BASSA Branch Secretary ET Minutes Now in Public Domain
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This is an order to Unite to release contact details of certain posters to the branch forum. I believe that Unite have said they cannot/do not have details to release. Rumour is that the forum database was wiped/lost/corrupted. It would appear that Unite are opposing the appointment of a suitably qualified IT engineer to try to recover lost information. The truth of this has yet to be verified.
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Seems the judgement is to be made tomorrow:
COURT 11
Before HIS HONOUR JUDGE PARKES QC
(sitting as a Judge of the High Court)
Thursday, 26th January 2012
At half past 10
FOR JUDGMENT
APPLICATION NOTICE
IHQ/11/0894 Patel v Unite
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LD
thank you for that. Interesting.
For a very boring reason, at one stage in my life I had a positively vetted security clearance. I was told during the process of obtaining that clearance that even if stuff I typed on my pc was cleaned/overwritten to some obscure MoD standard, someone else would come along who could read it.
thank you for that. Interesting.
For a very boring reason, at one stage in my life I had a positively vetted security clearance. I was told during the process of obtaining that clearance that even if stuff I typed on my pc was cleaned/overwritten to some obscure MoD standard, someone else would come along who could read it.
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Interesting judgement. An unbiased view would be that the judge is giving Unite enough rope to hang themselves by. I can't see Unite putting up a very creditable opposition to an IT specialist proposed by the plaintiff. Reading the judgement the union doesn't seem to have an enormous amount of technical knowledge and is in no position to argue the toss on an individual's credentials. The expert witness for the plaintiff seems to be under no illusions about the ability to unearth the relevant data,
The piece about individuals swapping userids sounds like so much hogwash. I can't help but wonder if this is part of a concerted attempt to avoid being held responsible in court. The key will be the IP addresses of the offenders. That provides traceability to physical addresses. Of course there is still the 'it wasn't me, it was my brother' defence that was put up at one of the Employment Tribunals. I think I begin to hear a certain tonsil clearing exercise being made by a lady of ample proportions.
The piece about individuals swapping userids sounds like so much hogwash. I can't help but wonder if this is part of a concerted attempt to avoid being held responsible in court. The key will be the IP addresses of the offenders. That provides traceability to physical addresses. Of course there is still the 'it wasn't me, it was my brother' defence that was put up at one of the Employment Tribunals. I think I begin to hear a certain tonsil clearing exercise being made by a lady of ample proportions.
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I assume it would be quite usual for Crew to live together. Most forums, including pprune, place a cookie on the computer enabling the manual logon & password routine to be avoided each time the forum is accessed. So the IP address may tell only part of the story.
It could be a case similar to original car speed camera fines, whereby companies (including Manchester United/Sir Alex Fergusson I recall) and families avoided fines and points as they claimed they could not identify who was driving the car at the time. Nowadays the cameras photograph the driver.
It could be a case similar to original car speed camera fines, whereby companies (including Manchester United/Sir Alex Fergusson I recall) and families avoided fines and points as they claimed they could not identify who was driving the car at the time. Nowadays the cameras photograph the driver.
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You'd need more than one BASSA member to have access to any specific IP address to play that particular defence. Given that it's likely the information is to be used to launch a grievance against the individuals with BA, a whole list of usernames with their home address, plus a reasonably detailed list of their global whereabouts on each occasion of posting, married with BA's historical roster data, should narrow it down to a particular individual fairly quickly.
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Can we all be a little careful of speculating what might happen here. We don't want this thread closed down do we. Also PLEASE if the trolls come, just ignore them. The info on the 13 names will be found by the forensic scientists within a few weeks. Let's all be patient. Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but we've all seen how these posts can quickly get out of control. Im not saying dont post, just be careful what we put. Well done to the mods. I'm sure they will sort out any troublemakers quickly. I can wait a little longer for the truth to come out.
Finally thankyou for all the links
Finally thankyou for all the links
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Without commenting on the outcome of Mr Holley's case, I have two observations:
Firstly, the whole, end-to-end procedure seems excessively rigorous to the extent that many employers & their managers would be dissuaded in taking action against an employee for serious misconduct. Common sense seems to go out of the window only to profit the legal profession.
Secondly, I find it bizarre that an employee can be granted time off for "trade union duties" when that work involves administrative tasks such as web site maintenance, making payments and updating lists. Surely, for such tasks, the trade union should employ its own staff and pay their wages. The employer's trade union rep could then concentrate on representing the members in disputes. With this approach, Mr Holley would not have needed so much time away from his airline duties. I am really surprised that BA is prepared to pay for a guy who effectively has a second job!
