Families of Germanwings victims sue US flight school
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Families of Germanwings victims sue US flight school
Source: Families of Germanwings crash victims sue US flight school | Fox News
The families of victims killed last year when a suicidal pilot flew an airliner into a mountainside in the French Alps filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the U.S. flight school where the pilot was trained, alleging the school failed to properly screen his medical background.
The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Phoenix against the Airline Training Center of Arizona. It's owned by Lufthansa, which is also the parent company of Germanwings, a regional Europe carrier that employed pilot Andreas Lubitz.
On March 24, 2015, Lubitz locked Germanwings Flight 9525's captain out of the cockpit and deliberately set the plane on a collision course with the mountainside. All 150 people aboard, including Lubitz, were killed.
While training in Europe with Lufthansa, Lubitz had been suspended from his academic course work for nearly 10 months while he sought treatment for depression. In 2010, after returning to Lufthansa with letters from his doctors that he was no longer depressed or taking medication, he was sent to the U.S. for flight training.
German authorities had twice turned down applications from Lubitz for a pilot medical certificate because of his history of depression before issuing him a medical certificate in July 2009 that included a restriction stating it would become invalid if he had a relapse, the suit said.
Had the Arizona school screened Lubitz, the restriction on his German medical certificate would have tipped officials that he'd been previously hospitalized for severe depression and treated with medications that would have prohibited him from flying, according to the suit, which was filed on behalf of more than 80 families.
Lubitz's behavior while at the flight school should also have caused officials to inquire further, the suit said, without providing details of that behavior.
The flight school's president, Matthias Kippenberg, and Lufthansa didn't immediately respond to requests for comment.
"Lubitz's particular history of depression and mental instability made him a suicide time bomb, triggered to go off under the ordinary stresses of life, particularly the kind of stresses a commercial pilot routinely faces," said attorney Marc S. Moller of the New York law firm Kreindler & Kreindler, which represents the families. It's well known that cases of depression frequently recur, although when they will recur is unpredictable, he said.
The families of victims killed last year when a suicidal pilot flew an airliner into a mountainside in the French Alps filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the U.S. flight school where the pilot was trained, alleging the school failed to properly screen his medical background.
The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Phoenix against the Airline Training Center of Arizona. It's owned by Lufthansa, which is also the parent company of Germanwings, a regional Europe carrier that employed pilot Andreas Lubitz.
On March 24, 2015, Lubitz locked Germanwings Flight 9525's captain out of the cockpit and deliberately set the plane on a collision course with the mountainside. All 150 people aboard, including Lubitz, were killed.
While training in Europe with Lufthansa, Lubitz had been suspended from his academic course work for nearly 10 months while he sought treatment for depression. In 2010, after returning to Lufthansa with letters from his doctors that he was no longer depressed or taking medication, he was sent to the U.S. for flight training.
German authorities had twice turned down applications from Lubitz for a pilot medical certificate because of his history of depression before issuing him a medical certificate in July 2009 that included a restriction stating it would become invalid if he had a relapse, the suit said.
Had the Arizona school screened Lubitz, the restriction on his German medical certificate would have tipped officials that he'd been previously hospitalized for severe depression and treated with medications that would have prohibited him from flying, according to the suit, which was filed on behalf of more than 80 families.
Lubitz's behavior while at the flight school should also have caused officials to inquire further, the suit said, without providing details of that behavior.
The flight school's president, Matthias Kippenberg, and Lufthansa didn't immediately respond to requests for comment.
"Lubitz's particular history of depression and mental instability made him a suicide time bomb, triggered to go off under the ordinary stresses of life, particularly the kind of stresses a commercial pilot routinely faces," said attorney Marc S. Moller of the New York law firm Kreindler & Kreindler, which represents the families. It's well known that cases of depression frequently recur, although when they will recur is unpredictable, he said.
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Absolutely , ATCA is 100% owned by Lufthansa Flight training Gmbh , but what would be interesting to know is in which Pilot licencing system they operate , especially their solo flights since the aircraft they use are N registered. If the students are issued an FAA licence to do so, then the medical needs to be re-assessed , as German law does not allow transfer of medical files/ history to a third party. (one of the left over from consequences of WW II). Maybe it is what the lawyers are after .
