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go around

Old 7th Dec 2011, 15:17
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Question go around

Flew from Belfast 16 november to malaga flight EI048
Approached AGP from the med and over golf course at runway-so quite low but had to go around.
Pilot didn't give any info.
Anybody got any info- just curious?
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Old 7th Dec 2011, 16:10
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pproached AGP from the med and over golf course at runway-so quite low but had to go around.
A mulligan, no doubt.
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Old 7th Dec 2011, 16:44
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How can you deduce the pilots name from that?
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Old 7th Dec 2011, 18:42
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A Mulligan, in a game, happens when a player gets a second chance to perform a certain move or action; usually due to lack of skill or bitter luck. A "Do-Over".
Obscure golf joke reference.
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 07:49
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Just FYI - A Go-Around involves a high workload for your Flight Crew, often meaning that there is not time to make a PA: Most airlines recognise this, and a short, generic PA announcement can be made by the Senior FA to dispel alarm. It seems a pity that this does not appear to have happened in this instance.
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 08:55
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Go-arounds are a fact of life. The reasons are too numerous to list and speculation in this case is pointless. However, I will stick my neck out on this one. A good flight crew performs a go-around and has another go instead of putting up with something which may make landing unsafe. The next bit is the initial part of the manoeuvre itself. Most aircraft, especially twins, go up like a rocket on a go-around as it's usually performed with full power (to start with, anyway). So you have to keep your wits about you. And I'm afraid speaking to passengers is the last thing on the list. To do so would have added more flight time because you would have to do this in a 'slack' period which would have meant creating a time buffer where it would have been possible for one person to fly and the other to speak. Being radar vectored at low altitude and setting an aircraft up for an approach is not the time you fly single pilot.

So you should feel happy that you were being flown by 'proper' pilots.
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 21:30
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Ag B......I smiled....
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 11:39
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Ag B - Brilliant

Fan11 -

In all seriousness though, I know workload up front is high but surely some reference at some point is possible, if not while airborne during taxi even?

Go-arounds are a fact of life () but not that common.

Still I guess it's a good opportunity to be condescending to PAX, hey PM.
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 21:00
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Still I guess it's a good opportunity to be condescending to PAX, hey PM.
L4key: I wouldn't describe my comments as condescending although I consider yours as sarcastic. I base my experience on being SLF at least twice a week. Most passengers consider a go-around is 1. Scary, 2. Dangerous, and 3. The sign that something has gone badly wrong. Too many demand that they should be told immediately what has happened, but that is not always possible. Now accepting that this site is full of professional pilots, you'll get comments from professional pilots who are un-constrained by the "market speak" pumped out by airline apologists who work in "Customer Care" departments. I stand by my words. Go-arounds are performed by 'proper' pilots who are not prepared to continue their current approach. Far too many continue with a crap approach.

And finally there may be an opportunity to tell the passengers what happened on the taxi in, provided of course there is enough time ...and the taxiing is not too complicated ...and the cabin crew are not doing their arrival PA etc. When you work your way to seat OA L4key, you can run things the way you want.
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 22:14
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From my experience pax generally don't tend to be overly worried about go arounds. A simple, well worded PA from the cabin crew would put those minds that might be concerned at ease.
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 22:25
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From my experience pax generally don't tend to be overly worried about go arounds
Hmmm disagree. I don't mind as I know the score but I can see the tension rise in the cabin. It's not a minor thing to Joe Public. I have had three, two on the same flight on a heavy RJ100 EDI-LCY on a borderline tailwind and going into Gatters on easyJet when the aircraft ahead was slow in clearing. Cue TOGA and PA from the Cabin Crew with the tone set to "We're all about to hit the ground in a ****ing fireball". The eventual PA from the Flight Deck was much more modulated....
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 22:42
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Here's an interesting one from Bilbao airport yesterday. There's a short advert to start with.


Cientos de afectados en Loiu y Hondarribia. diariovasco.com
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Old 18th Dec 2011, 08:36
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Quote:
From my experience pax generally don't tend to be overly worried about go arounds.

Sorry, I know you say from your experience but overall that statement is absolute nonsense.
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Old 18th Dec 2011, 13:01
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I have been paxing for 46 years and have never experienced a go-round BUT, I can be darn sure that a lot of pax will be worried.

Yes, I have seen some who have slept all the way though descent and only woken at touchdown, oblivious to all. But I have also seen the nervous ones who grip the arm rest and are watching everything.