Firstly, the whole, end-to-end procedure seems excessively rigorous to the extent that many employers & their managers would be dissuaded in taking action against an employee for serious misconduct. Common sense seems to go out of the window only to profit the legal profession.
Secondly, I find it bizarre that an employee can be granted time off for "trade union duties" when that work involves administrative tasks such as web site maintenance, making payments and updating lists. Surely, for such tasks, the trade union should employ its own staff and pay their wages. The employer's trade union rep could then concentrate on representing the members in disputes. With this approach, Mr Holley would not have needed so much time away from his airline duties. I am really surprised that BA is prepared to pay for a guy who effectively has a second job!
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Totally agree with the previous poster regarding litigation. the legal profession is the only profession where it actually pays you to 'get it wrong' the first, second - or even the third time. each appeal racks up costs and adds to the anguish/false hope of those involved. i was once privileged (?) to stand in the corridor of the high court when one (losing) barrister put his arm round his opponent's shoulder and uttered the persuasive argument 'now come on barry, it is christmas'.
perhaps the legal aid fund should be limited to the costs of the first tribunal or trial: an appeal is entirely at your own risk. it should concentrate minds wonderfully!
perhaps the legal aid fund should be limited to the costs of the first tribunal or trial: an appeal is entirely at your own risk. it should concentrate minds wonderfully!
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An interesting summary of the latest developments at the High Court:
Orders for inspection by IT experts: a new tool for the claimant's toolbox - International Law Office
Orders for inspection by IT experts: a new tool for the claimant's toolbox - International Law Office
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Fascinating commentary- thank you for that link LD12986. I particularly enjoyed the 'raised judicial eyebrow'!
If I were an insider and a betting man, I suspect I would want to have a flutter on the names that come to light if the search is successful. Shouldn't think laxative sales are very high in some areas at the moment.
It must raise potential problems in BA too with the prospect that they could be presented with strong evidence of wrongdoing meriting disciplinary action.
It is a strong reminder that bitter industrial disputes leave a lingering trail of recriminations behind them. ( That's not to say that they are never worth it.)
If I were an insider and a betting man, I suspect I would want to have a flutter on the names that come to light if the search is successful. Shouldn't think laxative sales are very high in some areas at the moment.
It must raise potential problems in BA too with the prospect that they could be presented with strong evidence of wrongdoing meriting disciplinary action.
It is a strong reminder that bitter industrial disputes leave a lingering trail of recriminations behind them. ( That's not to say that they are never worth it.)
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A slightly rhetorical question, but I've never quite understood how Unite put up with this from the BS of their biggest branch.
Anyway any news anyone on the forensic search? Wondered if anything had been posted on any legal sites?
Anyway any news anyone on the forensic search? Wondered if anything had been posted on any legal sites?
I've never quite understood how Unite put up with this from the BS of their biggest branch.
The bigger question to me is how and why many moderate, hardworking, and reasonable BASSA members put up with the BS. Then again he got, or was allowed to get, results, so maybe the majority were quite happy with the way they were being led, and simply decided it was easiest to ignore some of the more outlandish facets of his leadership style.
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£425m profit..................................
Redistribution of wealth complete
Redistribution of wealth complete
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Why should you be surprised?
Three main items of news in one day:
1. Two hostages killed during rescue attempt
2. Six British soldiers blown up by IED
3. Boris held hostage for £850/£1,000 per head by RMT
Wealth re-distribution indeed.
1. Two hostages killed during rescue attempt
2. Six British soldiers blown up by IED
3. Boris held hostage for £850/£1,000 per head by RMT
Wealth re-distribution indeed.
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£425m profit may seem a lot but as a profit margin it's still pretty thin and well below profits before the downturn. And if you look at cash (often viewed as a true measure of performance), that actually went down. Also, the long suffering shareholders are still not getting a dividend and have seen the share price nearly halved over the past year.
If you look at the vast number of airlines posting losses and the fact that almost every other legacy carrier in Europe is going through a major restructuring it's an absolute unequivocal vindication of the need for BA to go through permanent structural change.
If you look at the vast number of airlines posting losses and the fact that almost every other legacy carrier in Europe is going through a major restructuring it's an absolute unequivocal vindication of the need for BA to go through permanent structural change.
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I see from elsewhere the GMB now claim to have representation for cabin crew:
http://www.gmbcabincrew.co.uk
http://www.gmbcabincrew.co.uk