I usually fly business class
Paxing All Over The World
Like many, I have found Premium Economy a good balance for long haul. I like the VS version and, this year, used the new PE on Singapore for LHR~SIN~SYD and thought it was good.
ps The BA product (World Traveller Plus) is not worth it.
ps The BA product (World Traveller Plus) is not worth it.
Last edited by PAXboy; 1st Jul 2016 at 01:43.
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What is the benefit of PE on Singapore Airlines? Yesterday I flew Johannesburg to Singapore on the A350, sitting immediately behind PE, at no time did I observe special treatment or isolation of the so called select cabin. What ever it cost extra was a con by SQ.
Paxing All Over The World
I agree that the separation of cabins is not much but then, I've been in biz (other carrier) with screaming kids in the same row, or two rows behind (in Y) and they were loud enough to have been next to me!
- At check-in there are separate queues (or you use Biz)
- The seat is is wider (in some of their aircraft) check beforehand
- The seat pitch is longer
- The seat reclines further (check well know seating websites)
- The seat has extra leg support in recline (see their website)
- Food: on an increasing number of flight (especially from SIN) [not yet from JNB] you get 'Book The Cook'. Check on their website as you can choose a meal from an extra large menu, about 6 or 8 choices, or just opt for the choice on the day.
- Luggage is increased (check their website)
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PAXboy
I agree with you on PE to a degree. Although I have found that when going on holiday and looking at PE with some carriers you can find a Business Class product with another carrier for not much difference. In one case looking at BA PE against EK Business to SIN the difference was £150 which when you take into account the perks of EK Business with Chauffer pick up easily covers that. For Business I am lucky in that over 4hrs flying, which most of my own travels are, we get Business Class as standard. Also in my own company we have had made significant and beneficial contacts when flying in Business, especially in that much maligned bar at the back of the A380 !
Regards
Mr Mac
I agree with you on PE to a degree. Although I have found that when going on holiday and looking at PE with some carriers you can find a Business Class product with another carrier for not much difference. In one case looking at BA PE against EK Business to SIN the difference was £150 which when you take into account the perks of EK Business with Chauffer pick up easily covers that. For Business I am lucky in that over 4hrs flying, which most of my own travels are, we get Business Class as standard. Also in my own company we have had made significant and beneficial contacts when flying in Business, especially in that much maligned bar at the back of the A380 !
Regards
Mr Mac
Paxing All Over The World
Yes indeed, and on my next trip to South Africa I am doing just that - and accepting the dog leg journey rather than a direct.
Companies do have the advantage of being able to negotiate deals but my days of biz travel are over and every journey is paid for! So, when planning long haul, I consider who I'm travelling with and what they can afford, elapsed time, facilities, the carrier, the aircraft type, the seat - the lot.
I recall a discussion I had many years ago when in VS Upper to JFK when I worked for an American company. My neighbour said, "The company allows biz class on certain journeys but if the employee opts for Y - then they and the company split the difference 50/50 so they both benefit." That was before PE started but it sounded like a great idea.
Companies do have the advantage of being able to negotiate deals but my days of biz travel are over and every journey is paid for! So, when planning long haul, I consider who I'm travelling with and what they can afford, elapsed time, facilities, the carrier, the aircraft type, the seat - the lot.
I recall a discussion I had many years ago when in VS Upper to JFK when I worked for an American company. My neighbour said, "The company allows biz class on certain journeys but if the employee opts for Y - then they and the company split the difference 50/50 so they both benefit." That was before PE started but it sounded like a great idea.
Last edited by PAXboy; 4th Jul 2016 at 21:02.
Mate of mine be in the US gets business class on international flights and economy on domestic ones. He can enjoy premium service on an hour long flight to Canada but gets relegated to the cheap seats for a five hour coast to coast.
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My experience of biz class has me on a few options:
Virgin Upper: Great if you are alone and do not plan on sleeping. With a partner on the 747 you are so far apart with no easy way of talking. Then having to get up and convert seat into a bed is a pain. Actually I preferred PE on the return.
You think Delta is bad, try AA. They put the bad service of DL to shame.
For me, it has to be United, but with the old CO product. So my DUB-EWR is always a pleasure.
Virgin Upper: Great if you are alone and do not plan on sleeping. With a partner on the 747 you are so far apart with no easy way of talking. Then having to get up and convert seat into a bed is a pain. Actually I preferred PE on the return.