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Hmmm... the germans are rather restrictive with other peoples data. Recently both UK and Denmark refused to accept german EASA medicals as Germany restricted the information available to the NAAs.
If they had tried, would ATCA have been able to get the relevant information?
If they had tried, would ATCA have been able to get the relevant information?
Yes, because ATCA is an Arizona corporation the families' lawyers can bring a case in the US, where courts typically award higher damages than European courts. US lawyers cost more too ... so there'll be pressure on Lufthansa to settle (for big money) rather than pour money into lawyers' pockets.
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I do not suppose there would be a way of putting mr. Moller and the other attorneys at Kreindler & Kreindler on a no-fly black list, is there?
Not that they would suffer very much from it, as vultures are perfectly capable of flight.
Not that they would suffer very much from it, as vultures are perfectly capable of flight.
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The lawyers pockets will be filled whatever happens, except if it goes to court and LH wins case and all appeals.
I'm sure they are very nice bottom feeding, blood sucking sharks.
This was an international flight and the Montreal Convention 1999 (and the European Regulation that implements it in all EU Member states) is applicable and air carriers are strictly liable for proven damages up to 100,000 special drawing rights (SDR).
'Strictly liable means that the airline accepts liability (no need to go to court and prove their liability).
So these guys think they can get more. Assuming the lawyers will get 30% that means they need to secure more than 130,000 SDR per passenger in order for the plaintiffs to improve on what the Convention gives them. Oh, and if they get less than 130K they still will claim 30%, the difference coming out of the plaintiffs pockets.
I'm sure they are very nice bottom feeding, blood sucking sharks.
This was an international flight and the Montreal Convention 1999 (and the European Regulation that implements it in all EU Member states) is applicable and air carriers are strictly liable for proven damages up to 100,000 special drawing rights (SDR).
'Strictly liable means that the airline accepts liability (no need to go to court and prove their liability).
So these guys think they can get more. Assuming the lawyers will get 30% that means they need to secure more than 130,000 SDR per passenger in order for the plaintiffs to improve on what the Convention gives them. Oh, and if they get less than 130K they still will claim 30%, the difference coming out of the plaintiffs pockets.
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"Lubitz's particular history of depression and mental instability made him a suicide time bomb, triggered to go off under the ordinary stresses of life, particularly the kind of stresses a commercial pilot routinely faces," said attorney Marc S. Moller of the New York law firm Kreindler & Kreindler, which represents the families. It's well known that cases of depression frequently recur, although when they will recur is unpredictable, he said.
Originally Posted by BEA
08/07/2010: Letter from the FAA to the co-pilot informing him that he was not eligible to hold an airman medical certificate at this time, due to his history of reactive depression. The FAA asked him to submit a report from his prescribing physician that should include diagnosis, prognosis without medication(s), follow-up plan and copies of treatment records.
Originally Posted by BEA
28/07/2010: Issuance of a FAA third-class medical certificate without any limitation. The letter from the FAA accompanying the certificate indicates that because of the history of reactive depression, "operation of aircraft is prohibited at any time new symptoms or adverse changes occur or any time medication and/or treatment is required".
In hindsight they were wrong. Well, not about the signs of warning (section 1.13.1 in the BEA report has no less than eleven entries for the final four months), but about the expectation that these signs would stop Lubitz from flying.
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I think it was so that Lubitz only got a Third Class medical from the FAA so that he could fly solo during his training in the States. (The FAA medical form has a little beige sub-section that forms your Student Pilot License when it's validated by your AME. That is what you need to fly solo in the States, along with an appropriate sign-off in your logbook from your Flight Instructor.)
Most people in Lubitz' situation routinely would go for an FAA First Class medical, since that is usually a prerequisite for entering training for a professional license, a license that requires a First Class medical in order to exercise its privileges. In other words, there would be no point to training someone for an FAA Commercial license if he were not able to obtain that necessary First Class medical. If all you could get was a Third Class medical then you would be expected to train for a PPL, nothing more.
