Swiss 146 engine explodes at London City
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just for the record, If I'm standing waiting for people in front of me to get out, I see no fire then I'm probably going to take my bag.
I also have occasionally broken the speed limit whilst driving.
That is equally selfish in that it puts others at risk for personal gain.
Aluminium Shuffler. and other outraged buggers. Have you ever been done for speeding? If so, then back in your box you sanctimonious gits.
I also drive a car that uses a ridiculous amount of fuel for my entertainment, thus destroying the environment causing untold misery for future generations.
I guess I'm a bad person.
I also have occasionally broken the speed limit whilst driving.
That is equally selfish in that it puts others at risk for personal gain.
Aluminium Shuffler. and other outraged buggers. Have you ever been done for speeding? If so, then back in your box you sanctimonious gits.
I also drive a car that uses a ridiculous amount of fuel for my entertainment, thus destroying the environment causing untold misery for future generations.
I guess I'm a bad person.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am amazed every time this argument comes up! I was cabin crew for two years, my wife has twenty years in with another airline, and we were both told in training that when you're on a passenger seat, be it for pleasure, for business or deadheading, in or out of uniform, put your book down and afford your colleagues the courtesy of listening to the demo. You're not going to learn anything from it (we can recite those things verbatim!) but that act may just prompt the person sitting next to you to do the same. (Trust me, we actually do fly more than you.)
If it comes to an evacuation (and we all hope it doesn't) Trossie sums it up perfectly above: Someone with a lot more knowledge of the situation than you has made that decision. Get out! Leave everything behind and get out. If you're messing about with your bag you're slowing things down. With cooperation and all exits usable we can get you all out in 90 seconds or less.
When you reach the bottom of the slide, if you have two hands free you can help others not blessed with the same degree of mobility as you. (And I don't mean with their carry ons!) We all know that in an evac the probability of injuries is high. People fall - it happens. Have two hands free and without endangering yourself be ready to help someone who may have fallen to prevent a build up behind.
I will concede one point though. While the airlines continue to charge for checked baggage they are driving more and more into the cabin as carry on.
If it comes to an evacuation (and we all hope it doesn't) Trossie sums it up perfectly above: Someone with a lot more knowledge of the situation than you has made that decision. Get out! Leave everything behind and get out. If you're messing about with your bag you're slowing things down. With cooperation and all exits usable we can get you all out in 90 seconds or less.
When you reach the bottom of the slide, if you have two hands free you can help others not blessed with the same degree of mobility as you. (And I don't mean with their carry ons!) We all know that in an evac the probability of injuries is high. People fall - it happens. Have two hands free and without endangering yourself be ready to help someone who may have fallen to prevent a build up behind.
I will concede one point though. While the airlines continue to charge for checked baggage they are driving more and more into the cabin as carry on.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tourist, that's all well and good of you not to hold anyone up whilst you rummage through the bins but whet then? Then you (maybe not you but others definitely) hold the bag in such a way that it takes up standing room that someone could have used thus preventing them from getting out for a couple more seconds as your bag makes its way through the exit.
What happens when you drop it and people start tripping over it causing everyone behind to get stuck and die from smoke inhalation?
What happens when someone else with an even bigger bag sees you taking your bag out the bin and thinks they can do the same but holds people up?
What happens when the smouldering fire that you couldn't see because you were on the wrong side of the cabin suddenly erupts and those few seconds delay you caused mean a couple of people die?
Selfish is all it is. If the crew say get out now and leave stuff behind, guess why they say it?
What happens when you drop it and people start tripping over it causing everyone behind to get stuck and die from smoke inhalation?
What happens when someone else with an even bigger bag sees you taking your bag out the bin and thinks they can do the same but holds people up?
What happens when the smouldering fire that you couldn't see because you were on the wrong side of the cabin suddenly erupts and those few seconds delay you caused mean a couple of people die?
Selfish is all it is. If the crew say get out now and leave stuff behind, guess why they say it?
If the explosive sound was just a compressor stall, and there's no visible damage to the cowling in the photo at the start of the thread, then why not evacuate from the starboard side.
If the explosive sound was just a compressor stall and there's no visible damage, WHY EVACUATE? Evacuating an intact, undamaged airplane is just asking for trouble.
If the explosive sound was just a compressor stall and there's no visible damage, WHY EVACUATE? Evacuating an intact, undamaged airplane is just asking for trouble.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fife, Scotland
Age: 78
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"hassle of taking said laptop is considerably less than that of leaving & losing"
But if you stay and die as a result, then you have lost it anyway, as well as everything you ever owned or might have owned in the future.
