BA Cabin Crew

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I used to fly for BA and in those days thought the airline especially the CC were the best in the world (mid 80's-1991) A couple of years ago I was positioning back from a long duty tour (seven weeks) flying around the world with some very demanding pax. Tired and looking forward to getting home I boarded a BA flight at Miami for LHR, pleased to be flying with BA and starting to relax properly.

The aircraft routed up the eastern seaboard of the States and I was enjoying the view of so many palces I have vistited in America when a hostess poked me on the shoulder and said "Oi darling close that window blind" I told her I would close it when I was ready, she then broke into a rant about waking me to make me close it later. I complained to the purser, 4 witnesses backed me up and then I complained formally to BA.

I have heard nothing since, I now only travel BA in desperation and as far as possible we no longer position crews by BA, that woman has cost BA about 120 business class seats and 200 World Traveller seats per year.

[vctenderness]

Well look on the bright side at least she called you Darling

[Captain_Bling]

What I cannot comprehend despite reading every single post in this thread is HOW some (not all) cabin crew can lapse into being this rude.

I have observed, studied and even applied for the training they undergo to get the job in the first place and I can vouch for just how difficult it is. Any new graduate from such a program would be the model of customer service excellence even though they'd probably be quite nervous at first.

I think thats where the problem lies. CC settle into their roles, relax a bit, and then it become mundane. Slowly their lives and jobs become burdened with company bull***t and rude passengers (yes passengers are rude more often than crew) and as a result their passion for what they do wanes. It happens to people in all organisations where the company neglects its staff in favour of short term gain.

During BA's prosperity days I received superb service from them, after 9/11 and the paranoia that came in its wake they were jumped up, edgy and actually gave me a primary school telling off after i made a harmless joke at check in. I know what you're thinking, rest assured the joke really was harmless, only someone under massive duress would have taken it any other way.

I've applied for several cabin crew positions but am always turned down on account of the Pilot Training i've done. I would kill to have their jobs and yet the airline says 'no'. I've done mimimum wage jobs where I've endured hell from customers and management for next to nothing in return and always presented myself in a friendly way. I'm not particularly special, I just care about what I do - but that said, even I could lose it one day and snap if somebody pushed me hard enough.

And that raises the question of "just how much cr*p are crew forced to endure to turn them this way despite their training?" What kind of circumstances would force someone who cares to adopt a looking down their nose attitude as a coping strategy?

Its true that airlines would rather each passenger was paying £3000 a seat, economically it makes sense despite it being inviable. But its not true that they condone a way of thinking that rear passengers or any passengers for that matter are an inconvenience. They may say it as a joke, casual banter to ease tension, but its not something to be overheard or taken seriously. Any airline that preached such a philosophy would get straight minded staff like me walking out in disgust and that would cripple their reputation.

At the end of the day they are there to make money and lots of it. But to do this they need to serve and serve well. Which brings me round in a loop to my opening line - why don't quality control managers open their eyes and take note of the rudeness on display? Only 1 in 4 p*ssed off people make a formal complaint sure but feedback does reach the airlines. Virgin have a massive call centre in Swansea, Wales just to take such feedback.

The problem I think resides in human nature. Our behaviour mirrors our internal state of mind to a greater extent. Sure, you can hide your irritation behind a charming smile but for how long? Would you then take it out on someone who totally didn't deserve such as a passenger who just wanted another pillow or your kids when you got home? Companies need to have an ethos where staff can express their concerns freely, at appropriate times and not work constantly in fear of losing their jobs if management find out they dont like something. Take Emirates for example, they have an outstanding corporate culture and they score top notch for service not just business class. Coincidence? True, they're a tough company to get into but thats the whole point, only those who REALLY care can get in, as oppose to those who fake it. And once the good guys and girls are in, they STAY good or get even better with time. This is the blueprint for true customer service excellence. So why can't the majority of organisations be arsed to adopt it? I have no answer to that one - if anyone does please let me know.

[Curious Pax]

I'm surprised management culture hasn't come up so far in this thread. In a large organisation particularly, the culture of the company is set from the top 2-3 levels of management.