What the FAA signed off on there was only allowing Lubitz to fly as PIC under Part 91 (non-commercial flying) and Part 141 (flying on an approved curriculum in a flight school), both as a student pilot, subject to approval from an FAA-licensed CFI. (It would have been a very brave examiner who would pass an applicant for a PPL with Lubitz' history of depression, for fear of another version of what he did, using an aircraft to kill himself.)
Lubitz would have been barred from flying even under FAA Part 135 (commercial operation of light aircraft) with only a Third Class medical. Too, he most probably did not give full and honest answers to that question about how many visits he had made in the last year to health professionals and for what reasons. If he had, then his history of depression would probably have caused the FAA never to issue his medical.
The FAA is in the clear on this for two reasons:
The FAA has "sovereign immunity," meaning that they can not be sued for any oversights they have made.
The FAA stopped short itself of certifying Lubitz for anything more than non-commercial, student flying, as far as I know. Here's what the database at faa(dot)gov shows for him:
ANDREAS GUENTER LUBITZ
Medical Class: Third, Medical Date: 6/2010
STUDENT PILOT
PRIVATE PILOT (Foreign Based)
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
GLIDER
Limits:
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
ISSUED ON BASIS OF AND VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY GERMANY PILOT LICENSE NUMBER(S) 27788 9460.
ALL LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS ON THE GERMANY PILOT LICENSE APPLY.
Lubitz' FAA Third Class medical lapsed on 6/2012, more than 2 1/2 years before he killed himself and everyone else aboard his aircraft. At the time of his act of murder-suicide he was not FAA-certified to act as a pilot, given that he did not then hold a valid FAA medical.
The Lufthansa flight school in Arizona, on the other hand ... they trained and passed a fellow who had already dropped out for ten months because of severe depression, and then unleashed him upon his fellow aviators and his passengers as someone who was safe to fly with.
Lufthansa has had a large surplus of highly-qualified applicants, so that it's very difficult to understand why they allowed this man with such an obvious, high-risk problem as severe depression to go through training and then get into the right seat of an airliner.
I wonder if there is some back-story to this, someone with "pull" who mistakenly befriended Lubitz by getting him back into the training program after he had already had to drop out.
I really hate to see people who tell about how "It's always been [their] dream to be a pilot," and so on. Yeah, well, dream on, Pal, but being a dreamer is not a sound basis for success in a demanding, highly technical field such as professional aviation, especially not when chasing that dream leads you to ignore some obvious personal short-coming such as wanting to kill yourself!
As to suing in the States, rather than just taking that hundred thousand euro per victim and buggering off .... If I had lost someone in that crash then I would want to see a team of the biggest, meanest, lowest, most bottom-feeding, ambulance-chasing lawyers who ever put on sharkskin suits and two-tone shoes turn that flight school upside down and shake it violently until every last bit of loose change fell out of their pockets.
What would you guess, five million per victim, including the Captain on that flight, when you factor in getting to watch your Captain hammering on the cockpit door while the view out the windows shows the Alps first slowly and then quickly getting bigger and bigger? What sort of "pain and suffering" that must have been, and pretty directly caused by passing on a guy who never should have been put through that school. Lubitz himself, had he survived, would probably have walked on an insanity defense, given that he would be unlikely to ever be allowed to do that again, but who allows an insane person to become an airline FO?
Most people in Lubitz' situation routinely would go for an FAA First Class medical, since that is usually a prerequisite for entering training for a professional license, a license that requires a First Class medical in order to exercise its privileges. In other words, there would be no point to training someone for an FAA Commercial license if he were not able to obtain that necessary First Class medical. If all you could get was a Third Class medical then you would be expected to train for a PPL, nothing more.
What the FAA signed off on there was only allowing Lubitz to fly as PIC under Part 91 (non-commercial flying) and Part 141 (flying on an approved curriculum in a flight school), both as a student pilot, subject to approval from an FAA-licensed CFI. (It would have been a very brave examiner who would pass an applicant for a PPL with Lubitz' history of depression, for fear of another version of what he did, using an aircraft to kill himself.)
Lubitz would have been barred from flying even under FAA Part 135 (commercial operation of light aircraft) with only a Third Class medical. Too, he most probably did not give full and honest answers to that question about how many visits he had made in the last year to health professionals and for what reasons. If he had, then his history of depression would probably have caused the FAA never to issue his medical.