But if you stay and die as a result, then you have lost it anyway, as well as everything you ever owned or might have owned in the future.
I have today just completed a Fire and Smoke refresher course. In the classroom part of it, we watched the video showing what happened during the Manchester Airtours disaster. Watch that then tell me its acceptable to delay, even for a second, to getting your precious f£&@ing laptop. It's not sanctimoniousness, it's a matter of life and death. And, Tourist, you are not a bad person for driving a big car and I have been known to speed occasionally too, but you are an arrogant arse for thinking you know better than the professionals responsible for your safety.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jump Complete
"I have been known to speed occasionally too"
"but you are an arrogant arse for thinking you know better than the professionals responsible for your safety"
Oh the irony
"I have been known to speed occasionally too"
"but you are an arrogant arse for thinking you know better than the professionals responsible for your safety"
Oh the irony
One or two well publicised prosecutions should be enough to make those selfish morons start to pay proper attention and act sensibly.
And while we're at it, a couple of prosecutions of any thieving gits who subequently liberate high-value items that have been left behind by those passengers who have exercised responsibility and consideration and left their carry-ons in the locker.
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a shame that professional pilots are not as clairvoyant as Cokney Steve or Tourist, who seem to know by divine inspiration when to ignore emergency instructions. In addition to the custodial sentence, perhaps a lifetime ban on flying with any airline would also be appropriate. For those two, and others making similar arguments, it's a shame they can't be identified by the ISPs and banned now before they do kill another passenger.
When things go wrong, every split second makes the difference. I suggest the pair of you have a look for footage of the Chinese 737 that went up at Okinawa. That was only half full. Imagine twice the number of passengers, but half the exit rate because of people clogging up the aisle and exits with hld alls and backpacks.
An evacuation may or may not have been warranted in this case. I'm not going t second guess the crew - none of us should do that because we don't know what information they had at the time. But evacuations are not initiated lightly, and each should be treated as the utmost emergency. Ill-informed second guessing and selfish disobedience by greedy passengers is a massive threat to life. Perhaps, since it seems to be so deliberate rather than panic induced, as demonstrated by our respondents above, it should be treated as attempted murder?
When things go wrong, every split second makes the difference. I suggest the pair of you have a look for footage of the Chinese 737 that went up at Okinawa. That was only half full. Imagine twice the number of passengers, but half the exit rate because of people clogging up the aisle and exits with hld alls and backpacks.
An evacuation may or may not have been warranted in this case. I'm not going t second guess the crew - none of us should do that because we don't know what information they had at the time. But evacuations are not initiated lightly, and each should be treated as the utmost emergency. Ill-informed second guessing and selfish disobedience by greedy passengers is a massive threat to life. Perhaps, since it seems to be so deliberate rather than panic induced, as demonstrated by our respondents above, it should be treated as attempted murder?
The best solution IMHO is mandate an automatic locking mechanism for the overhead bins linked to the fasten seatbelt sign, with a manual override the CC can use in cases where somebody has left medication or whatever inside.
The only people qualified to decide how serious the situation is are sitting in the flight deck with a headset on. What if it was an APU fire? Pax wouldn't have a clue. Just get up and get the
off the airplane, helping your fellow pax do the same along the way.
The only people qualified to decide how serious the situation is are sitting in the flight deck with a headset on. What if it was an APU fire? Pax wouldn't have a clue. Just get up and get the
off the airplane, helping your fellow pax do the same along the way.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,892
Received 2,830 Likes
on
1,208 Posts
Think of it this way, what if your bag contains your duty free and that spills out at the bottom of the slide breaking and puncturing the slide or injuring those following you?
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Una Due Tfc, absolutely, or another example would be the same 737 burn-out where the pax would initially have been unable to see the fire start on the gear. Some did take bags in that event, but not most and they were lucky with having a low pax count.
Incidentally, for those criticising the crew for not being outside marshalling the passengers away in a safe direction, they were still inside getting the morons and their bags out - the crew have to get everyone else out before leaving, whether all of those passengers deserve the help or not. As for the lack of fire crews, they don't arrive the instant the problem arises, but if you have a method of time travel that allows emergency services to react and accident site as the event occurs, I'm sure you can make a lot of money from it.
Incidentally, for those criticising the crew for not being outside marshalling the passengers away in a safe direction, they were still inside getting the morons and their bags out - the crew have to get everyone else out before leaving, whether all of those passengers deserve the help or not. As for the lack of fire crews, they don't arrive the instant the problem arises, but if you have a method of time travel that allows emergency services to react and accident site as the event occurs, I'm sure you can make a lot of money from it.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tourist
Having reviewed a little of your posting history, I am ashamed to have to concede you may possibly be a pilot of some description..
