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I usually fly business class

Old 24th Jun 2016, 19:18
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I usually fly business class

...because the company pays, obviously. However, having just returned from the USA having flown economy because of customer requirements, I would like to offer the following observation.

I flew out with Virgin Atlantic and it was a good experience to the point that I wondered why do we bother paying 5 times the ticket price when economy is more than enough?

I flew back with Delta and now I know. If you want an experience reminiscent of a 1970's charter flight on a cramped aging and noisy 767, please fly Delta economy.

'Chicken or pasta', chuck, 'chicken or pasta', chuck.

' Can you tell me what the food is ?'

'Stuffed chicken or lasagne'.

'I don't like cheese, what is the chicken stuffed with?'

'Cheese'.

''Oh, nothing else ?'

''Yes, salad'

'What sort of salad?'

'Cheese'

'Oh'

'Chicken or pasta , chicken or pasta....' fading into the distance.

Knees pressed against seat in front, seat with limited recline, perhaps because entertainment screen doesn't swivel, sound on entertainment so poor it's unuseable despite a good selection ( but at least screen worked unlike that of the passenger next to me).

'Chicken or pasta, chicken or pasta...'

So if you want a Soviet style experience fly Delta economy, but if you want a good service which renders business class obsolete, choose Virgin.

I flew Delta in economy last in 1976 when they were the bees knees. What in earth has happened to them such that I have had to register a complaint with my company and a restriction that the combination of Delta+economy+767 is such that I'll refuse to fly?
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 21:16
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Strange how things change. Many years ago (and yes, many) I flew economy class with Virgin and vowed never to do so again. Service was fine but the seating was unbearably cramped in comparison to other Y class products across the ocean at the time.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 05:55
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Yep, it's probably all one big cycle. Not that I am bitter or anything.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 08:00
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The question is how much did you pay in 1976 and how much did you pay today?

My guess is that you probably paid less in face value FORTY years later in economy and that 2016 Business Class, when adjusted for inflation, was slightly more than you paid in economy in '76

as people repeat on here "we get what we pay for"
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 17:12
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Unfortunately, west bound from the UK doesn't give you a choice of many decent economy class options. Going east its a different story with all of Skytrax 5* airlines such as Singapore/Qatar/Cathay/Asiana/EVA/ANA/Garuda and Hainan available and a good selection of 4* such as Emirates and Turkish.

Note that there are only two US airlines that make the 4* list, JetBlue and Virgin America most are in the 3* category along with the likes of Air India and Egypt Air. Spirit are 2* alongside Iran Air and Turkmenistan Airlines.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 20:17
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The last time I flew Y transatlantic with DL it was chicken or pasta. I don't like pasta so asked for chicken which was ... pasta with a few lumps of chicken. Take some sandwiches when flying with American carriers.

The staff were better than some other US carriers though.

Check who is operating the flight though now that DL own 49% of VS and that its not a codeshare.

I saved 40% of the lowest quoted non-stop fare last time I flew LHR - JFK by flying KLM via AMS. Took longer but good service, I can chose my seat free free in advance, and I still got DL frequent flyer points.

Last edited by Peter47; 1st Jul 2016 at 08:17.
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 00:14
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Unfortunately my employer doesn't do things that way. The price of the Delta ticket, Dallas to San Diego in 1976 was probably astronomical.
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 01:49
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KLM are particularly good if leaving from a regional city in the UK.

Look at Aer Lingus as well from London, a connection in the Irish Republic but includes US pre clearance so effectively a domestic arrival at the other end. Their business class isn't up to BA standards but neither is the price.

Norwegian may be worth looking at if the price is right and you don't expect too much.
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 08:28
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Going via AMS saves a packet but on the way back you're faced with a change & another flight to the UK at the end of an already tiring trip ........ not a problem outbound but not so nice inbound

Of course if you have to fly to NCL or MAN from LHR it makes no difference and AMS is a far better choice both ways
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 09:30
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Ethiopian from DUB are well worth a look at, you can pick up J class fares for peanuts
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 10:08
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Spot on analysis, Mr Optimistic. Your account is exactly what I have experienced with these shambolic US legacies, and American and United are no different.