The FAA is in the clear on this for two reasons:
The FAA has "sovereign immunity," meaning that they can not be sued for any oversights they have made.
The FAA stopped short itself of certifying Lubitz for anything more than non-commercial, student flying, as far as I know. Here's what the database at faa(dot)gov shows for him:
ANDREAS GUENTER LUBITZ
Medical Class: Third, Medical Date: 6/2010
STUDENT PILOT
PRIVATE PILOT (Foreign Based)
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
GLIDER
Limits:
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
ISSUED ON BASIS OF AND VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY GERMANY PILOT LICENSE NUMBER(S) 27788 9460.
ALL LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS ON THE GERMANY PILOT LICENSE APPLY.
Lubitz' FAA Third Class medical lapsed on 6/2012, more than 2 1/2 years before he killed himself and everyone else aboard his aircraft. At the time of his act of murder-suicide he was not FAA-certified to act as a pilot, given that he did not then hold a valid FAA medical.
The Lufthansa flight school in Arizona, on the other hand ... they trained and passed a fellow who had already dropped out for ten months because of severe depression, and then unleashed him upon his fellow aviators and his passengers as someone who was safe to fly with.
Lufthansa has had a large surplus of highly-qualified applicants, so that it's very difficult to understand why they allowed this man with such an obvious, high-risk problem as severe depression to go through training and then get into the right seat of an airliner.
I wonder if there is some back-story to this, someone with "pull" who mistakenly befriended Lubitz by getting him back into the training program after he had already had to drop out.
I really hate to see people who tell about how "It's always been [their] dream to be a pilot," and so on. Yeah, well, dream on, Pal, but being a dreamer is not a sound basis for success in a demanding, highly technical field such as professional aviation, especially not when chasing that dream leads you to ignore some obvious personal short-coming such as wanting to kill yourself!
As to suing in the States, rather than just taking that hundred thousand euro per victim and buggering off .... If I had lost someone in that crash then I would want to see a team of the biggest, meanest, lowest, most bottom-feeding, ambulance-chasing lawyers who ever put on sharkskin suits and two-tone shoes turn that flight school upside down and shake it violently until every last bit of loose change fell out of their pockets.
What would you guess, five million per victim, including the Captain on that flight, when you factor in getting to watch your Captain hammering on the cockpit door while the view out the windows shows the Alps first slowly and then quickly getting bigger and bigger? What sort of "pain and suffering" that must have been, and pretty directly caused by passing on a guy who never should have been put through that school. Lubitz himself, had he survived, would probably have walked on an insanity defense, given that he would be unlikely to ever be allowed to do that again, but who allows an insane person to become an airline FO?
Last edited by chuks; 14th Apr 2016 at 13:01.
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RED BULL
In 1949, before starting my CPL course at A.S.T., Hamble, it was suggested (or was it insisted?) that I ought to have a full Medical at the Central Medical Board in London. This seemed sensible. SO I DID... And passed. ( I was younger, then, too !)
MY medical records are available in the UK, and these may help Medical Research, for the benefit of others.
In 1949, before starting my CPL course at A.S.T., Hamble, it was suggested (or was it insisted?) that I ought to have a full Medical at the Central Medical Board in London. This seemed sensible. SO I DID... And passed. ( I was younger, then, too !)
MY medical records are available in the UK, and these may help Medical Research, for the benefit of others.
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Most people in Lubitz' situation routinely would go for an FAA First Class medical, since that is usually a prerequisite for entering training for a professional license, a license that requires a First Class medical in order to exercise its privileges. In other words, there would be no point to training someone for an FAA Commercial license if he were not able to obtain that necessary First Class medical. If all you could get was a Third Class medical then you would be expected to train for a PPL, nothing more.
Even in the ATPL training system lufthansa used before EU regulations came around the students would only aquire a FAA class 3 medical, issued by the lufthansa medical center, which was enough to get their US PPL, a part of the training that was required to approve the "team flights" where two students would take a bonanza or baron out for a day of (usually cross country) flying without a flight instructor on board.
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I think it was so that Lubitz only got a Third Class medical from the FAA so that he could fly solo during his training in the States.
Oxford at the time, and now CTC operate from the same facility as ATCA - I wonder if other schools are concerned about potential liability issues in light of the possible outcome?
