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Why are BA still spead out at Heathrow?

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Why are BA still spead out at Heathrow?

Old 30th Dec 2012, 11:42
  #1 (permalink)  
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Why are BA still spead out at Heathrow?

My wife and I have just returned home after a nice xmas holiday back in the motherland...during which we did a bit of transiting through Heathrow.
One of these trips was a flight from Aberdeen to Prague...which showed on the ticket as a transfer from Terminal 5 to Terminal 3 (and vice versa on return)

My query is WHY do BA have flights out of terminal 3 (and also terminal 1) when I thought terminal 5 was built to accomodate them. It seems a bit of an inconvenience especially when you have to go through a full security check each time you transfer from terminal to terminal...and surely it isn't how BA envisaged their operations at Heathrow once T5 was built. Is it a slot issue, capacity issue, stand issue etc?

Curious as my wife asked me thinking I would know and my knowledge failed me on this occasion. Any info would be greatfully received.

Last edited by Married a Canadian; 30th Dec 2012 at 11:44.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 11:54
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My understanding is that T5 isn't big enough. I think T1 is for the BMI stuff they took over that was at T1 anyway.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 12:02
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I agree with radeng that T5 is "not big enough" to house all BA's LHR operations. But another way of looking at it would be to say that BA's operation is "too big" for T5.

Is BA just being a bit greedy, trying to fit too many flights into a space that won't take them? Yes, and inconveniencing passengers more than they allow them greater choice.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 12:28
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Likely that another satellite for T5 will be built...but will that be enough? And I don't think BA are being greedy...as the national (albeit privately owned) airline, they are going to command most slots at LHR. I think their percentage though is lower than for some other nationals, eg. AF at CDG.

Last edited by NWSRG; 30th Dec 2012 at 12:28.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 12:44
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God you lot know how to whine! Is BA being greedy offering passengers service to both PRG and ABZ? That's GREED?????

How very 21st Century British. Forgive the rant, I am in Hong Kong and suddenly my homeland looks so much more local.....

T5 isn't big enough, the overspill sits in T3 with Oneworld partners, the current T1 routes were inherited from BMI and can't simply be consolidated into T3 as there's not enough room. They will move however, into T3 once T2 opens and STAR ALLIANCE members vacate T3. If people put half as much effort into pragmatically addressing the issue if airport hub connectivity as they did pointing out the current issues, we'd trounce the Chinese.

Forgive me, I've been looking at the future and it's not European !!!
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 12:54
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Married a Canadian the answer is simple: Heathrow is too small. Way too small.

Please could you ask the politicians in the 1960s/70s/80s/90s/00s/10s to sort it out? The airport has been a quart/pint pot for decades and there are several threads runing on this is A.A.&R. but, to save you the trouble of reading them: Nothing is going to change and, once many of the hub services have moved to the Continent and Middle East, the greatly reduced services at LHR will fit in neatly with the size of the place as it is now.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 13:14
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There is an argument that the politicians in the late 1940's and 50's were the first ones who got it wrong by allowing so much development close to Heathrow that expansion became practically impossible.

But nobody wants an airport near them, having problems with wanting the employment and economic benefits it brings without having the noise and traffic.....

I just wonder what would happen to the economic situation in the LHR area and West London in general if LHR were to close......
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 13:35
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God you lot know how to whine! Is BA being greedy offering passengers service to both PRG and ABZ?
Calm down Skipness....I was not whining, merely asking the question. You would have to admit though that if it seems like the British (which I am) whine a lot it is because they see how it can be done elsewhere (aviation wise)and ask the question..."why not us?"
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 14:42
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as stated the old BMI flights from ABZ -LHR still go to T1 - all teh others ABZ flights are T5

need to check your booking carefully

you also sometimes get QF operating from T4 rather than T3 - can be a shock at check-in if you're not careful
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 19:05
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Nobody goes there anymore, it's always too crowded. *with apologies to Yogi Berra!
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 21:08
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Slight correction to Heathrow Harry's post....

As of Winter 2012/2013 - The only domestic services from T1 that BA/Bmi do are BHD (Belfast City) & LBA (Leeds Bradford).

The MAN, EDI & ABZ services that Bmi flew are now amalgamated with the BA services out of T5.

Hopefully a more intergrated terminal arrangement will be in place once the new T2 is complete!

Last edited by Thunderbug; 30th Dec 2012 at 21:08.
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Old 31st Dec 2012, 07:50
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you also sometimes get QF operating from T4 rather than T3 - can be a shock at check-in if you're not careful
When has this ever happened and more to the point, why??
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Old 31st Dec 2012, 23:47
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Thankyou for the replies everyone..and it pretty much confirms what I thought I knew.