BA and VS are light years ahead on service, and I am not saying this because I am anti-US. Far from it. I would love to see Jet Blue going trans-atlantic and really shaking up the market.

If you have to fly economy again, also consider Norwegian, which has a very good (so I hear) premium product which is only slightly more expensive than the legacy economy fare. They fly to 5 or 6 points at the moment including New York, Boston and LA and are steadily expanding.
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 19:46
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not business, but...

Next year wife & I are booked to fly Auckland to Kuala Lumpur
with Air Asia. Economy of course, but we paid for an upgrade
to lie-flay bed (6 feet).Includes meals & drinks, comparable to Business Class ?
We will find out. Then we will go on to Bangkok and then
Norwegian (premium) on to Alicante which is apparently bookable
as a single ticket. Usually we travel Business, but this combination
was especially cheap. We could also get cheap business class from Bangkok
to Europe with Air India and Air Sri Lanka, but onward connections to
Spain were not so good. We are never in a hurry & will stop over en-route.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 21:08
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Sorry but I have to disagree. Over the last 2 years according to my passport I have flown 12 round trips across the pond. In economy on Delta, Virgin and BA.
BA have lost their way and need some new aircraft. Virgin ok nothing special and the same with Delta. Worst seat was the brand new Virgin 787 seat, no padding and my arse was painful after only 2 hours! All had the same leg room
but Delta had the advantage with the 2-3-2 layout. All 3 have rubbish food with little choice, all down to cost saving I'm afraid and Virgin and Delta get their food from the same place.
As for sitting in the posh bit, best was the trip I have just got back from with Swiss. Can't fault them. Worst was Virgin Upper Class. Old A340, rubbish inflight entertainment, rude and unhelpful crew.
Delta I have had good and bad and BA just old and tired.
Just my views but we are all different.
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 14:37
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- I've flown long range on United once (EWR-DXB) never again. Crap legroom and poor meal choices (only 2 meals and limited 2 two choices) and terrible service all around. I tell people it was like being in a Greyhound, only the seat cushion was a city bus seat!

-Flew Etihad to Abu Dhabi in economy from YYZ: Godiva chocolate, 3 meal options (another 2 if you wanted a healthy option or veggie), 2 snacks (meat or veggie) and 3 drink rounds over the 12-13 hr flight. The cabin crew were attentive and always looking to improve your experience (i.e guy next to me IFE wasnt working the flight attendant asked if he'd like another seat, he didn't have to ask!)

-Flew domestic JFK-SFO on Delta.....2 drinks and a "salty or sweet packet sir?" FOR A 6 HOUR FLIGHT, flight on Jetblue from BUF-JFK was great, lots of legroom and the MINT upgrade wasn't too expensive if you wanted it.

-Flew domestic DXB-DOH then KHI (2.5hr) got a full breakfast, snack if wanted and amazing seats with great legroom in economy.

The way i see it, while the NA carriers are complaining about ME airline profits, airlines in the ME, Asia (select few) and EU (some airlines) are sacrificing legroom, meal costs, and that added feature from first class all the way to the guy that's gotta sit in economy next to the lavatory, to earn respect and reputation!

While the NA carriers retrofit their 767's and 1990's 777-200's, the ME carriers have enough redundant customers to push 787's and a350's right through their fleets. It's a sad state when all the US carriers care about the making money on efficiency and fees, what ever happened to customer service and experience so that the customer will return (the principle of marketing)??? Only Jetblue seems ahead in the domestic market, and a few Delta planes internationally. It's sad, and what's worse is that amongst the gazzilion US airlines, they all price like a monopoly. Sad really....anytime i get an option to pay a few bucks more for a Virgin or an EK, its a clear choice now.