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Say what?
" ... two students would take a [B]onanza or [B]aron out for a day of (usually cross country) flying without a flight instructor on board."
That is not possible under FAA rules for student pilots who hold only student licenses. Have a look at this:
"A review of the NTSB cases involving students who carry passengers indicate that there are really four categories of violations:
Students who, even though they did not possess a private pilot certificate, believed they had sufficient experience and qualifications to carry passengers and were observed either picking up or dropping off passengers at other airports.
Students who violated an FAR during a cross-country flight, such as improperly entering Class B or Class D airspace, and it was determined during an FAA investigation of this violation that a passenger was on board.
Students who mistakenly believed that they could fly with another student pilot who was approved for solo in that aircraft. The FAA determined that the passenger was the other student pilot.
Students who flew with a private pilot and assumed that the private pilot was automatically PIC. In this situation, the burden of proof is on the student to show the FAA that the other pilot (private or higher) is PIC." (my emphasis)
(- Flight Training)
If Lubitz already held that FAA-issued PPL (issued on the basis of his German license) at the time that he was training in Arizona then he could have flown a Bonanza along with another student, using his FAA PPL/ASEL. That time would not have counted as "solo" however.
Lubitz would have needed to have a CFI who was sat in the right front seat if there was anyone else with him in that Baron, because he did not have a PPL/AMEL
Lubitz would only have been legal on a Baron (a multi-engine aircraft) for flying under instruction, and for solo flight with a sign-off from a CFI for that. There is no legal way to operate under FAA rules as the holder of only a student pilot license with anyone else aboard your aircraft unless you have a CFI in the right-hand seat who has access to the flight controls. He is then P1 and you are P3 (pilot under instruction). If you are on an approved solo flight, alone in the aircraft, then, and only then, are you legal as P1.
Lubitz might have been signed off for solo in the Baron, but that would have precluded having a fellow student along on that flight, because "solo" means exactly that.
In fact, even as a licensed pilot, having someone else along on a flight, even a non-pilot, means that it does not count as a solo flight. If you need X hours of "solo cross-country" then those hours must have been flown with you as the sole occupant of the aircraft, not just with you as the sole manipulator of the controls.
Do I know what I am talking about? I hope so:
FAA:
FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR (Gold Seal)
AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
GROUND INSTRUCTOR
ADVANCED
INSTRUMENT
That is not possible under FAA rules for student pilots who hold only student licenses. Have a look at this:
"A review of the NTSB cases involving students who carry passengers indicate that there are really four categories of violations:
Students who, even though they did not possess a private pilot certificate, believed they had sufficient experience and qualifications to carry passengers and were observed either picking up or dropping off passengers at other airports.
Students who violated an FAR during a cross-country flight, such as improperly entering Class B or Class D airspace, and it was determined during an FAA investigation of this violation that a passenger was on board.
Students who mistakenly believed that they could fly with another student pilot who was approved for solo in that aircraft. The FAA determined that the passenger was the other student pilot.
Students who flew with a private pilot and assumed that the private pilot was automatically PIC. In this situation, the burden of proof is on the student to show the FAA that the other pilot (private or higher) is PIC." (my emphasis)
(- Flight Training)
If Lubitz already held that FAA-issued PPL (issued on the basis of his German license) at the time that he was training in Arizona then he could have flown a Bonanza along with another student, using his FAA PPL/ASEL. That time would not have counted as "solo" however.
Lubitz would have needed to have a CFI who was sat in the right front seat if there was anyone else with him in that Baron, because he did not have a PPL/AMEL
Lubitz would only have been legal on a Baron (a multi-engine aircraft) for flying under instruction, and for solo flight with a sign-off from a CFI for that. There is no legal way to operate under FAA rules as the holder of only a student pilot license with anyone else aboard your aircraft unless you have a CFI in the right-hand seat who has access to the flight controls. He is then P1 and you are P3 (pilot under instruction). If you are on an approved solo flight, alone in the aircraft, then, and only then, are you legal as P1.
Lubitz might have been signed off for solo in the Baron, but that would have precluded having a fellow student along on that flight, because "solo" means exactly that.
