Various business class seats
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Various business class seats
Just a few notes and a surprise about business class seats...
Here are a subset of the flights I have made over the last few months and comments on the seats:
LHR<->Seattle and LHR<->Dallas on BA: the usual Club World seats. I have been noticing that the tables have varying amounts of tilt and had to hold it up using a pillow on one flight as there were no free seats to move into. BA has the best privacy, though the seats are narrowest.
Frankfurt-SFO with an A380: Same Lufthansa seats as on other LH flights as far as I can tell. The only difference appears to be that the screens have better resolution. The air conditioning seems very different. I get really dry bleeding sinuses on most 11-12 hour flights and did not feel that at all on the A380. Another passenger told me the A380 is the only aircraft where the air is humidified. The angled lie-flat seats used to be good, but now seem outdated. I have not been on the new 747-800s with the new seats.
Zurich-SFO on an A340 with Swiss: The seats/lie-flat beds are very comfortable indeed. More comfortable than those in First Class on the way back. The A340s have the old First Class seats and there is no plan to change them before the aircraft are changed, according to a crew member. The First Class seats are allegedly much better on the A330, but I have not tried them. For privacy, be sure to choose the business class seats that are on their own. I think these are all along the right side of the cabin and every second row on the left.
Vienna-Dubai on Austrian on a 767: Angled seat/beds in poor condition. Outdated video. Not very comfortable.
United Newark->Geneva and Chicago->Frankfurt: Surprisingly, in my opinion, by far the best video system with big high-res screens. Easily the best lie-flat seat for sleeping. Don't know why. Something to do with the way the area around the seat hinge really goes flat, I think.
So... if the timing works and you don't have to worry about earning HON miles (not possible on United, while Senator miles work fine), take the United rather than LH flights on any route where they operate, in my opinion. I don't know how much of the fleet has the new seats though.
Here are a subset of the flights I have made over the last few months and comments on the seats:
LHR<->Seattle and LHR<->Dallas on BA: the usual Club World seats. I have been noticing that the tables have varying amounts of tilt and had to hold it up using a pillow on one flight as there were no free seats to move into. BA has the best privacy, though the seats are narrowest.
Frankfurt-SFO with an A380: Same Lufthansa seats as on other LH flights as far as I can tell. The only difference appears to be that the screens have better resolution. The air conditioning seems very different. I get really dry bleeding sinuses on most 11-12 hour flights and did not feel that at all on the A380. Another passenger told me the A380 is the only aircraft where the air is humidified. The angled lie-flat seats used to be good, but now seem outdated. I have not been on the new 747-800s with the new seats.
Zurich-SFO on an A340 with Swiss: The seats/lie-flat beds are very comfortable indeed. More comfortable than those in First Class on the way back. The A340s have the old First Class seats and there is no plan to change them before the aircraft are changed, according to a crew member. The First Class seats are allegedly much better on the A330, but I have not tried them. For privacy, be sure to choose the business class seats that are on their own. I think these are all along the right side of the cabin and every second row on the left.
Vienna-Dubai on Austrian on a 767: Angled seat/beds in poor condition. Outdated video. Not very comfortable.
United Newark->Geneva and Chicago->Frankfurt: Surprisingly, in my opinion, by far the best video system with big high-res screens. Easily the best lie-flat seat for sleeping. Don't know why. Something to do with the way the area around the seat hinge really goes flat, I think.
So... if the timing works and you don't have to worry about earning HON miles (not possible on United, while Senator miles work fine), take the United rather than LH flights on any route where they operate, in my opinion. I don't know how much of the fleet has the new seats though.
American Airlines to Chicago in May. Poor. 2 - 3 - 2 arrangement, no flatbed, about the same as Club World in 1980. Usual not quite grumpy CC, giving an impression of being PO at having to work.
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Qatar , MAN-DOH-MNL.
A330-200/300, 2-2-2, nice but not lie-flat. AVOD and screens easy to use. Good legroom.
B777-200LR/300ER, 2-2-2, VERY nice lie flat (6'4") beds, wide seats. AVOD choices same as A330 but touch screen extra. Suprisingly more difficult to use by hand-held control.
Superb in every way. Can't wait for October for my next flights.
