Instructions to PAX to ignore safety instructions
#20 has it right. Also, take a look at the Wikipedia article photo: Brace position - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The object isn't to bend double and put your head on your knees. It is to use up the empty space between your head and the seat back just in front of you. The object that your head will accelerate towards when the aircraft comes to a sudden stop.
The object isn't to bend double and put your head on your knees. It is to use up the empty space between your head and the seat back just in front of you. The object that your head will accelerate towards when the aircraft comes to a sudden stop.
The issue about pax taking their hand luggage with them just shows how sensible and practical pax actually are. They know that if they follow the instructions and leave without their documentation in their hand luggage, their lives will be made a misery. The immigration officials at San Francisco, seeing a bedraggled set of Asian passengers approaching them with no passports, would have immediately sent for a bulk order of handcuffs. Attempts to board onward or return flights, or even just check in at the hotel, would be thwarted at every opportunity, there being of course no procedures anywhere to cater for pax whose documents (eg those in women's handbags) were "left behind in accordance with the safety card instructions". If they go to get their tickets reissued they will be stung for a fee - and then if their credit card was in the handbag they will just be told to get lost.
For those who reckon that the brace position is attainable, I can only presume they luxuriate in business class at all times (doubtless paid for by others). They should try it seated three-across in the rear cabin of a low-cost, 28" seat pitch aircraft. Give it a shot yourself sometime, have three of you walk back to the cheap seats after arrival, squeeze in side-by-side, and give it a shot at getting anywhere near what the card shows..
Rear-facing seats a la RAF were long ago shown to be worse for safety in a sudden deceleration, where much of the danger comes from cabin debris flying forward, which you are pretty much protected from by the seatback in forward-facing seats, but not at all in rearward-facing ones. Even the RAF eventually realised this and gave them up on their most recent transport aircraft.
For those who reckon that the brace position is attainable, I can only presume they luxuriate in business class at all times (doubtless paid for by others). They should try it seated three-across in the rear cabin of a low-cost, 28" seat pitch aircraft. Give it a shot yourself sometime, have three of you walk back to the cheap seats after arrival, squeeze in side-by-side, and give it a shot at getting anywhere near what the card shows..
Rear-facing seats a la RAF were long ago shown to be worse for safety in a sudden deceleration, where much of the danger comes from cabin debris flying forward, which you are pretty much protected from by the seatback in forward-facing seats, but not at all in rearward-facing ones. Even the RAF eventually realised this and gave them up on their most recent transport aircraft.
Last edited by WHBM; 18th Jul 2013 at 23:40.
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@ExXB. More easy bashing from you! The foreign language PAs on "Squeezy" as you so maturely put it are in a way that you don't need shown at the time of the announcement. The instructions are detailed in a way that you don't need to follow a crew member.
The English is then played with the demo and reaffirms what has been said in the foreign language PA. It is a CAA requirement that it is done this way. I believe easyJet are going to be able to do the safety demo in local languages such as French or Italian domestic routes as part of the AOC.
As one of Europes largest airlines serving many countries and languages, how do you propose the manual demo is done if crew don't speak the language (same as for example BA crew). There are trilingual destinations too. Again what do you propose?
The English is then played with the demo and reaffirms what has been said in the foreign language PA. It is a CAA requirement that it is done this way. I believe easyJet are going to be able to do the safety demo in local languages such as French or Italian domestic routes as part of the AOC.
As one of Europes largest airlines serving many countries and languages, how do you propose the manual demo is done if crew don't speak the language (same as for example BA crew). There are trilingual destinations too. Again what do you propose?
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My bash concerns;
- failure to secure cabin before 'foreign' language tape ran. People were still in the aisle and stowing/moving carry-on.
- the cabin crew were doing other things while briefing was being played.
What would I have done? Well how about exactly what EasyJet-Switzerland does. They do a full briefing in both French and English (on flights to/from Geneva - I'm not certain what they do in Basle but I suspect they do German/French/English). Swiss do it in three languages.
The crew don't need to be fluent in the 'other' language of the flight, but they could follow along demonstrating the safety items. If necessary English 'cues' could be included in the text to prompt the crew to what they should be doing. The demonstration is an important part of the briefing, and I doubt if the CAA would have a problem if a full demonstration was done in more than one language.
I am astounded that local language briefings are not done on domestic flights. What are they thinking?
- failure to secure cabin before 'foreign' language tape ran. People were still in the aisle and stowing/moving carry-on.
- the cabin crew were doing other things while briefing was being played.
What would I have done? Well how about exactly what EasyJet-Switzerland does. They do a full briefing in both French and English (on flights to/from Geneva - I'm not certain what they do in Basle but I suspect they do German/French/English). Swiss do it in three languages.
The crew don't need to be fluent in the 'other' language of the flight, but they could follow along demonstrating the safety items. If necessary English 'cues' could be included in the text to prompt the crew to what they should be doing. The demonstration is an important part of the briefing, and I doubt if the CAA would have a problem if a full demonstration was done in more than one language.
I am astounded that local language briefings are not done on domestic flights. What are they thinking?
Moving on from hand baggage taken with you to the safety briefing.
Boarding an A320 recently (it happened to be BA but could have been any operator), and being seated directly over the wing, the briefing started together with pushback and engine start. In normal A320 manner, where one engine runs before the other, the familiar "dog barking" noise of the Power Transfer Unit started up, and being just underneath our seats it completely drowned out any of the PA announcement.
Should I really draw the attention of the crew and ask for it to be repeated once both engines are running and the racket has stopped ?
Boarding an A320 recently (it happened to be BA but could have been any operator), and being seated directly over the wing, the briefing started together with pushback and engine start. In normal A320 manner, where one engine runs before the other, the familiar "dog barking" noise of the Power Transfer Unit started up, and being just underneath our seats it completely drowned out any of the PA announcement.