Hopefully a more intergrated terminal arrangement will be in place once the new T2 is complete!
This I hope is the crux to Heathrow becoming easier to navigate. The size issue will never be solved now (in my opinion)...so it is down to making the logistics of the terminal space available easier. I will watch T2 and T3 with interest and hope that when completed it will smooth the passenger flow through the airport.
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Old 12th Jan 2013, 14:02
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T5 was built before they bought BMI for a start

There is space for T5 for T5D, T5E, T5F and maybe T5G, but first it would require the demolishion of T3

Will this be enough for BA's ops (including growth and for agruements sake VS's and EI's LHR ops?)?

Until then once several carriers leave T3 (once T2 opns), I am guessing that BA will consolodate into T3-T5, if not then we coul see BA flights out of T2...

For the longer term (if allowed), there is space for up to 4 addtional runways and with that 1-2 addtional terminal complexs (i.e. routhly the size of T2-T3-T5)
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Old 12th Jan 2013, 14:25
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there is space for up to 4 addtional runways
Making six in total, then ...

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously ?
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Old 12th Jan 2013, 14:41
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if not then we coul see BA flights out of T2..
BA will not be operating out of T2.

Heathrow Airport today announced that the new Terminal 2 will be home to STAR Alliance and Aer Lingus flights as well as Virgin Atlantic’s domestic routes when it opens in 2014.
The new Terminal 2 will give Heathrow the best passenger facilities of any major hub in Europe. 75% of passengers at Heathrow already rate their experience as ‘Excellent’ or ‘Very Good’ following the opening of Terminal 5 and the refurbishment of Terminals 1, 3 and 4 (up from 41% in 2006). The airline moves announced today would enable the early closure of Terminal 1 which would allow all passengers to travel through new or refurbished terminals from 2016.
The new terminal marks the latest phase of an £11 billion transformation of Heathrow. 20 million passengers a year will eventually use the new terminal, which consists of a main terminal building plus satellite building and aircraft parking stands. The £2.5billion development is the largest privately-funded construction project in the UK and has been delivered at no cost to the taxpayer. 35,000 people will have worked on the terminal over the lifetime of the project.
The decision on which airlines will operate from the terminal follows a nine-month consultation with airlines which was prompted by the sale of bmi to IAG, the owner of British Airways.
Since the review began in March 2012, Heathrow has met with airlines and the Civil Aviation Authority on a regular basis to agree the terms of reference and evaluation process and to listen to feedback. All the relevant data has been shared with all parties to ensure a fair and transparent process. Heathrow is required to treat all airlines equitably, and 18 separate options for the new terminal were considered and assessed against agreed criteria. The process has led to the decision that the following airlines will operate from Terminal 2:
STAR Alliance. The STAR Alliance network is one of three global airline alliances, and the second largest alliance operating from Heathrow. Its airlines currently operate from Terminals 1, 3 and 4. Globally, STAR has the highest number of member airlines, daily flights, and destinations of any airline alliance. Its airline members operating from Heathrow include: Aegean Air, Air Canada, Air China, Air New Zealand, All Nippon Airways, Asiana Airlines, Austrian Airlines, Brussels Airlines, Croatia Airlines, EgyptAir, Ethiopian Airlines, EVA Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Lufthansa German Airlines, SAS Scandinavian Airlines, Singapore Airlines, South African Airways, Swiss International Airlines, TAP Air Portugal, Thai Airways International, Turkish Airlines, United Airlines, US Airways.
Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus is the national airline of Ireland and Heathrow’s fourth largest airline. Aer Lingus currently operates from Terminal 1.
Virgin Atlantic. Virgin Atlantic is the UK’s second largest long-haul airline with a fleet of 40 aircraft. From summer 2013, Virgin Atlantic will operate domestic routes from Heathrow to Manchester, Edinburgh and Aberdeen following the award of ‘remedy slots’ as a result of IAG’s acquisition of bmi. These flights will initially operate from Terminal 1 (where bmi was based) before moving to Terminal 2 in 2014. Virgin Atlantic’s international flights will continue to operate from Terminal 3. Heathrow will continue to work with Virgin Atlantic on how its services might be co-located in the future.
Heathrow is still in discussion with those airlines which currently operate from Terminal 1 and are not members of the Star Alliance (El Al, Icelandair, Cyprus Airways, Germanwings and Transaero), about their future location when Terminal 1 closes. We expect to conclude these discussions in early 2013.

Heathrow Airport media information for journalists and the press - Featured articles - Heathrow confirms Terminal 2 airline occupancy - Heathrow Airport media information for journalists and the press
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 17:17
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So United will be able to unite all its operations, but VS / DL will be split between terminals 2 & 4.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 09:35
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Making six in total, then ...

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously ?
I am calling for another 2, but I was making the point, there is enough space for a further 2 in the surrounding area, of course it would very unpopular in the surrounding area...
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 11:06
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So United will be able to unite all its operations, but VS / DL will be split between terminals 2 & 4.
VS remain in T3 with domestic launching from T1 and moving to T2 which was designed with a domestic in mind for bmi. The DL / VS thing is recent thing and although DL might want to move their operations to T3 it might take some doing as it's 8+ B767-400ERs rotations needing gate space. Added to the fact that the rest of Skyteam partners and the Skyteam lounge are in T4 which was remodelled for Skyteam and is hardly bursting at the seams, it would make operational sense to move VS to T3 as they are currently in what will be the Oneworld Terminal. Sticking point is the Virgin Clubhouse.