A330-200/300, 2-2-2, nice but not lie-flat. AVOD and screens easy to use. Good legroom.
B777-200LR/300ER, 2-2-2, VERY nice lie flat (6'4") beds, wide seats. AVOD choices same as A330 but touch screen extra. Suprisingly more difficult to use by hand-held control.
Superb in every way. Can't wait for October for my next flights.
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I've recently got back from a 2 day trip to Abu Dhabi, and I must say that the Etihad seats in Business Class were excellent - private and plenty of space to stow things.
I love the BA seats, specifically the rear-facing window seats for long haul, only niggle for me - there is nowhere to place your specs while you catch some sleep. If you use the drawer you have to bring your seat all the way back to be able to see again!!!
I love the BA seats, specifically the rear-facing window seats for long haul, only niggle for me - there is nowhere to place your specs while you catch some sleep. If you use the drawer you have to bring your seat all the way back to be able to see again!!!
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The variation in hard product in business class, makes it necessary to do research on what you are actually buying.
For instance, the business class product on Kuwait Airways is inferior to the Premium Economy product on Qantas....
The best business class I've flown with, and I may be biased, is Oman Air. Although they were awarded by several organisations for being the best business class in the world.
I generally look for fully flat, and my preference to is generally Etihad since all the aircraft offer the same lieflat cubicals which ALL have aisle access, and they also offer as you wish dining.
For service, I found Asiana the best.
With non fully flat seats I barely see the point in flying business since I know I won't sleep.
Also not overly keen on the herringbone arrangement by some airline such as Cathay.
For instance, the business class product on Kuwait Airways is inferior to the Premium Economy product on Qantas....
The best business class I've flown with, and I may be biased, is Oman Air. Although they were awarded by several organisations for being the best business class in the world.
I generally look for fully flat, and my preference to is generally Etihad since all the aircraft offer the same lieflat cubicals which ALL have aisle access, and they also offer as you wish dining.
For service, I found Asiana the best.
With non fully flat seats I barely see the point in flying business since I know I won't sleep.
Also not overly keen on the herringbone arrangement by some airline such as Cathay.
SQ on the 380 and 777 have a flat bed, but when it's upright for sitting, I find it too wide to get comfortable - sounds weird I know but some friends and I were talking about this the other day and we all agree that it is fine for sleeping but not quite right when trying to eat.
Otherwise, the service is excellent, the IFE is pretty OK and the F&B usually good so I am happy to keep with SQ when it is an option.
Otherwise, the service is excellent, the IFE is pretty OK and the F&B usually good so I am happy to keep with SQ when it is an option.
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Etihad business seats are very nice, but the older "green / blue / snot" colour scheme is like a throwback to a 70s nightmare. The Swiss seat is the best I've come across so far though. I'm 6'6" and I can stretch out fully in it.
Etihad IVOD also requires some form of higher education diploma to operate too.
Etihad IVOD also requires some form of higher education diploma to operate too.
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I find the new United business seats too squishy -- very little support. The best business seat that I have occupied is herringbone on Air Canada -- lots of firm support, long and wide.
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Extremely impressed by business class on Oman Air LHR-KUl via MCT. Lie flat beds, great service and good transit lounge in Muscat - much needed refurbishment has taken place. Only gripe was the poor lounge at Terminal 3 LHR, although the food was good.
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@lenhamlad
Which lounge did you use? They are using the No.1 lounge now which is excellent, and has a selection of meals so that you can dine before you fly.
As for the OmanAir business seats, quite a lot of airlines operate the same seats for their First Class product.
Which lounge did you use? They are using the No.1 lounge now which is excellent, and has a selection of meals so that you can dine before you fly.
As for the OmanAir business seats, quite a lot of airlines operate the same seats for their First Class product.
Last edited by L'aviateur; 12th Jul 2012 at 15:10.
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Cathay Pacific scored a resounding success at the 2012 World Airline Awards, with air travellers voting the airline as providing the World's Best Business Class.
The survey, conducted by global aviation research organisation Skytrax, polled over 18 million business and leisure air travellers from 100 countries, with the winners of these passenger's choice awards announced at the Farnborough Airshow, UK on 12th July 2012.