You think Delta is bad, try AA. They put the bad service of DL to shame.
For me, it has to be United, but with the old CO product. So my DUB-EWR is always a pleasure.
Airbourne - you hit the nail on the head there with your comments about VS. I think the industry is missing a huge trick here with their fancy flat beds and strangely configured seating.
My view is that the gap between economy and business should be filled by a business-lite rather than PE product. The first carrier that provides comfortable (but not ridiculously spacious) seating and a full business class product for a reasonable fare will do very well.
My view is that the gap between economy and business should be filled by a business-lite rather than PE product. The first carrier that provides comfortable (but not ridiculously spacious) seating and a full business class product for a reasonable fare will do very well.
I think that the reason that it is called Premium Economy is so that travellers can adhere to corporate policies limiting travel to economy. Whether the service level is adequate for the premium paid is a good question.
I think that the reason that it is called Premium Economy is so that travellers can adhere to corporate policies limiting travel to economy.
First off, never judge based on a single flight - everyone can have an off day. I scored a first class upgrade on a recent flight to Las Vegas - going was terrific, coming back horrid - same operator 
I've flown international business on several operators - across both the Pacific and the Atlantic - and I can't say anyone stood out as a whole lot better or worse than the others (although the Asian operators always have younger, prettier flight attendants). Nearly everyone has the lie-flat seats now days with good video entertainment, and except for BA, one button push would do the lie-flat trick. I'm rather fond of the Delta layout that every business class seat has direct aisle access, although their seats tend to be a touch narrow for me through the shoulders when in the sleeping position. I also noticed Delta has a better selection of movies than the others (especially Asian). Food/drink have been generally pretty good - although here a slight benefit to the North American operators simply because their offerings tend to be more along the line of the type of food I prefer. I flew a Korean A380 from LA to Seoul recently - best Vodka Collins I've ever had at the bar in the back of business class
I've not flown international in economy in quite some time, but somewhere in the 5-6 hour range (domestic or international), I'm going to at least spring for premium economy. I'm getting too old to endure cattle class that long just to save a few bucks. I don't think any of the US operators offer complementary meals in domestic economy any more - so plan accordingly. I usually either eat at the airport or buy something to take on-board, although some of the stuff they sell on-board is decent.
I've flown international business on several operators - across both the Pacific and the Atlantic - and I can't say anyone stood out as a whole lot better or worse than the others (although the Asian operators always have younger, prettier flight attendants). Nearly everyone has the lie-flat seats now days with good video entertainment, and except for BA, one button push would do the lie-flat trick. I'm rather fond of the Delta layout that every business class seat has direct aisle access, although their seats tend to be a touch narrow for me through the shoulders when in the sleeping position. I also noticed Delta has a better selection of movies than the others (especially Asian). Food/drink have been generally pretty good - although here a slight benefit to the North American operators simply because their offerings tend to be more along the line of the type of food I prefer. I flew a Korean A380 from LA to Seoul recently - best Vodka Collins I've ever had at the bar in the back of business class
I've not flown international in economy in quite some time, but somewhere in the 5-6 hour range (domestic or international), I'm going to at least spring for premium economy. I'm getting too old to endure cattle class that long just to save a few bucks. I don't think any of the US operators offer complementary meals in domestic economy any more - so plan accordingly. I usually either eat at the airport or buy something to take on-board, although some of the stuff they sell on-board is decent.
Theres little commonality betwen J claasses in the same way that Y or PE varya lot from airline to airline.
BA biz class is very dated now with the narrow cramped seats- Virgin more spacious but awful beds that only the FAs can work and leave feet projecting into aisle,
EK very nice layout on 380 -cheap tacky decor but good IFE and decent food, on T7 pretty rubbish but then I dont like T7s at all.
Virgin PE is good -better than BA but BA isnt bad as far as the seats go especially if you get the window side pairs.
As for the US side based on recent experiences United on 76s much better than AA which didnt even have built in IFE on their 76 (however my seat mate was the AA check pilot for the flight and a very affable chatty guy who was only too happy to talk about a very interesting Mil and AA career-definately best IFE since the closed FD door days.
As to J class on business well tis easy to say that the 4-5 times multiple cannot be justified bt when you are doing 2-3 long hauls a month plus some intra Europe stuff it really is necessary for your well being and sanity and those FF miles are a justified perk for people who ahve their familly life and marriage impacted by constant absence.