In fact, even as a licensed pilot, having someone else along on a flight, even a non-pilot, means that it does not count as a solo flight. If you need X hours of "solo cross-country" then those hours must have been flown with you as the sole occupant of the aircraft, not just with you as the sole manipulator of the controls.
Do I know what I am talking about? I hope so:
FAA:
FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR (Gold Seal)
AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
GROUND INSTRUCTOR
ADVANCED
INSTRUMENT
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The families are understandably devastated for the loss of their relatives, oh but hang on, lets see if we can screw a few quid out of an innocent company and we may not feel quite as devastated. Damn this compensation generation.
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Err, how do you see the school that trained Lubitz and then unleashed him upon aviation, overlooking his mental state, as an "innocent company?"
I am with you to some extent when it comes to our American compensation culture, along with all these predatory "no win-no fee" lawyers, but in this particular case I think that a lot more than just one hundred thousand euro compensation is called for, and if the school that trained Lubitz is the way to get money out of Lufthansa, then so be it.
There's another culture that comes into question here, the German one that puts following procedures above higher interests. It dictated that everyone who knew about Lubitz' problems, something like 40 (!) different medical professionals, all found it a good idea to keep quiet about that, so that none of them contacted Lufthansa or the LBA about having this pilot on the loose who was really unhinged, perhaps a risk to himself and others. That goes back to the school, who knew, or should have known, what they had on their hands there.
The FAA comes into this to some degree, but just for respecting the opinion of the German authorities when Lubitz did not pose such a great risk to America as such. Most of the remaining responsibility, past the fact that Lubitz did the deed, lies with Lufthansa, and that is a Lufthansa school there in Arizona that is subject to American law.
If Lufthansa had wanted a more benign environment then they should have picked some other place than the USA for their school, but I suppose that nobody foresaw passing on a candidate who had been mentally ill, and in fact still was mentally ill!
Looked at in a slightly different way, say you were a driving instructor who had some "emo" teen on your hands, one of those with the black fingernail polish and the self-harm scars, when you might guess that his strongest secret wish was to get his license and then drive his car into a crowd of people, just going by his demeanor and all. Should you respect his right to privacy, say nothing, and help him get his license as a matter of routine, and then not expect to be sued for that when mayhem ensues?
I am with you to some extent when it comes to our American compensation culture, along with all these predatory "no win-no fee" lawyers, but in this particular case I think that a lot more than just one hundred thousand euro compensation is called for, and if the school that trained Lubitz is the way to get money out of Lufthansa, then so be it.
There's another culture that comes into question here, the German one that puts following procedures above higher interests. It dictated that everyone who knew about Lubitz' problems, something like 40 (!) different medical professionals, all found it a good idea to keep quiet about that, so that none of them contacted Lufthansa or the LBA about having this pilot on the loose who was really unhinged, perhaps a risk to himself and others. That goes back to the school, who knew, or should have known, what they had on their hands there.
The FAA comes into this to some degree, but just for respecting the opinion of the German authorities when Lubitz did not pose such a great risk to America as such. Most of the remaining responsibility, past the fact that Lubitz did the deed, lies with Lufthansa, and that is a Lufthansa school there in Arizona that is subject to American law.
If Lufthansa had wanted a more benign environment then they should have picked some other place than the USA for their school, but I suppose that nobody foresaw passing on a candidate who had been mentally ill, and in fact still was mentally ill!
Looked at in a slightly different way, say you were a driving instructor who had some "emo" teen on your hands, one of those with the black fingernail polish and the self-harm scars, when you might guess that his strongest secret wish was to get his license and then drive his car into a crowd of people, just going by his demeanor and all. Should you respect his right to privacy, say nothing, and help him get his license as a matter of routine, and then not expect to be sued for that when mayhem ensues?
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chuks
No better no worse than your judge jury and executioner comments. We've only got the plaintiffs side for now.
jvr
If there was you'd have to put attorneys in Germany, Holland and the United Kingdom on the list. According to Kreindler's website their working together.
The compensation culture started here but it spread to Europe a long time ago. I know for a fact some law firms in London have agents around the world working on commission trying to get folk to make claims. Whenever there's a crash the vultures gather and try and get a slice of the action. The agents get paid a commission if they sign folk up.