"This is fantastic success for Cathay Pacific Airways, and provides worthy recognition of the airline's new long haul Business Class. To be named as the world's Best Business Class is a clear indication of the esteem passengers have for this new product and staff service, and must be particularly pleasing for the management and staff at Cathay Pacific. As possibly the most competitive category amongst airline products, it is a great achievement to be named best in the world" said Edward Plaisted of Skytrax.
Air travellers were surveyed by telephone, questionnaires and online about their experiences with airlines on the ground and in the air during a 10-month period. The survey measured passenger satisfaction across more than 38 key performance indicators of airline front-line product and service, including check-in, boarding, onboard seat comfort, cabin cleanliness, food, beverages, in-flight entertainment and staff service.
The survey covered over 200 airlines, from the largest international airlines to smaller domestic carriers.
The survey, conducted by global aviation research organisation Skytrax, polled over 18 million business and leisure air travellers from 100 countries, with the winners of these passenger's choice awards announced at the Farnborough Airshow, UK on 12th July 2012.
"This is fantastic success for Cathay Pacific Airways, and provides worthy recognition of the airline's new long haul Business Class. To be named as the world's Best Business Class is a clear indication of the esteem passengers have for this new product and staff service, and must be particularly pleasing for the management and staff at Cathay Pacific. As possibly the most competitive category amongst airline products, it is a great achievement to be named best in the world" said Edward Plaisted of Skytrax.
Air travellers were surveyed by telephone, questionnaires and online about their experiences with airlines on the ground and in the air during a 10-month period. The survey measured passenger satisfaction across more than 38 key performance indicators of airline front-line product and service, including check-in, boarding, onboard seat comfort, cabin cleanliness, food, beverages, in-flight entertainment and staff service.
The survey covered over 200 airlines, from the largest international airlines to smaller domestic carriers.
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L'Aviateur, I think it may have been the No 1 Lounge. As I said, the food ordered from the menu was very good and plentiful(don't know why I had a meal before boarding at nine at night to face another three course meal on the plane) but the lounge was full, with no easy chairs available, only tables to be had. It was one of those lounges where members of the public can pay £20 to get in, so it was pretty busy and the selection of buffet food available (if you were not flying OmanAir) was average at best. On the other hand, since the business class lounge at Muscat has moved up to the first floor (to the old first class?) things have improved dramatically. Looking very much forward to the opening of the new terminal buildings at Muscat. First worked in Muscat in 1980 and Seeb, as it was then, had only two gates.
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Now doing two transatlantics per month
Now going twice a month to the US from GVA, usually going to SFO, so have to transit somewhere. Company rules are to take least expensive business class, so travel a variety of airlines.
In the last year I have learned to adjust the Swiss seats to always be comfortable. I still think the United seats and Entertainment are best, though very little privacy and very old and grumpy flight crew from FRA and GVA-EWR. LHR-SFO United crew are London-based, younger and more cheerful. BA has most privacy, narrowest seats, problems with the tables sloping and things sliding off. Next two trips are on LH. Old sloped seats now appear obsolete. I don't know if the new ones have gone beyond the 747-8's yet. WIll be on A380 over from FRA and A340-600 back via MUC twice in next three weeks and expect the old seats. Swiss now systematically the most expensive as always full. Air France has added a late flight back from SFO 3 or 4 days a week, so expect to take them soon. Have not been on their new flat seats.
In the last year I have learned to adjust the Swiss seats to always be comfortable. I still think the United seats and Entertainment are best, though very little privacy and very old and grumpy flight crew from FRA and GVA-EWR. LHR-SFO United crew are London-based, younger and more cheerful. BA has most privacy, narrowest seats, problems with the tables sloping and things sliding off. Next two trips are on LH. Old sloped seats now appear obsolete. I don't know if the new ones have gone beyond the 747-8's yet. WIll be on A380 over from FRA and A340-600 back via MUC twice in next three weeks and expect the old seats. Swiss now systematically the most expensive as always full. Air France has added a late flight back from SFO 3 or 4 days a week, so expect to take them soon. Have not been on their new flat seats.