Only ever came across one sensible travel policy and that was years ago, me and my team did 80% of the travelling, it was weekly event for all 6-7 of us -we flew business everyone else flew economy since they seldom did more than once a quarter or even less.
Theres lot more than just nicer food to the J class issue and one has to look at a wide range of issues , as has been pointed out some US companies who enforce these things quite rigidly are oblivious to the Canada= International= Business , NY-Honolulu, 9 hours coach
BA biz class is very dated now with the narrow cramped seats- Virgin more spacious but awful beds that only the FAs can work and leave feet projecting into aisle,
EK very nice layout on 380 -cheap tacky decor but good IFE and decent food, on T7 pretty rubbish but then I dont like T7s at all.
Virgin PE is good -better than BA but BA isnt bad as far as the seats go especially if you get the window side pairs.
As for the US side based on recent experiences United on 76s much better than AA which didnt even have built in IFE on their 76 (however my seat mate was the AA check pilot for the flight and a very affable chatty guy who was only too happy to talk about a very interesting Mil and AA career-definately best IFE since the closed FD door days.
As to J class on business well tis easy to say that the 4-5 times multiple cannot be justified bt when you are doing 2-3 long hauls a month plus some intra Europe stuff it really is necessary for your well being and sanity and those FF miles are a justified perk for people who ahve their familly life and marriage impacted by constant absence.
Only ever came across one sensible travel policy and that was years ago, me and my team did 80% of the travelling, it was weekly event for all 6-7 of us -we flew business everyone else flew economy since they seldom did more than once a quarter or even less.
Theres lot more than just nicer food to the J class issue and one has to look at a wide range of issues , as has been pointed out some US companies who enforce these things quite rigidly are oblivious to the Canada= International= Business , NY-Honolulu, 9 hours coach
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The thing that I want to know though is WHY the US carriers have allowed themselves to run down their service levels so much. Okay its the "cutting costs" argument but if other airlines are facing the same challenges, why do the US legacy carriers lag so far behind?
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Because I don't "usually fly business class" (not since leaving the airline industry many years ago, and now paying the market price!), I've recently contributed to the Aer Lingus thread over at Airlines, Airports & Routes.
Starting with my post #3277, 23:47hrs/07Aug:
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...s-6-a-164.html
Some here might - or equally might not! - find some relevance to this thread.
Starting with my post #3277, 23:47hrs/07Aug:
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...s-6-a-164.html
Some here might - or equally might not! - find some relevance to this thread.
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But most companies have shareholders to please (okay perhaps not Middle Eastern carriers, who first spring to mind) but the US carriers seem to have managed down the expectations of their customers so much that they are all providing this same low level of service and nobody is willing to break the mould.
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breaking the mold costs money - and there is plenty of evidence over the last 40 years that the vast bulk of travellers go with the cheapest possible airline
Otherwise Ryanair would still only have 7 aircraft............
Otherwise Ryanair would still only have 7 aircraft............
Exactly, people say they will pay a bit more for for a better service but on the day they'll take the cheapest option and complain about what they've got. The race is to the bottom not upwards, I can't remember the last time I saw any news about airlines increasing seat pitch and putting up fares because of demand from economy class passengers. Cram in an extra row of seats and reduce the width to have 9 across instead of 8, advertised a 9.99 fare and watch them come running.
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Oh I totally understand about breaking the mold costing money and it being a race to the bottom as customers seek out cheaper fares, but my original question was why are the US airlines (especially the legacy ones) able to offer such an inferior product compared to others. Of course they have to answer to shareholders, but so do many other airlines.
It is just strange to me that in a region of the world known for customer service and offering consumers a choice, the airlines have such a (often justified) bad reputation. But maybe that is a topic for a different thread.......
It is just strange to me that in a region of the world known for customer service and offering consumers a choice, the airlines have such a (often justified) bad reputation. But maybe that is a topic for a different thread.......
Paxing All Over The World
That is a good question XSBaggage. I wonder if these factors are part of it:
- A very great proportion of their pax are US travelling inside the US and do not experience the range of different carriers that we have in Europe.
- Their US pax who do not travel internationally often, probably feel safer to book with a US carrier.
- Their US pax who do travel internationally often, inc C + F, may have employer restrictions to stay with US carriers.
- US carriers may offer financial benefits to those C + F pax.
- US based Frequent Flyer Miles programmes.