Airline pricing, I don't get it
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Airline pricing, I don't get it
Sorry if this has been discussed before.
I want to travel LHR>PHL in October
USair want £511 direct on the date I want...
However, I have found that LHR > EWR would cost only £460 via PHL on the same transatlantic aircraft on the same date/time as the £511 flight.
What if i was to book the LHR>EWR and not get on the 2nd leg ? I take it my ticket will be voided ?
How is this possible how can it be cheaper to fly 2 legs than 1 ?
Thanks
I want to travel LHR>PHL in October
USair want £511 direct on the date I want...
However, I have found that LHR > EWR would cost only £460 via PHL on the same transatlantic aircraft on the same date/time as the £511 flight.
What if i was to book the LHR>EWR and not get on the 2nd leg ? I take it my ticket will be voided ?
How is this possible how can it be cheaper to fly 2 legs than 1 ?
Thanks
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Questions been asked and answered many times before - a search should give you some interesting reading.
However the $0.99 version is that pricing is NOT cost plus reasonable profit. The perfect price is the price that will sell.
Each market to US (LHR-EWR and LHR-PHL in your example) is independent. In pricing EWR, which they don't fly non-stop, they need to put their price in relation to what the competitors are doing in the same market. BA and CO/UA both serve this non-stop and a number of other carriers do so one-stop. Realistically to price a one-stop market you have to be lower than the non-stop carriers and at or around the price of the one-stoppers. So US calculates that at this point in time the right price LHR-EWR via PHL should be £460.
They do a similar analysis on the LHR-PHL market, looking at the prices of both their non-stop competitor and all the one-stoppers. I would guess that while they can be higher than the one-stoppers they probably can't be higher than BA. The right price for them now is £511.
If they priced EWR via PHL at (at least) £511 they wouldn't get many, if any, sales. Their revenue management people will decide if it's better to get £460 (split over two flights) or nothing and have the seats go empty.
Hope this helps.
Edited to add: Noticed I didn't answer your other question.
Assuming you are travelling return I would NOT recommend that you miss an intermediate flight. Most airlines will cancel the remaining flights on your booking. If you are going only one way, and are not checking a bag, you might be able to get away with it. But check US's conditions of carriage - it will tell you what their policy is on this.
However the $0.99 version is that pricing is NOT cost plus reasonable profit. The perfect price is the price that will sell.
Each market to US (LHR-EWR and LHR-PHL in your example) is independent. In pricing EWR, which they don't fly non-stop, they need to put their price in relation to what the competitors are doing in the same market. BA and CO/UA both serve this non-stop and a number of other carriers do so one-stop. Realistically to price a one-stop market you have to be lower than the non-stop carriers and at or around the price of the one-stoppers. So US calculates that at this point in time the right price LHR-EWR via PHL should be £460.
They do a similar analysis on the LHR-PHL market, looking at the prices of both their non-stop competitor and all the one-stoppers. I would guess that while they can be higher than the one-stoppers they probably can't be higher than BA. The right price for them now is £511.
If they priced EWR via PHL at (at least) £511 they wouldn't get many, if any, sales. Their revenue management people will decide if it's better to get £460 (split over two flights) or nothing and have the seats go empty.
Hope this helps.
Edited to add: Noticed I didn't answer your other question.
Assuming you are travelling return I would NOT recommend that you miss an intermediate flight. Most airlines will cancel the remaining flights on your booking. If you are going only one way, and are not checking a bag, you might be able to get away with it. But check US's conditions of carriage - it will tell you what their policy is on this.
Paxing All Over The World
Agreed, good reply. The other part of the pricing system is that: You were quoted $460 for the one-stop route today. But tomorrow, you might be quoted $465 or $450. There are limits as to how low they will go but the price may change a lot - or not!
You are correct that, if you take the dog-leg ticket and jump off at PHL, you will have broken your contract with them and the rest of the ticket will evaporate. Not worth it.
You are correct that, if you take the dog-leg ticket and jump off at PHL, you will have broken your contract with them and the rest of the ticket will evaporate. Not worth it.
Last edited by PAXboy; 28th Jan 2012 at 01:41.
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Airline prices also vary greatly with time (not in your question but just adding). From my experience prices are higher when it's the season for flying — i.e. during summer.