I also work for a large (non-aviation) organisation, and we have an arm that a few years ago was managed by an obnoxious know-it-all who managed by confrontation both within his own division and with other parts of the company, and this attitude was reflected all the way down the line of that division. After a while he moved to another post, and his successor was totally different - collaborative in every way. Within 3 months the character of interaction with that division had changed dramatically for the better, leading to a better atmosphere for all concerned. The productivity and right-first-time stats also improved, so people were working at least as hard, but the new culture was much more suited to better outcomes all round.

I didn't experience the before and after, but I understand that generally speaking this is the effect that Gordon Bethune had when he turned Continental around.

Perhaps we are loking in the wrong place for the source of the problem?

[Ancient Observer]

Curious and Bling.
There is a well-studied approach to sectors with high customer interaction. It is called the "service-profit" chain, and was in Harvard Business review some years ago. Google "service-profit chain"

The culture is critical, and the culture is set by the managers. (Google Glowinkowski for a better understanding of climate/culture). One very large oil Co can predict profitability of each unit by the management style of the manager at each business unit. One very large retailer only promotes managers based on the culture/climate that they create.
However, to get to putting this stuff right, you have to remove sources of poison first.
I guess that is why BA did what it did, in terms of taking on bassa. However, I still suspect that the middle managers at BA aren't yet getting it right at lhr. They appear to get it right at lgw and London City.

[Chuchinchow]

Perhaps someone will tell the sour-faced harridan who denied me a second can of Diet Coke yesterday morning (in CE!) when I travelled JER-LGW that her high-handed attitude did very little to endear either herself or her employers to me?

She even had the effrontery to chide me, "We have to think of the needs of others, you know".

[grassy]

I had a similar issue on the way back from SFO to LHR. Breakfast service came and i asked for cereal and if I could keep the fruit salad (note no bacon sarnie or muffins). I was told there may not be enough fruit salad to go around - all i got after that was 'dramatic ignoring' . This was in Business and the seat cost £5k.

[Matt101]

The last two posts of experienced rudeness are in my opinion not the fault of the crew but of BA and your fellow passengers. You can't have the cereal and the fruit salad because BA load enough breakfasts for one each, with maybe some extras, and on a trip to Jersey you couldn't have extra diet coke (yuck) because BA return cater the trip and there may not be enough for the return.

Now what should each Cabin Crew member do? Well really they should serve you what you ask for and deal with the potential problems later as professionally as possible, the trouble is these days people don't react well.

As ex BA crew I always recount the time in J during that god awful breakfast service that we ran out of the rancid Bacon rolls the pax in suits were always so fond of (personally I cant keep anything down at 4am), before landing. Now I like my Bacon but I don't think I've ever called anyone a self pleasuring son of a lady dog because I couldn't get one. However that day someone decided to call me such because quite clearly I wasn't "f****g sorry".

Now this was my one and only snapping point at BA but thankfully i went to the flight deck and snapped there (I asked the Captain if he would mind me swearing out the window at nothing in particular first). In with hate out with love and galley's aren't sound proof as I was taught.

This was one of many similar occurrences, and for some reason I went back for more, doing my best for each passenger that came along and trying to solve problems where company policy lead to a deficiency.

I did it for 3 years, but I imagine that after longer self preservation starts to kick in.

Is it easier to be rude and abrupt to one passenger who is nice or receive abuse from the next miserable SOB that you can't help however much you try? Now I know some of you will whine "but thats their job" blah blah blah. BS it is nobodies job to put up with a society which in the last decade has become increasingly obnoxious when things go wrong. Sadly all suffer.

That and there are some Wagon Dragon's who should have given up years ago.

If you don't agree ask yourself this, do you always do your job absolutely perfectly or sometimes, when you've gone 11 months since that last holiday, do you pick the route of least attrition?

Sorry for the rant but these threads p me off something rotten Name any large company and I will find you 500 people who love them and 500 who loathe them easily. for the loathsome, sorry those who loathe to then demonise part of that company to get it out their system is self indulgent in the extreme....... you didn't like it when I said society is becoming obnoxious did you?

fills wine glass again

[crewmeal]

Matt101

The last two posts of experienced rudeness are in my opinion not the fault of the crew but of BA and your fellow passengers.

How can you say that!!!! If a product is not available onboard or the crew have run out of cokes, surely the simple thing would be to suggest an alternative, NOT patronise passengers. Didn't they teach you that in Cranebank? They did when I was there in 1972.

If a passenger insults you for not providing what they want that is a different matter. I was taught there is always more than one way to skin a cat, and that line has proved so useful.

