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Siemens boycotts Ryanair

Old 28th Sep 2012, 15:51
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Surely a company has the right to make the decision as to what airlines it uses, or are we missing information?
I'm not at all familiar with EU laws/regulations. Here in the USA, your statement is generally true, with some serious exceptions: Entering into some contracts (as a GSA supplier, for example) obliges you to adopt certain business practices and policies. Among these are standards for bidding and requesting quotes to and from 'qualified' vendors. Part of these regulations define who may be or may not be 'qualified'. If similar regulations exist within the EU (and Siemens is obliged to follow them), then Ryanair may still have the right to bid for contracts.

Someone knowledgeable on EU regs will have to step in and comment on this.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 15:52
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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So Siemens are (dish)washing their hands of Ryanair?
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 15:54
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Question

The larger issue would really be about why a reputable company as Siemens would send its valued employees on such el cheapo flights.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 15:55
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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EEngr,

I don't know either. Siemens could get out of that by letting Ryanair bid, but by never letting them win the bid due to "safety" issues.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 15:57
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, the truth is out:

http://cphpost.dk/news/international...anding-billund

They were no doubt arguing about respective merits of Siemens and Hotpoint appliances
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 15:58
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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How many of Siemens' 400,000 employees are going to be travelling for business? Not many. 1%? If that.

Joe Public are just going to look for the cheapest fares, regardless of reputation.

Not sure Mike and Steve should be that worried to be honest.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 15:59
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Just asking - Did the Rome multiple birdstrike and resultant very hard landing get treated/classified as an accident or an incident by the authorities?
An accident is defined (ICAO Annex 13) as:

"An occurrence ... in which ... b) the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component".

It would be hard to argue that poking a MLG leg up through the wing doesn't fit that criterion - therefore it's technically as accident, not an incident.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 16:07
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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During the second World War, Siemens supported the Hitler regime, contributed to the war effort and participated in the "Nazification" of the economy
Siemens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hey, wondering nobody is already bashing with this amunition.

But let's wait until the anglian press kicks in....

Last edited by hetfield; 28th Sep 2012 at 16:13.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 16:17
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Tableview, translation follows below:

the board of executives at Siemens has made this decision due to the fact that Ryanair has had a number of recent incidents (tillbud and incident means the same) and it is a signal to the entire aviation industry.

Edit: no sign here of Siemens mentioning anything about an accident (olycka)

Last edited by FI-A; 28th Sep 2012 at 16:18.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 16:20
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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It will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Am not surprised but still amazed by Ryanair's public reaction. If I was the CEO I would be contacting Siemens for a meeting to find out the reason for the embargo and then show them the statistics (especially compared to other operators) and even offering some sweetener to keep them.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 16:25
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Here is the 'offending' sentence :

Quote:
Siemens koncernledning har fattat beslutet sedan Ryanair drabbats av ett antal tillbud och incidenter den senaste tiden och är en signal till hela flygbranschen.
My knowledge of Swedish is very basic but it is a Germanic based language and I speak German. With a bit of help from Google, it seems that 'tillbud' means incident, and the word for 'accident' (olycka) does not appear. So somewhere the original report appears to have lost something in översättning.

Any Swedish speakers around before I pop next door to ask the Swedish au pair!
"Tillbud" and "incident" (singular form of "incidenter" used above, which is the same as incidents) are nuances of the same thing. An "incident" (spelling is the same in English and Swedish) is the same thing, how ever a "Tillbud" is something that could have developed into an incident, but isn't as severe. In Swedish we often use "tillbud" as you would use "incident" (as something that could have lead to an accident).

Literally translated it means "to"-"bid". Till being "to" and bud being "bid". But the word "bud" can be interpeted not only as a bid at an auction but also something taking place. Hence "something that was (potentially) going to happen".

I'm not sure if this made you any wiser but it was worth a try I guess
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 17:23
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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re post 21.

With my knowledge of contracting (admittedly mainly in UK) you can put anything you want in a contract as long as both parties agree (with exception of those deamed penalty clauses or illegal terms). If Seimens has an explicit term relating to risk management, and the recent "incidents" trigger some review, then yes, they may well be able to terminate the contract. Having said that, I doubt the contract is with Ryanair directly, probably with a "Travel Agency / consultant" as stated in a post above.

What is interesting is why they chose to go public (if indeed it was choice). Contracts are generally not discussed outside of the 2 parties.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 17:24
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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No mention of who else is on the "do not fly" list?
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 17:34
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Siemens wind turbines have also had a few "incidents" ...

Man killed when wind tower collapses | News | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon

Siemens extends 2.3MW turbine investigation amid 'defect' concern | Windpower Monthly

Given many wind turbines are located near or even over public footpaths should there be an industry safety regulator as there is for airlines?
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 17:52
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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H&S and Duty of Care

All companies have a duty of care for their employees and the methods of transport utilized for/during work . The same principles would apply with the boards responsibility of workers re intoxicants etc .
Ipso Facto
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 17:56
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Show me an airline that HASN'T had an incident?

On top of that, if you assume there was only one mega huge global airline that operated all the aircraft ever to fly/crash/not look right/get cancelled, flying is STILL safer than the trip to the airport, even if you choose to fly with the carrier with the worst safety record in the world.

'nuff said, and the risk analysts want to analyze their risk to the public.

Last edited by ECAM_Actions; 28th Sep 2012 at 17:58.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 17:57
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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The reality is that Ryanair have one of the best safety records in the world let alone Europe over nearly a 30 year period.
But with many many near misses, like this one, it makes chilling reading.....



Report: Ryanair B738 at Rome on Sep 7th 2005, loss of situational awareness and terrain clearance


... and in another way, very sad reading for the personal circumstances of the Captain.

But thats the Ryanair culture, one of creating fear amongst employees.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 17:58
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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"Am not surprised but still amazed by Ryanair's public reaction. If I was the CEO I would be contacting Siemens for a meeting to find out the reason for the embargo and then show them the statistics (especially compared to other operators) and even offering some sweetener to keep them. "

O'Leary? A sweetener?!

Saltener more like.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 18:44
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect you simply have an agenda when it comes to Ryanair.
What a ridiculous statement.

The discussion was about what are the criteria that define an accident. If you have a problem with those definitions, take it up with ICAO.

Feel free to search the history of my posts on PPRuNe for any evidence of an anti-Ryanair agenda.

Over to you.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 18:51
  #40 (permalink)  
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”If this story is true, then Ryanair will take legal action against Siemens”
Probably to avoid that sort of stain on their character.
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