Doesn't stop you being an arrogant ignorant and stupid tw@t though!
Having reviewed a little of your posting history, I am ashamed to have to concede you may possibly be a pilot of some description..
Doesn't stop you being an arrogant ignorant and stupid tw@t though!
Tourist; I see the point you're trying to make (about speeding) but I do think there IS a difference between drifting over the limit on an open road (which is what I'm talking about) and second guessing the crew who certainly know more about the situation than you, and may DIE because they are on the aircraft just that bit longer trying to get muppets like you off. Think about it, no matter how often you fly, you are unlikely to experience a situation like this. Lets be clear, if the crew order an emergency evacuation, it will only because it has been assessed as potentially life threatening to stay onboard a moment longer than necessary. We will call for an emergency evacuation knowing that people will get hurt but that it is the lesser of two evils. In that context, tell me again how inconvenient it will be to loose your laptop?
Last edited by Jump Complete; 28th Mar 2014 at 19:54. Reason: Typos
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Spain
Age: 82
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two points:
1 - How many people have been killed by failing to leave their cabin bags behind during an evacuation?
2 - The only way to really solve the problem is for ICAO to mandate that the only items that may be brought into the cabin are hand/shoulder bags - no cabin bags and no use of the overhead lockers, handbags to be of a specified size and kept with the passenger.
1 - How many people have been killed by failing to leave their cabin bags behind during an evacuation?
2 - The only way to really solve the problem is for ICAO to mandate that the only items that may be brought into the cabin are hand/shoulder bags - no cabin bags and no use of the overhead lockers, handbags to be of a specified size and kept with the passenger.
Last edited by Sunnyjohn; 28th Mar 2014 at 18:56. Reason: typo
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Paris
Age: 74
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The stuffed carryon problem has got out of hand
People stuff their carryons because they cannot get insurance replacement
They cannot get insurance replacement because the loss ratio is sky-high
The loss ratio is sky high because the industry has given "security" and baggage handlers a license to steal. Not to speak of all the pickpockets who congregate around the X-ray devices where they can get at the valuables most easily.
Fix the above, and I'll be glad to get aboard a plane in a paper kimono, with just an ipad and my passport and credit cards. The camera set, computer etc can go in the hold. Most pro photographers I know transport at least $100K of equipment. With a 1% loss rate, that means you would "lose" it once every year if you take two flights a week.
Rather than threaten the paying customers, why not threaten the staff whose outrageous behavior is causing the runaway handbag issue - or would you pilots accept finding that half the instruments have been stolen out of your cockpit, and the fuel indicators have been messed with so your tanks are half empty?
People stuff their carryons because they cannot get insurance replacement
They cannot get insurance replacement because the loss ratio is sky-high
The loss ratio is sky high because the industry has given "security" and baggage handlers a license to steal. Not to speak of all the pickpockets who congregate around the X-ray devices where they can get at the valuables most easily.
Fix the above, and I'll be glad to get aboard a plane in a paper kimono, with just an ipad and my passport and credit cards. The camera set, computer etc can go in the hold. Most pro photographers I know transport at least $100K of equipment. With a 1% loss rate, that means you would "lose" it once every year if you take two flights a week.
Rather than threaten the paying customers, why not threaten the staff whose outrageous behavior is causing the runaway handbag issue - or would you pilots accept finding that half the instruments have been stolen out of your cockpit, and the fuel indicators have been messed with so your tanks are half empty?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do tend to agree that the airlines have been a big factor in this.
Lower bag weights in holds.
Slow getting bags afterwards
Theft from bags in holds
Theft of goods after a crash
Bigger OH Bins.
Lower bag weights in holds.
Slow getting bags afterwards
Theft from bags in holds
Theft of goods after a crash
Bigger OH Bins.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Tourist
"Just for the record, If I'm standing waiting for people in front of me to get out, I see no fire then I'm probably going to take my bag."
I have not been in an aircraft fire but I have been in a flat when a fire started. I have seen with my own eyes, and smelt with my own nostrils, how it's the smoke that gets you, not the fire. And you have seconds. Oh OK, minutes if you like - two or three minutes tops. I've no problem if you want to play chicken with your own life by retrieving your bag, but you cannot do that without risking others, which you have no right to do.
I have not been in an aircraft fire but I have been in a flat when a fire started. I have seen with my own eyes, and smelt with my own nostrils, how it's the smoke that gets you, not the fire. And you have seconds. Oh OK, minutes if you like - two or three minutes tops. I've no problem if you want to play chicken with your own life by retrieving your bag, but you cannot do that without risking others, which you have no right to do.