Should I really draw the attention of the crew and ask for it to be repeated once both engines are running and the racket has stopped ?
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Regarding the foreign language PA on domestics easyJet want it. It's the CAA that was dragging its heels but I believe it's on it's way in now. It would be a change in the AOC and it's not as simple as just sending in a letter to the CAA.
In terms of ques. I honestly don't know how it would be done. There must be 12 or so languages on the PRAM.
It's a very anti eJ part of Prune is this, but as a comparison I flew bmi regional from my local airport to Brussels a few years back. The safety demo was manual in English only.
That's great about EZS, but what would you propose the crew do on an Arabic speaking flight? Or Maltese, Portuguese and now even Russian.
Without screens it's all about getting the balance right. If you need to do three full demos in three languages then that's 10 minutes gone. This will mean passengers having to be onboard the craft sooner and the cabin secure. If you're departing 27 at Bristol ten it's a very short taxi. Would you be happy sat there ready to go but having to wait ten minutes to listen to three demos.
In terms of ques. I honestly don't know how it would be done. There must be 12 or so languages on the PRAM.
It's a very anti eJ part of Prune is this, but as a comparison I flew bmi regional from my local airport to Brussels a few years back. The safety demo was manual in English only.
That's great about EZS, but what would you propose the crew do on an Arabic speaking flight? Or Maltese, Portuguese and now even Russian.
Without screens it's all about getting the balance right. If you need to do three full demos in three languages then that's 10 minutes gone. This will mean passengers having to be onboard the craft sooner and the cabin secure. If you're departing 27 at Bristol ten it's a very short taxi. Would you be happy sat there ready to go but having to wait ten minutes to listen to three demos.
Last edited by fa2fi; 19th Jul 2013 at 11:01.
If you need to do three full demos in three languages then that's 10 minutes gone. This will mean passengers having to be onboard the craft sooner and the cabin secure. If you're departing 27 at Bristol ten it's a very short taxi. Would you be happy sat there ready to go but having to wait ten minutes to listen to three demos.
I recall connecting from London to a Finnish domestic Saab 340 at Helsinki, 34 seats, about 12 pax on board. Usually they had one cabin attendant but this time had a second trainee. In standard Finnish bilingual style they did the whole briefing (one on PA, other doing the motions) in Finnish, followed by the whole thing again in Swedish. Then they looked at their manifest, looked at ME, looked at one another and nodded, and did the whole thing again in English, which of course I showed full attention to. Didn't take anything like an extra 10 minutes.
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The eJ safety demo takes around three minutes. If you want to do it one language at a time there's 9 minutes.
Give or take a few seconds for the demo to start in the language.
Do you propose that the demo be shortened to fit it into the three languages in a shorter time? And skip detail?
And your comment about the noise of the PTU is an utter nonsense! Always sit in or near the over wing exits and I've never had a problem hearing BAs safety demo.
Making a comparison to a Scandinavian airline is a little unfair. Being bi or trilingual there is very common. With your modern European large airline you have less chance of crews speaking the languages of the city being served. This would not work with crew who don't speak the languages of the demo.
Sunwing have a safety video in English and French lasting over 8 minutes long. If it were in a third language it would be even longer.
Give or take a few seconds for the demo to start in the language.
Do you propose that the demo be shortened to fit it into the three languages in a shorter time? And skip detail?
And your comment about the noise of the PTU is an utter nonsense! Always sit in or near the over wing exits and I've never had a problem hearing BAs safety demo.
Making a comparison to a Scandinavian airline is a little unfair. Being bi or trilingual there is very common. With your modern European large airline you have less chance of crews speaking the languages of the city being served. This would not work with crew who don't speak the languages of the demo.
Sunwing have a safety video in English and French lasting over 8 minutes long. If it were in a third language it would be even longer.
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Being somewhat taller than average, I always pay the bit extra for a legroom seat, (which has the added advantage of being (very) near an emergency exit!). I know that I have room to adopt an effective brace position. The reason for this is that on one of my first flights (about 10 years ago), the pilot aborted the take-off at the last moment, and stomped on the brakes (which he later explained was due to the fact that his seat shot back on its runners). During the stop, I was lucky not to hit my face on the back of the seat in front. Others were not quite so lucky.
Personally, I'd be happier with harnesses - I'm involved in rallying as navigator and safety provision, and I know what a big difference they make to survivability. However, I know that it is not really practical, so make do with what we are given.
Regarding taking luggage out of a damaged plane - I would not do it. Everything I will need from the minute I enter the airport to check in to when I get to my destination is on my person the whole time: passport, tickets, directions to destination, wallet, phone, keys (except when passing through security, when I tend to but everything except the phone in my baggage). Clothes with sufficient pockets are not hard to get, and I do not understand people who willingly separate themselves from these things. I might tend to be somewhat impatient with anyone p***ing about with baggage whilst impeding my exit from a damaged aircraft ...
Personally, I'd be happier with harnesses - I'm involved in rallying as navigator and safety provision, and I know what a big difference they make to survivability. However, I know that it is not really practical, so make do with what we are given.
Regarding taking luggage out of a damaged plane - I would not do it. Everything I will need from the minute I enter the airport to check in to when I get to my destination is on my person the whole time: passport, tickets, directions to destination, wallet, phone, keys (except when passing through security, when I tend to but everything except the phone in my baggage). Clothes with sufficient pockets are not hard to get, and I do not understand people who willingly separate themselves from these things. I might tend to be somewhat impatient with anyone p***ing about with baggage whilst impeding my exit from a damaged aircraft ...