The way i see it, US carriers First Class is like sub-par business on EVA, EK or SQ - the economy? Like a recession in comparison.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 10:05
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Pack decent homemade sandwiches, fruit and cheese. Or a bento box
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 12:02
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All
Have to agree with all comments regards to the poor service you get on American carriers, but also have to share with you a little observation I witnessed on a VA flight back in May. In Business class when breakfast was brought out a women opposite me queried the flavour of the Yogurt I think, to which the estuary English stewardess stuck her "pinky" in it and tasted it declareing it to be Strawberry ! I believe she did change the Yogurt but I am not sure it was quite the impression VA would like to portray. I will spare date of flight details but it was going East, and was my first VA flight for some years and have to say compared with Gulf carriers I was not that impressed.


Regards
Mr Mac
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:07
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Well the response I got at work was basically it was my own fault as there were earlier VA and KLM flights under the code share. Thanks team, how was I supposed to know. Naively I assumed that things improve with time, better aircraft, better service, better safety. Well, wiser now.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:30
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Have never travelled business class [poor value for money] but recently went LHR to KL with Malaysia on an A.380. My wife and I had 4 seats each to sleep on, there and back, free drinks, good food and stunningly beautiful and efficient F/As. We were taken up to look at business class, and we reckoned, because the flight wasn't full, that we had more room in economy!!. A very good experience!.
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Old 30th Jun 2016, 07:25
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KLM flights
KLM are nothing to sing and dance about, I have flown with them inter Europe many a time, there was a period when they banned serving alcohol in economy whilst there would be a party going on the other side of the curtain in business, and when, because there were so many complaints, they reintroduced alcohol they had reduced beer sizes from 330ml to 250ml, so small it's not even worth serving and Heineken tastes like gnats pee anyway.

The one time I did fly long haul with KLM MNL/AMS/CWL it was OK ... Just OK.

In comparison I also flew many a time inter Europe with Swiss and long haul BHX/ZRH/HKG/BHX/ZRH, despite how much I hate becoming bored whilst flying I actually looked forward to my flights with Swiss, they were always such a pleasant experience.

And as for Cathay, the time I flew long haul LHR/HKG/CEB with them, on the cheapest of economy tickets, I worked in the airlines for some 30 years, but Cathay's catering was so good I kept the menu card:

LHR/HKG

Starter:

Herb marinated potato and bean salad.

Main Course:

Braised pork in chestnut sauce with steamed rice, broccoli and carrots.

or

Tomato and herb crusted chicken on peperonata and buttered gnocchi.

or

Spiral pasta with tomato mascarpone, black olives and cheese

Dessert:

Beachdean ice cream

Served with tea and coffee

That was served after an evening departure from LHR, before our afternoon arrival in HKG we found ourselves being served:

Breakfast

Fresh fruit salad

Fruit yoghurt

Cheese omelette with pork sausage, sauteed potatoes and mushrooms in tomato sauce.

or

Stir fried Shanghai noodles with chicken and mixed vegetables

Bread roll with jam and butter

Served with tea and coffee


Snacks:

Cup noodle and assorted snacks are available throughout the flight.

Than was LHR/HKG, then I had a 1 hour connection rushing around, not even time to finish a cup of coffee, before I was on my way HKG/CEB just in time to be served another 3 course dinner.

Fantastic
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Old 30th Jun 2016, 09:11
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Have never travelled business class [poor value for money]
I would have to agree with that, I could possibly justify twice the economy fare but not the 3-5 times multiple. Work out the difference in $ per hour and it is horrendous. Choose a good airline with suitable departure times, pay extra for an exit row seat and bring along your own comforts such as a noise cancelling headset, iPad, slippers, eye mask and neck pillow. Supplement the menu with a few treats of your own such as cheese and chocolate.

On a really long journey such as London Sydney, break the trip with a few hours in the airside transit hotel at your en route stop. A decent sleep, session in the gym and pool, and a decent restaurant meal before getting back onboard makes a nightmare journey quite bearable.

A business class ticket typically gives 1.25 times the frequent flyer miles of an economy one for 4 times the fare so status won't come that much quicker in the airlines program.
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