[grassy]

Firstly, the cereal is never offered and I dont suppose they have a box for every PAX. Secondly, his trolly had a number of un-eaten salads. He was just been bloody minded.

[GrahamO]

and on a trip to Jersey you couldn't have extra diet coke (yuck) because BA return cater the trip and there may not be enough for the return.

Plain illogical.

If someone asks for something, and you have it, then give it to them. If you hold onto stuff in case someone else wants it, you lose automatically on the return leg if someone does not ask for it. You have unnecessarily upset a client just because the airline couldn't get its planning right. And you don't get a consequential delighted customer on the return leg to offset it.

If OTOH, someone does want one on the return leg, and you're out it will be something for the statisticians to learn from overall when stocking up for future flights, and they will be grumpy but understand more than being told you are saving it for someone else who may want it more than them.

To hold back stuff from sale in case someone else wants to buy it later is just plain old silly. Imagine if they did that to you at a checkout at a supermarket !

[Matt101]

Nice to see you all read the post in it's entirety

[Matt101]

Originally Posted by crewmeal

Matt101

How can you say that!!!! If a product is not available onboard or the crew have run out of cokes, surely the simple thing would be to suggest an alternative, NOT patronise passengers.

and GrahamO's blah blah blah too

Now what should each Cabin Crew member do? Well really they should serve you what you ask for and deal with the potential problems later as professionally as possible,

[TightSlot]

There is one other "Kind" of High-Time Flight Attendant - one who still likes their job, is still good at it (in fact is better than the youngsters), still likes passengers (apart from the very occasional idiot) and uses their skill and experience to resolve customer issues in a sensible, adult and empathetic manner.

They tend not to get discussed, but they exist, and I'd suggest that there may be more of them than is appreciated?

[Matt101]

I tend to agree which is why I returned hot air for hot air. Not very mature of me TS I am sorry. First time I've read much down here, probably should be the last.

[easyflyer83]

Like everyones post here, my experience (both as crew and passenger) is anecdotal.

I'm a number 1 and relatively young at 28 (ok can't say that for much longer) but it is quite surprising at how passengers attitudes can be towards certain crew. When I have a more mature crew, say late 30's and older) passengers generally are a lot more polite. However a lot of younger crew are spoken to like sometimes and I am of the firm belief that this is because people feel it is either more acceptable or that they are able to get away with it. Such is the negative perception of young people these days. By contrast I find older people much ruder. Complete generalistion of course but that is my experience. I can kindly ask passengers to do something using sir/madam and I can be snapped at or questioned. Younger people tend to not be like that.

By the same token, I know an older female crew member is rude on a regular basis to passengers. Younger crew tend to be more enthusiastic and friendly, if not necassarilly the best at the job. One thing about some younger crew is that they can be good at the job, friendly and polite but not always the most professional. If that makes sense.

I do also think that perception plays a huge part. One thing I am aware of at work is that many people will be judging you....... we have a captive audience. It's amazing how many people I catch just watching me like they would a film. Nothing wrong with that but it makes me very self conscious. But it was particularly evident one day when a older passenger retorted as she disembarked that I need to smile more as I look miserable. I am professional and polite at work if not the most smiliest person but it goes to show that the passenger, despite being slightly rude, and even though I was polite and efficient, still took me the wrong way.

I'm not trying to excuse rude crew but I just thought my experience might add something to the debate.

[PAXboy]

Linerider

In the UK, for some people there is clearly a stigma attached to providing customer service.

Ah, have you experienced customer service in South Africa? Amongst other nations of the world, SA doesn't do customer service in the way that many expect it. Don't expect service in a SA restaurant to be as you get in Germany.

That's not bad - it's just different!

[easyflyer83]

I personally don't see much stigma in working in customer service in the UK. Not like there is in the US anyway.

[bondim]

Paxboy,

I have a completely opposite experience re customer service in SA. I spent a week in CPT in October, and have recieved friendly and attentive service everywhere I went.

[radeng]

I's very noticeable that frequently on BA, the DF whisky runs out on the homeward run. CC have told me that many times, they have requested management to load extra stocks of alcohol and cigarettes on the runes to Switzerland and their requests are always ignored.

There are times that one feels the whole purpose of BA management is pi** off customers and crew. Although I see certain European flights have again got hot towels in CE.