Paxing All Over The World
Hi poke53281, meant to say: Welcome to the forum. 
In your thread title is the answer:
That's the whole point - you are not supposed to understand and, if you DO, they will change the system.
There are many versions of this explanation floating around but here is one at random: Buying Paint Airline Style
In your thread title is the answer:
Airline pricing, I don't get it
That's the whole point - you are not supposed to understand and, if you DO, they will change the system.
There are many versions of this explanation floating around but here is one at random: Buying Paint Airline Style
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Can I add a layer of complication in here?
NYC-PHL is a very short sector, and iirc, CO now code share with Amtrak. EWR has its own station, but in their infinite wisdowm, Amtrak's fasters Acela trains don't stop there.
However, if you had a LHR-EWR-ZFV routing, where 30th St station was the final destination, you may be priced for the 'inconvenience' of an indirect routing, whilst the flight itself is still direct. If you actually wanted NYC, could you then bin the ral sector - after all, booking systems are completely different, and they don't take your luggage.
Just a thought, not something I'v ever really got behind the small print on.
NYC-PHL is a very short sector, and iirc, CO now code share with Amtrak. EWR has its own station, but in their infinite wisdowm, Amtrak's fasters Acela trains don't stop there.
However, if you had a LHR-EWR-ZFV routing, where 30th St station was the final destination, you may be priced for the 'inconvenience' of an indirect routing, whilst the flight itself is still direct. If you actually wanted NYC, could you then bin the ral sector - after all, booking systems are completely different, and they don't take your luggage.
Just a thought, not something I'v ever really got behind the small print on.
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Airline pricing..
I heard that some airlines plant a thing called a 'large saved object' (hope that is the correct name) like a cookie, and use it to
store your details. This enables them to quote you a higher
price when you return. I have a plugin which deletes these things, and as far as I could check the story is true.
Also some airlines will give you a higher price depending on
where in the world you seem to come from. That case occurred
to me in the past, ie local currency price changes to the same
number in ££££'s
john
store your details. This enables them to quote you a higher
price when you return. I have a plugin which deletes these things, and as far as I could check the story is true.
Also some airlines will give you a higher price depending on
where in the world you seem to come from. That case occurred
to me in the past, ie local currency price changes to the same
number in ££££'s
john
Paxing All Over The World
esa-aardvark I have heard the rumour about your first point but have yet to hear 100% confirmation.
Your second point is undoubtedly true and I have seen that myself. It is the same problem that computer software priced in USD can become the same number but with GBP in front of it.
Your second point is undoubtedly true and I have seen that myself. It is the same problem that computer software priced in USD can become the same number but with GBP in front of it.
I have heard also that constantly checking a fare for a specific flight, pushes the cost up, since the reservation system considers there is a large demand for that flight.
I am curious to know if it is true.
Rwy in Sight
I am curious to know if it is true.
Rwy in Sight
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The suggestion that prices could differ based on your place of residence - this is contrary to European law (for sales in any EU country). A large German airline with a big bird on its tail was warned by the Commission for doing something like this (actually prohibiting sale of some low fare categories outside of the country of origin, which resulted in higher prices). The Commission made sure all other EU airlines were aware of this.
This is precisely the reason why LOCOs do so well. No stupid rules (well there are stupid rules not as illogical as full service airlines)!
I wonder what would happen if EasyJet or Ryanair started selling through tickets with a change at one of their European hubs? That would drive several other midsize airlines out of business.
I wonder what would happen if EasyJet or Ryanair started selling through tickets with a change at one of their European hubs? That would drive several other midsize airlines out of business.
Paxing All Over The World
From the start of the 1990s onwards, friends of mine in the US (DTW-LHR) found their flights consistently cheaper than the reverse. That was buying with BA through agencies and then online.
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On a related note, if anybody can advise...
I have to travel MUC-JFK and return JFK-LHR later this year. I booked a return on BA, MUC-JFK-MUC with the intention of not flying the last sector LHR-MUC. (The fare BA were asking for MUC-JFK-LHR was nearly double...) I'll most likely travel with hand luggage only, so in theory there's nothing to stop me walking out of T5 on the return, but is it a good idea? Does anybody know if I'll have my miles or TPs deducted, or perhaps the previously mentioned "large saved object" will come back to bite me next time I book with BA?