Another thing ambulance chaser type of lawyers here do is get free publicity by making statements to the media when there's an accident and get their name mentioned. They usually say they are already "helping" clients from the accident to try to attract more trade. Helping!! They make it sound like they are just trying to help folk but it's a mega bucks business. The more clients they get the more money they make. The lawyers get 40% off every plaintiff + all their expenses back. Easy money in airplane crashes. I know some British law firms do the same thing because I've seen it mentioned in threads on this site. For example the helo crash in London a few years ago and the Shoreham crash. I bet there are lawyers doing the same thing in the rest of Europe.
Err, how do you see the school that trained Lubitz and then unleashed him upon aviation, overlooking his mental state, as an "innocent company?"
jvr
I do not suppose there would be a way of putting mr. Moller and the other attorneys at Kreindler & Kreindler on a no-fly black list, is there?
The compensation culture started here but it spread to Europe a long time ago. I know for a fact some law firms in London have agents around the world working on commission trying to get folk to make claims. Whenever there's a crash the vultures gather and try and get a slice of the action. The agents get paid a commission if they sign folk up.
Another thing ambulance chaser type of lawyers here do is get free publicity by making statements to the media when there's an accident and get their name mentioned. They usually say they are already "helping" clients from the accident to try to attract more trade. Helping!! They make it sound like they are just trying to help folk but it's a mega bucks business. The more clients they get the more money they make. The lawyers get 40% off every plaintiff + all their expenses back. Easy money in airplane crashes. I know some British law firms do the same thing because I've seen it mentioned in threads on this site. For example the helo crash in London a few years ago and the Shoreham crash. I bet there are lawyers doing the same thing in the rest of Europe.
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Chuks,
you said :
Yes, but from your profile you say you live in Germany, then you might know about the regulatory changes passed today regarding Pilots mental health supervision , as a direct aftermath of this accident that are making headiness news this evening.
But that does not alter the medical secrecy and transfer of medical data to third parties, which is unlawful in Germany and an MD who does that will be prosecuted and will most probably end up in court.
These laws dates back from 1946-47 , mostly because MDs under the 3rd Reich were forced to hand over medical data of their patients to the police , and those proved to have disabilities (genetic or mental ) were send to the concentrations camps to be eliminated. Changing old rules like this one today is still a big issue in Germany. Maybe this case will unlock the situation, but it will take some more years I fear.
you said :
40 (!) different medical professionals, all found it a good idea to keep quiet about that, so that none of them contacted Lufthansa or the LBA
But that does not alter the medical secrecy and transfer of medical data to third parties, which is unlawful in Germany and an MD who does that will be prosecuted and will most probably end up in court.
These laws dates back from 1946-47 , mostly because MDs under the 3rd Reich were forced to hand over medical data of their patients to the police , and those proved to have disabilities (genetic or mental ) were send to the concentrations camps to be eliminated. Changing old rules like this one today is still a big issue in Germany. Maybe this case will unlock the situation, but it will take some more years I fear.
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On another forum ( The Rostov B738 crash ) fierce airline bashing and blood letting is taking place. On this one similar medicine seems to be meted out to lawyers.
So the question is, who is to sort out all these pilot exploiting, slave driving, unscrupulous airlines, who is to make sure that never, ever again an airline permit another nut case to sit in the sharp end of an aircraft.
Can you think of any one else but lawyers. Ask any victim of any tragedy and by that I don`t mean those who have perished, but those who are left behind as to what can be done for them. Most would ask for justice and that others should be spared from the suffering they will have to endure for the remainder of their lives.
In the Grand Scheme of things, just as dolphins and doves are needed, so are vultures and sharks.
So the question is, who is to sort out all these pilot exploiting, slave driving, unscrupulous airlines, who is to make sure that never, ever again an airline permit another nut case to sit in the sharp end of an aircraft.
Can you think of any one else but lawyers. Ask any victim of any tragedy and by that I don`t mean those who have perished, but those who are left behind as to what can be done for them. Most would ask for justice and that others should be spared from the suffering they will have to endure for the remainder of their lives.
In the Grand Scheme of things, just as dolphins and doves are needed, so are vultures and sharks.