VS actually use gates that were used by BOAC B747-100s on delivery and haven't changed much since.

Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 14th Jan 2013 at 11:07.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 12:08
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Heathrow Airport today announced that the new Terminal 2 will be home to STAR Alliance and Aer Lingus flights as well as Virgin Atlantic’s domestic routes when it opens in 2014.

The new Terminal 2 will give Heathrow the best passenger facilities of any major hub in Europe. 75% of passengers at Heathrow already rate their experience as ‘Excellent’ or ‘Very Good’ following the opening of Terminal 5 and the refurbishment of Terminals 1, 3 and 4 (up from 41% in 2006). The airline moves announced today would enable the early closure of Terminal 1 which would allow all passengers to travel through new or refurbished terminals from 2016.
The new terminal marks the latest phase of an £11 billion transformation of Heathrow. 20 million passengers a year will eventually use the new terminal, which consists of a main terminal building plus satellite building and aircraft parking stands. The £2.5billion development is the largest privately-funded construction project in the UK and has been delivered at no cost to the taxpayer. 35,000 people will have worked on the terminal over the lifetime of the project.
The decision on which airlines will operate from the terminal follows a nine-month consultation with airlines which was prompted by the sale of bmi to IAG, the owner of British Airways.
Since the review began in March 2012, Heathrow has met with airlines and the Civil Aviation Authority on a regular basis to agree the terms of reference and evaluation process and to listen to feedback. All the relevant data has been shared with all parties to ensure a fair and transparent process. Heathrow is required to treat all airlines equitably, and 18 separate options for the new terminal were considered and assessed against agreed criteria. The process has led to the decision that the following airlines will operate from Terminal 2:
STAR Alliance. The STAR Alliance network is one of three global airline alliances, and the second largest alliance operating from Heathrow. Its airlines currently operate from Terminals 1, 3 and 4. Globally, STAR has the highest number of member airlines, daily flights, and destinations of any airline alliance. Its airline members operating from Heathrow include: Aegean Air, Air Canada, Air China, Air New Zealand, All Nippon Airways, Asiana Airlines, Austrian Airlines, Brussels Airlines, Croatia Airlines, EgyptAir, Ethiopian Airlines, EVA Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Lufthansa German Airlines, SAS Scandinavian Airlines, Singapore Airlines, South African Airways, Swiss International Airlines, TAP Air Portugal, Thai Airways International, Turkish Airlines, United Airlines, US Airways.
Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus is the national airline of Ireland and Heathrow’s fourth largest airline. Aer Lingus currently operates from Terminal 1.
Virgin Atlantic. Virgin Atlantic is the UK’s second largest long-haul airline with a fleet of 40 aircraft. From summer 2013, Virgin Atlantic will operate domestic routes from Heathrow to Manchester, Edinburgh and Aberdeen following the award of ‘remedy slots’ as a result of IAG’s acquisition of bmi. These flights will initially operate from Terminal 1 (where bmi was based) before moving to Terminal 2 in 2014. Virgin Atlantic’s international flights will continue to operate from Terminal 3. Heathrow will continue to work with Virgin Atlantic on how its services might be co-located in the future.
Heathrow is still in discussion with those airlines which currently operate from Terminal 1 and are not members of the Star Alliance (El Al, Icelandair, Cyprus Airways, Germanwings and Transaero), about their future location when Terminal 1 closes. We expect to conclude these discussions in early 2013.
Any news on VS's plan to move all its ops into T2 or is that plan scraped after their deal with DL

After all now their LH ops are in T3, their UK flights are in T1 and their new partners are in T4, they better sort this out soon

Also I only suggested they might end up in T2 because they have yet to decide what to do about their T1/T3 ops, I would suggest they move it all to T3 (now that there will be space after the opening of T2)

VS remain in T3 with domestic launching from T1 and moving to T2 which was designed with a domestic in mind for bmi. The DL / VS thing is recent thing and although DL might want to move their operations to T3 it might take some doing as it's 8+ B767-400ERs rotations needing gate space. Added to the fact that the rest of Skyteam partners and the Skyteam lounge are in T4 which was remodelled for Skyteam and is hardly bursting at the seams, it would make operational sense to move VS to T3 as they are currently in what will be the Oneworld Terminal. Sticking point is the Virgin Clubhouse.
I doubt if DL wants to move to T3, otherwise its ST members will have to follow as well, more likely VS will move into T4, but is there enough space for VS's ops at T1 + T3?

They would also have to build a CTA area at T4 to fit VS's LHR-MAN/EDI/ABZ flights (unless they are gone by then...)

Would you mind explaining why the Virgin Clubhouse at T3 is a sticking point (is there space for one at T4 or will VS use the ST Lounge?)
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