Paxing All Over The World
There is nothing like it! I've been there in various formats VS Upper Class, Sabena Biz and SAA Economy (possibly more!) and it was always a bonus.
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Continued...
Now going to the US from GVA about every third week... mainly to SFO, also Chicago, LAX, and Houston next week.
Confirming:
- United still most comfortable with best video system. Feels the most crowded due to lack of separation and 8 across. Steward(esse)s seem close to retirement age. Went once to SFO via LHR and the crew was London-based and younger/less grumpy.
- BA best for privacy. As others have said, window seats on upper deck have most room and decent storage space. Seats narrow, video system old, tables tend to slope towards the free end so things slide off.
- Swiss flat beds second-most comfortable after United. Sometimes feel the most comfortable if I can get the various adjustments just right. Video system seems higher res on A330s than on A340s.
- Lufthansa: have not yet flown the new business class. Try to avoid A380s as you can be at the back of the upper deck and have hundreds of people off the plane in front of you in the immigration queue. The A380 arrives at SFO at rush hour. Had to take it twice as it was cheapest business fare, but best avoided. 90 to 120 min in immigration queue at that time. A340 from SFO via Munich better for queues, though video system seems lower res than on A380.
- Air France 777: simple seat adjustments. Slight angle, but really good sleep nonetheless, possibly because it is the last flight from SFO to Europe, leaving at something like 21:25. Simple video system.
- KLM (747): least comfortable. Seat has considerable angle so I seem to slide down while trying to sleep. Simple video wiith low resolution. As others have noted, KLM due to start to change these seats.
Momo
Confirming:
- United still most comfortable with best video system. Feels the most crowded due to lack of separation and 8 across. Steward(esse)s seem close to retirement age. Went once to SFO via LHR and the crew was London-based and younger/less grumpy.
- BA best for privacy. As others have said, window seats on upper deck have most room and decent storage space. Seats narrow, video system old, tables tend to slope towards the free end so things slide off.
- Swiss flat beds second-most comfortable after United. Sometimes feel the most comfortable if I can get the various adjustments just right. Video system seems higher res on A330s than on A340s.
- Lufthansa: have not yet flown the new business class. Try to avoid A380s as you can be at the back of the upper deck and have hundreds of people off the plane in front of you in the immigration queue. The A380 arrives at SFO at rush hour. Had to take it twice as it was cheapest business fare, but best avoided. 90 to 120 min in immigration queue at that time. A340 from SFO via Munich better for queues, though video system seems lower res than on A380.
- Air France 777: simple seat adjustments. Slight angle, but really good sleep nonetheless, possibly because it is the last flight from SFO to Europe, leaving at something like 21:25. Simple video system.
- KLM (747): least comfortable. Seat has considerable angle so I seem to slide down while trying to sleep. Simple video wiith low resolution. As others have noted, KLM due to start to change these seats.
Momo
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seat design compromise
It is almost impossible to design a seat that offer 100% horizontal sleep, and then a conforatble seat position to eat.
I dislike Emirates first class pobs,a nd the seat is not to my taste,Ok mini bar is nice,and vastTVscrean is nice, but I am after a good seat.
In general the QR 340 seat is best, the B777 is OK, but I like the Bus companion seat, but disliked the partition.
Mext week back to MNL from DOH and for value for money I use Econ, last fewrows, and the Qatar Pearl lounge. Value for money perfect.
I am a great believer in QR, much better than EK. If going eastbound, I am happy to accept the ground time in DOH, and have a very nice lounge experience.Then sleep on flight.
Only problem with ECON from LHR with QR is NO lounge, in T4........
Bummer.
glf
I dislike Emirates first class pobs,a nd the seat is not to my taste,Ok mini bar is nice,and vastTVscrean is nice, but I am after a good seat.
In general the QR 340 seat is best, the B777 is OK, but I like the Bus companion seat, but disliked the partition.
Mext week back to MNL from DOH and for value for money I use Econ, last fewrows, and the Qatar Pearl lounge. Value for money perfect.
I am a great believer in QR, much better than EK. If going eastbound, I am happy to accept the ground time in DOH, and have a very nice lounge experience.Then sleep on flight.
Only problem with ECON from LHR with QR is NO lounge, in T4........
Bummer.
glf