I fully understand the process and, if it happened, would not be disturbed but I reckon more than 50% of pax would be. In this forum we have often discussed this topic and we know that the flight crew cannot possibly talk to us. However, I do think that carriers should have an automatic message ready that can be triggered by the senior cabin staff member. It can be neutral but it would be something.

On a lighter note. More than 40 years ago, my grandmother was leaving JNB for LHR in a VC-10. We watched from the balcony and saw a (low speed) RTO. They returned to the stand for a short while and then departed normally. In a letter some weeks later, replying to my mother's anxious enquiry, my grandmother replied, "I thought they always did that." Not many people would say that today.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 01:22
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Honestly guys, in all the go-arounds I have had (i'm crew), including one where one set of wheels touched down, passengers are generally ok. By ok I mean there aren't anyone visibly upset or crying etc etc. Remember also that very few go-arounds are abrasive and the application of engine power can actually be pretty gentle, ditto for the pitch of the aircraft. It's surprising how many people actually know what the score is and a reassuring PA done immediately by the cabin crew does the job. I usually joke that they are getting more for their money and that does the trick with those who might be a tad nervous.

But the way some of the describe things makes it sound like people are grippings armrests, praying and crying in the cabin and 99% of the time it is nothing like that. Indeed, I find the actual take off and light turbulence a lot more extreme than most go arounds.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 11:04
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Some years ago inbound to ATL (Delta B727) we broke off the approach at about 4 miles with an immediate left turn and (unusually for ATL I thought) a 360 (at roughly 1500/1800ft) back on approach for landing. Despite the manoeuvre and - I would have thought - a fairly busy FD, the Captain came on the PA briefly explaining what and why. I'd guessed what had happened but I'm sure that his PA helped to put many at ease that there wasn't anything more untoward going on. I shall always remember that low level orbit in a B727. Quite different to doing it in a Cessna 152.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 11:46
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Some captain's have very little interest in what goes on behind them at anytime and wouldnt trouble themselves to make a useful PA. Personally I think as a matter of courtesy a PA from the flight deck should be made. How anyone can say that passengers are not nervous if the aircraft makes a GA is difficult to understand. Many passengers are very nervous of flying and/or it may be their first flight. I just timed myself on the PA I would make and it took 20 seconds. If a professional public transport pilot cannot make a 20 second PA while posistioning from a GA he is probably not suitable for command. I had a thrust reverser partially deploy on TO and still managed to make a PA during our very brief circuit to land.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 12:31
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If a professional public transport pilot cannot make a 20 second PA while posistioning from a GA he is probably not suitable for command.
Nominee for stupid comment of the week!

Try that at Innsbruck or Salzberg or.....etc.

Most professional pilots have a great deal of interest in what goes on behind them. However the priority is as always to safely fly the aircraft and then communicate a game plan with ATC. Once time permits, a reassuring PA to the passengers can be delivered, which should be far more informative than something rushed or hurried into a constrained time slot.

Many airlines now have a set PA from the cabin crew in the event of a go-around that basically confirms the regularity of the procedure and notifies the passengers that the captain will give further details as time permits.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 12:32
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I never said nobody is ever nervous but I think people here are over dramatising a situation from the passengers point of view. I have never seen anyone visibly upset or panicked by a go around. I'm not saying it never happens but it doesn't happen as much as some of you would have us believe. I'd say far more passengers particularly enjoy the experience than those who are freaked out.

As for a PA from the flight deck, if they get time then great a PA should be great. If not the PA from the cabin crew explaining that the aircraft is discontinuing the approach and that it happens from time to time, should be enough.

I'm cabin crew so I'm sure I don't have to remind you of the three fundamental priorities: aviate, navigate, communicate. Considering go arounds can be caused by situations that add to the workload and stress on the flight deck, do we really need a PA from the flight crew in these scenarios or do we rather they focus on the first two priorities? I know which I would prefer.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 13:19
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Some captain's have very little interest in what goes on behind them at anytime and wouldnt trouble themselves to make a useful PA.


All the Captain's I have flown with as CC on public transport and presumably those as SLF as well have a great deal of interest in what goes on all around them Pull what.

In the queue behind your seat as pax is another aircraft on approach. Go around decisions are never made lightly.

The PA that could be made may well take only 20 seconds.......in that time the PF could have put that plane into the side of a mountain because the other guy is distracted talking to you.

I know what I would rather the guys at the pointy end are doing at that point......

My PA as a CC takes a bit longer than 20 seconds. I use our standard but also tailor it based on what I see re reactions around me and what if anything I know at that point.

I've never known anyone not be reassured by this.
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