Air France tips?
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Just out of curiosity, what are the passenger rights / airline obligations concerning missed connections if, say, an airline does not provide adequate time between connections, especially if it's all on the same airline? After all, it is the airline that assigns these connections. Passengers do not select individual flight segments.
Update: Answering my own question, I found this document from the London-based Air Transport Users Council:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...tions%2520.pdf
In it, it states:
and then concludes by saying:
So I guess the take-away is that if you are concerned about connections, choose through tickets using two different IATA airlines. Then you have the best chance of being taken care of properly if you miss a connection.
This raises another question in my mind. What if you in fact book a through ticket on two "different" airlines only to find out they are code shared and both operated by only one of them. Does the two airline rule still apply?
Update: Answering my own question, I found this document from the London-based Air Transport Users Council:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...tions%2520.pdf
In it, it states:
The new rules under Regulation EC 261/2004 have been good news for passengers because they protect them from being out of pocket following a cancellation or delay to their flight or if they are denied boarding. But they do not generally protect them from expenses that they might incur if they miss their connection.
Under an International Air Transport Association (IATA) Resolution, that is binding on member airlines (most network carriers), the “forwarding air carrier” should provide refreshments and hotel accommodation to passengers who miss their connection when connecting from one IATA airline to another.
But the Resolution does not apply if passengers are connecting between two flights of the same airline. Then, it is up to the airline whether it arranges and pays for meals and hotel accommodation.
Under an International Air Transport Association (IATA) Resolution, that is binding on member airlines (most network carriers), the “forwarding air carrier” should provide refreshments and hotel accommodation to passengers who miss their connection when connecting from one IATA airline to another.
But the Resolution does not apply if passengers are connecting between two flights of the same airline. Then, it is up to the airline whether it arranges and pays for meals and hotel accommodation.
...advising passengers with through tickets about what they should expect if they miss their connection is less easy. For connections from one IATA airline to another, passengers should expect to be rebooked onto the next available flight and be offered assistance while they wait. For connections between two flights of the same airline, it is hard to know what to expect because airlines generally don’t commit their policies to print.
We have recently surveyed a number of airlines about their policies on missed connections. Most of the airlines we talked to said that they would usually provide assistance to passengers connecting between two of their flights. But they did not include this in their Conditions of Carriage.
We have recently surveyed a number of airlines about their policies on missed connections. Most of the airlines we talked to said that they would usually provide assistance to passengers connecting between two of their flights. But they did not include this in their Conditions of Carriage.
This raises another question in my mind. What if you in fact book a through ticket on two "different" airlines only to find out they are code shared and both operated by only one of them. Does the two airline rule still apply?
Last edited by Mark in CA; 8th Jun 2012 at 07:54.
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Mark,
Your contract is first with the airline that issued your ticket, and second with the airline shown on the ticket regardless of the operating airline.
In other words the issuing carrier's Conditions of Carriage apply to things such as ticket issuance, refunds, etc. while the ticketed carrier's CoC apply to things such as missed connections, baggage allowance and liability, etc.
The operating carrier, if different from the ticketed carrier, has a contract with the the ticketed carrier not with the passenger.
Edited to add:
IATA Resolutions are no longer binding - most members apply the provisions but this is at their discretion.
Don't forget that the contracting airline has an obligation to fulfil its core part of the contract. Getting you from your origin to your destination. Although not stated in writing (as the AUC observes) this has always been held up by the courts, and that includes covering reasonable expenses you might incur.
IATA fares are not cheap. In fact they are embarrassingly expensive. The two airlines could have a joint fare at a more reasonable level, but I doubt you would find this on-line.
And sadly the AUC is no longer in business. The powers that be in the UK decided that a small group of industry experts were too old fashioned and have transferred their responsibilities to a bunch of mandarins who know nothing about the business, but who are dedicated to protecting passenger rights, whatever that is.
Your contract is first with the airline that issued your ticket, and second with the airline shown on the ticket regardless of the operating airline.
In other words the issuing carrier's Conditions of Carriage apply to things such as ticket issuance, refunds, etc. while the ticketed carrier's CoC apply to things such as missed connections, baggage allowance and liability, etc.
The operating carrier, if different from the ticketed carrier, has a contract with the the ticketed carrier not with the passenger.
Edited to add:
IATA Resolutions are no longer binding - most members apply the provisions but this is at their discretion.
Don't forget that the contracting airline has an obligation to fulfil its core part of the contract. Getting you from your origin to your destination. Although not stated in writing (as the AUC observes) this has always been held up by the courts, and that includes covering reasonable expenses you might incur.
IATA fares are not cheap. In fact they are embarrassingly expensive. The two airlines could have a joint fare at a more reasonable level, but I doubt you would find this on-line.
And sadly the AUC is no longer in business. The powers that be in the UK decided that a small group of industry experts were too old fashioned and have transferred their responsibilities to a bunch of mandarins who know nothing about the business, but who are dedicated to protecting passenger rights, whatever that is.
