.
Our dedicated Flight Attendants at American strive every day to make the passenger experience the best in the industry. However this has become more challenging due to tight schedules, overcrowded planes, shrinking seats, and limited overhead bin space. All of these factors are related to corporate decisions beyond the control of passengers and Flight Attendants
There are really two stories here related to this incident aboard a San Francisco to Dallas flight. One, we don’t know all of the facts related to a passenger who became distraught while boarding a plane and therefore neither the company nor the public should rush to judgment.
Second, it appears another passenger may have threatened a Flight Attendant with violence, which is a violation of federal law and no small matter. Air rage has become a serious issue on our flights.
We must obtain the full facts surrounding these incidents. Our passengers and the Flight Attendants deserve nothing less.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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I only saw one child but I see reference to twins. The passenger had a backpack that looked full, two infants and a stroller, where was it all going to go? how many seats did she have booked?
SalNicholas -
Now you have lost me.
SalNicholas -
to read and understand the problem that you people have created
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According to American Airlines, the woman tried to bring a double-wide stroller down the aisle of a single-aisle A321. The airlines said she did speak English, and she had flown from Argentina to the U.S. but forgot she needed to check in the stroller and tried to bring it on the plane with her.
American wasted no time issuing a very straight forward statement, which came out 20 minutes after landing:
“We have seen the video and have already started an investigation to obtain the facts. What we see on this video does not reflect our values or how we care for our customers. We are deeply sorry for the pain we have caused this passenger and her family and to any other customers affected by the incident. We are making sure all of her family's needs are being met while she is in our care. After electing to take another flight, we are taking special care of her and her family and upgrading them to first class for the remainder of their international trip.
The actions of our team member captured here do not appear to reflect patience or empathy, two values necessary for customer care. In short, we are disappointed by these actions. The American team member has been removed from duty while we immediately investigate this incident.”
“We have seen the video and have already started an investigation to obtain the facts. What we see on this video does not reflect our values or how we care for our customers. We are deeply sorry for the pain we have caused this passenger and her family and to any other customers affected by the incident. We are making sure all of her family's needs are being met while she is in our care. After electing to take another flight, we are taking special care of her and her family and upgrading them to first class for the remainder of their international trip.
The actions of our team member captured here do not appear to reflect patience or empathy, two values necessary for customer care. In short, we are disappointed by these actions. The American team member has been removed from duty while we immediately investigate this incident.”
I think doing away with the antecedent phrase "you need to..." would go a long way toward keeping things civil. When that happens, hackles are automatically raised, usually needlessly.
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The refusal of the lady to give up her stroller, something which is afterall a perfectly legitimate, reasonable and indeed necessary request
a non compliant passenger was the initial cause of this whole incident.
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By no means do people side with passengers all the time. There are thousands of cases per year of drunk, obnoxious, provocative, disruptive, malodorous, or otherwise unsuitable customers being removed from aircraft, and the other passengers generally cheer when they are finally escorted or dragged off.
And had my wife or daughter been assaulted and battered by an airline employee, I would certainly have hoped that someone would have been equally aggressive in her defense.
The part you seem to be missing is that ordering you out of a business class seat for which you did not pay, is an entirely reasonable request.
In what sense did "not obeying the rules" cause the employee to assault and batter a customer?
That twerp who lept from his seat after threatening the attendant should have been removed. He was agressive as well.
I can't wait for my trip to Europe next month. I'm going to sit in business class, even though I paid for the cheap seats, and if asked to move - cry. Or just simply refuse to move. Because it seems when orders from crew are not followed - just refuse.
But what caused it all? Not obeying rules?
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The woman refused to give up her stroller. That was the cause of the original (off video) incident, apparently there was a struggle with it, and it hit her. She then screamed and created a scene on the aircraft even though she was in the wrong.
A male passenger onboard decided to take the law into his own hands and threatened the attendant who had been the subject of abuse by the irrational woman who refused to give up her stroller.
Some lessons to be learned here, first and foremost, the woman should have been denied boarding, instead of an ensuing struggle to remove the stroller she wasn't entitled to take aboard, and the male passenger who threatened the attendant should also have been removed from the aircraft.
Unfortunate that the attendant had to defend himself.
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I suggest you go watch the video again.
The woman refused to give up her stroller. That was the cause of the original (off video) incident, apparently there was a struggle with it, and it hit her. She then screamed and created a scene on the aircraft even though she was in the wrong.
A male passenger onboard decided to take the law into his own hands and threatened the attendant who had been the subject of abuse by the irrational woman who refused to give up her stroller.
Some lessons to be learned here, first and foremost, the woman should have been denied boarding, instead of an ensuing struggle to remove the stroller she wasn't entitled to take aboard, and the male passenger who threatened the attendant should also have been removed from the aircraft.
Unfortunate that the attendant had to defend himself.
The woman refused to give up her stroller. That was the cause of the original (off video) incident, apparently there was a struggle with it, and it hit her. She then screamed and created a scene on the aircraft even though she was in the wrong.
A male passenger onboard decided to take the law into his own hands and threatened the attendant who had been the subject of abuse by the irrational woman who refused to give up her stroller.
Some lessons to be learned here, first and foremost, the woman should have been denied boarding, instead of an ensuing struggle to remove the stroller she wasn't entitled to take aboard, and the male passenger who threatened the attendant should also have been removed from the aircraft.
Unfortunate that the attendant had to defend himself.
Some versions of the story say that the airline told her she could bring the stroller on board.
In no case, other than perhaps the possibility that she attacked the flight attendant first, would it have been legitimate for the flight attendant to assault and batter her. The appropriate response, if in fact he was in the right (which we don't yet know), would have been to say, "You may not bring that on board, if you do, we will call for law enforcement to remove you from the aircraft." The minute he touched her, the legal and PR game was over.
I didn't think the male passenger was even a tiny bit out of line. You don't hit a mother carrying her child in her arms. Period.
Last edited by Gauges and Dials; 23rd Apr 2017 at 04:14. Reason: typo "day"->"say"