It seems like a waste of time to complete the itinerary and book a one way MUC-LHR. But technically, I suppose I'll be breach of contract if I don't..?
I have to travel MUC-JFK and return JFK-LHR later this year. I booked a return on BA, MUC-JFK-MUC with the intention of not flying the last sector LHR-MUC. (The fare BA were asking for MUC-JFK-LHR was nearly double...) I'll most likely travel with hand luggage only, so in theory there's nothing to stop me walking out of T5 on the return, but is it a good idea? Does anybody know if I'll have my miles or TPs deducted, or perhaps the previously mentioned "large saved object" will come back to bite me next time I book with BA?
It seems like a waste of time to complete the itinerary and book a one way MUC-LHR. But technically, I suppose I'll be breach of contract if I don't..?
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If one doesn't fly the last leg there's little an airline can do about it. There are are a number of valid reasons why this could happen such as one suddenly feeling unwell and deciding not to take an onward flight. I often used to book return long haul Business Class with KLM from BRU via AMS because it was considerably cheaper than departing from The Netherlands. On the return I'd terminate my trip in AMS in order to get home much quicker. This even worked with checked baggage. On arrival at AMS I would go to the transfer desk and state that I was unable to continue my trip and could they off load my bag in AMS. Never had a problem.
You are not breaking any contract whatsoever if you choose to forfeit your last sector due to "unexpected" circustances. What you can't do is not show for any leg before the last one or you will find that subsequent legs have been cancelled as per the fare rules.
You are not breaking any contract whatsoever if you choose to forfeit your last sector due to "unexpected" circustances. What you can't do is not show for any leg before the last one or you will find that subsequent legs have been cancelled as per the fare rules.
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One can book an "open leg" ticket with many airlines for half of the sum of the two return fares... An open leg is a flying from place A on one continent to B on another, and then flying from C on the same continent as B back to A. Or a ticket from A to B (on another continent) and back to D (on A's continent.) Certainly worth to investigate if you're planning to do some ground travel.
Another issue with online reservation systems is that a fare will be held for someone from the moment a website makes a formal offer till the payment is done... Some people bail out of that process and that could mean that some low-priced seats reenter the pool. If they were the last available for that fare it will mean that visible quotes showed higher fares in the mean time. (It's also possible that a "yield manager" sees weak sales and throws a dozen of bargain seats in the market.)
Yes, Airline pricing is incomprehensible.... confusing the competition seems important!
Another issue with online reservation systems is that a fare will be held for someone from the moment a website makes a formal offer till the payment is done... Some people bail out of that process and that could mean that some low-priced seats reenter the pool. If they were the last available for that fare it will mean that visible quotes showed higher fares in the mean time. (It's also possible that a "yield manager" sees weak sales and throws a dozen of bargain seats in the market.)
Yes, Airline pricing is incomprehensible.... confusing the competition seems important!
I have to travel MUC-JFK and return JFK-LHR later this year. I booked a return on BA, MUC-JFK-MUC with the intention of not flying the last sector LHR-MUC. (The fare BA were asking for MUC-JFK-LHR was nearly double...)
....But technically, I suppose I'll be breach of contract if I don't..?
....But technically, I suppose I'll be breach of contract if I don't..?
You won't be in breach of contract because in the (very few) cases which have come into legal contention, the Unfair Contract Terms Act has been applied and such contract "terms" have been held to be a nonsense and set aside.
Paxing All Over The World
'Open leg' tickets A-B-C, rather than A-B-A are also known as 'Open jaws' routing.
Irrespective of the benefits to the pax, one of the benefits of the Internet - to the cariers - is that they now know what everybody else is charging! Their systems can automatically interrogate (or humans can look) what their competitors are charging on the same, or related routes.
If you see that the other carrier on the same route, say, has put their price up by £10 or £100 do you:-
Irrespective of the benefits to the pax, one of the benefits of the Internet - to the cariers - is that they now know what everybody else is charging! Their systems can automatically interrogate (or humans can look) what their competitors are charging on the same, or related routes.
If you see that the other carrier on the same route, say, has put their price up by £10 or £100 do you:-
- Hold your price down to catch more bookings
- Put your price up to catch more money