Last edited by ExXB; 8th Jun 2012 at 09:30. Reason: Add some additional comments
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Paris -- Charles de Gaulle Airport
CDG got the "worst airport" award two years running from SleepingInAirports.net, but this year site owner Donna McSherry decided to give it a break, in part because now "the homeless population was being segregated" to "the Third World inspired Terminal 3." Big takeaway here: If you're worrying about how to distribute your homeless population, you're one of the worst major airports.
De Gaulle is a huge airport where many people have to transfer, but it's an awful airport to change planes in; many flights require a change between CDG's various scattered terminal buildings, which are connected primarily by slow, confusing shuttle buses. Changing planes here is tiring, irritating, and sometimes a little terrifying.
This being Paris, there is also usually a strike on.
CDG got the "worst airport" award two years running from SleepingInAirports.net, but this year site owner Donna McSherry decided to give it a break, in part because now "the homeless population was being segregated" to "the Third World inspired Terminal 3." Big takeaway here: If you're worrying about how to distribute your homeless population, you're one of the worst major airports.
De Gaulle is a huge airport where many people have to transfer, but it's an awful airport to change planes in; many flights require a change between CDG's various scattered terminal buildings, which are connected primarily by slow, confusing shuttle buses. Changing planes here is tiring, irritating, and sometimes a little terrifying.
This being Paris, there is also usually a strike on.
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This has all been very enlightening. I don't usually worry about connections. I seem to have very good travel karma, and have never experienced an excessive delay because of a transfer.
One time in Chicago, my inbound flight was held on the tarmac for 45 minutes, causing me to miss my connection. As it was getting pretty late, the airline (United) told me there were no more flights and gave me a hotel voucher, and I was literally on my way out of the terminal when I heard a PA announcement for another United flight in final boarding for my destination. I ran like crazy to the gate, which had already closed when I got there, but as the plane was still sitting there, they opened the gate for me to get on. It turned out to be an extremely late flight from earlier in the day that for some reason had not shown up on the computer system, and I flew home on a virtually empty 747 that got me home only an hour later than originally scheduled.
Fortunately, this upcoming trip is not time critical. No meetings to attend. I'm just visiting my home in the Bay Area for a few weeks to take care of a few things and spend some time with friends. If I arrive a day late, it's no big deal. Ditto on the return trip.
Last time I experienced a serious delay, my flight got into SFO so late that there were no longer any trains running to take me home from the airport. Instead, I wound up getting a ride from my seatmate, whose sister was picking him up and lived only a mile from me. The seatmate turned out to be the principle oboist of the Philadelphia Orchestra.
Life is an adventure!
One time in Chicago, my inbound flight was held on the tarmac for 45 minutes, causing me to miss my connection. As it was getting pretty late, the airline (United) told me there were no more flights and gave me a hotel voucher, and I was literally on my way out of the terminal when I heard a PA announcement for another United flight in final boarding for my destination. I ran like crazy to the gate, which had already closed when I got there, but as the plane was still sitting there, they opened the gate for me to get on. It turned out to be an extremely late flight from earlier in the day that for some reason had not shown up on the computer system, and I flew home on a virtually empty 747 that got me home only an hour later than originally scheduled.
Fortunately, this upcoming trip is not time critical. No meetings to attend. I'm just visiting my home in the Bay Area for a few weeks to take care of a few things and spend some time with friends. If I arrive a day late, it's no big deal. Ditto on the return trip.
Last time I experienced a serious delay, my flight got into SFO so late that there were no longer any trains running to take me home from the airport. Instead, I wound up getting a ride from my seatmate, whose sister was picking him up and lived only a mile from me. The seatmate turned out to be the principle oboist of the Philadelphia Orchestra.
Life is an adventure!
Last edited by Mark in CA; 9th Jun 2012 at 12:22.
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I have flown MAN-TLV-CDG with the attendant increased security and a 45 minute connection. No problems, no lost luggage and very nice airport (although I only used one or possibly two terminals in the 2E/2F range. Connection was easy.
That's a very roundabout way of getting to Paris.
Last edited by Chuchinchow; 11th Jun 2012 at 11:32.
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Well, my connection at CDG this past Friday went very well, despite the warnings from others here. My BUD to CDG flight was right on time, but instead of a gate, we parked on the ramp and had to be bused into Terminal 2D. It took me 45 minutes to make the journey to Terminal 2E, learn which gate I had to get to, figure out where I had to go within 2E to get to my gate and go through passport control and security. Turned out my connecting flight to SFO was delayed by 45 minutes, but I would have made it in time even if it wasn't.
The irony is that I usually take Lufthansa to SFO through FRA, but it's a good thing I took Air France this time because the LH flight attendants happened to go on strike the day I traveled, and those LH flights flight were cancelled.
The irony is that I usually take Lufthansa to SFO through FRA, but it's a good thing I took Air France this time because the LH flight attendants happened to go on strike the day I traveled, and those LH flights flight were cancelled.
Last edited by Mark in CA; 3rd Sep 2012 at 01:29.
