Six Year Old Frisked in New Orleans
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radeng - You surprise me, I expect better of you!
Watching the video, it struck me that the TSA agent tried (to a degree, at least) to be as pleasant as she could, under the circumstances.
This doesn't mean that I am defending the process however, which is clearly unsatisfactory
Watching the video, it struck me that the TSA agent tried (to a degree, at least) to be as pleasant as she could, under the circumstances.
This doesn't mean that I am defending the process however, which is clearly unsatisfactory
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I feel it was a little over the top, but it was the fact that the parents were filming it, that actually meant that the staff member had to do a particularly thorough and by the book job.
The upset of this child was, in my view, added to by the parents stance and the conversations held prior to the search were not filmed.
The security staff member was just doing what the US Government have asked her to do. It is, in-fact, a well known fact that smugglers often use their children and although this child was unlikely to be in this category, that is maybe the reason that children are included in the search processes, in the USA and probably many other countries.
The upset of this child was, in my view, added to by the parents stance and the conversations held prior to the search were not filmed.
The security staff member was just doing what the US Government have asked her to do. It is, in-fact, a well known fact that smugglers often use their children and although this child was unlikely to be in this category, that is maybe the reason that children are included in the search processes, in the USA and probably many other countries.
The argument that they are doing what they were asked to do does not make it right. It is a condoned sexual assault on a child - or, for that matter, on an adult.
One can draw a similarity between various regimes and their 'legal' treatment of people.
Now you can argue that it is a contractual condition of buying a ticket and flying that you submit to what is technically a sexual assault. Then there is a question as to whether or not such a condition is legal, and I believe the ACLU have ongoing legal actions about this. If the Supreme Court rules against the TSA, then there could well be a number of actions brought, and it would be very hard for a TSA staff member to say 'I was only doing my job' as a defence.
One can draw a similarity between various regimes and their 'legal' treatment of people.
Now you can argue that it is a contractual condition of buying a ticket and flying that you submit to what is technically a sexual assault. Then there is a question as to whether or not such a condition is legal, and I believe the ACLU have ongoing legal actions about this. If the Supreme Court rules against the TSA, then there could well be a number of actions brought, and it would be very hard for a TSA staff member to say 'I was only doing my job' as a defence.
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ZET,
You can smuggle more than drugs!!... Knives, explosives etc.etc.
Now, I am sure that this child was not smuggling and was merely a random number, in a line of passengers, that was the next one to be searched.
Radeng,
Having looked at the video, the search looked like a text book search, and that was probably because she new she was being filmed. Had she done a scant search, you can be sure someone would be saying she was not being thorough enough and would have posted it as an example of a bad search!!.
I feel sorry for this staff member because all she was doing was fulfilling her job as laid down by the US government and it is they that you should be taking to task, not this staff member.
You can smuggle more than drugs!!... Knives, explosives etc.etc.
Now, I am sure that this child was not smuggling and was merely a random number, in a line of passengers, that was the next one to be searched.
Radeng,
Having looked at the video, the search looked like a text book search, and that was probably because she new she was being filmed. Had she done a scant search, you can be sure someone would be saying she was not being thorough enough and would have posted it as an example of a bad search!!.
I feel sorry for this staff member because all she was doing was fulfilling her job as laid down by the US government and it is they that you should be taking to task, not this staff member.
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Godwin's Law kicks in - a little earlier than usual, but hey!
OK, how about Blair on Iraq that 'it was their fault they got bombed'?
You really cannot avoid the charge of criminality by saying 'I was only following orders'.
Unless you are the Israeli Defence Force.....
You really cannot avoid the charge of criminality by saying 'I was only following orders'.
Unless you are the Israeli Defence Force.....
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Tightslot
Forgive me for saying this, but Mike Godwin maintains that one should only use the comparison when appropriate.
At Nuremburg, the judges rejected the defence of following orders from superiors and Radeng clearly states that the US Supreme Court is considering a petition from ACLU, which would have the same effect (which I accept as being true, since I don't know.)
Neither does Radeng post luridly, he simply rebuts Betty Girl's post in a factual and restrained manner.
From my perspective, Radeng makes a fair point.
Forgive me for saying this, but Mike Godwin maintains that one should only use the comparison when appropriate.
At Nuremburg, the judges rejected the defence of following orders from superiors and Radeng clearly states that the US Supreme Court is considering a petition from ACLU, which would have the same effect (which I accept as being true, since I don't know.)
Neither does Radeng post luridly, he simply rebuts Betty Girl's post in a factual and restrained manner.
From my perspective, Radeng makes a fair point.
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How can you possibly think that calling a staff member a pedophile and saying she made a sexual assault upon that child; and then comparing the situation to a Nazi death camp and describing her doing her job as criminal behaviour, as factual and restrained.
I am surprised that Tightshot hasn't shut this thread down by now!
I am surprised that Tightshot hasn't shut this thread down by now!
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Betty Girl.
How can you possibly think that calling a staff member a pedophile and saying she made a sexual assault upon that child; and then comparing the situation to a Nazi death camp and describing her doing her job as criminal behaviour, as factual and restrained.
Given the nature of the task, I thought the staff member was particularly thoughtful, talking to the little girl all the time and telling her what she was doing.
Having said that, I am surprised that a simple walkthru scanner was not considered adequate on this occasion.
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Betty Girl
I don't think Radeng is comparing the lady to a nazi.
He is considering the legal position of a government employee following an instruction that may in the future be declared unlawful.
This is known as the 'Nuremburg' defence, for obvious reasons.
Please note that I did not comment on the 'paedophile' or 'Israeli' statements, only the Godwin's law comment.
I don't mind being challenged, but please make sure that you challenge what I said and not what I didn't say, it would be much appreciated.
I don't think Radeng is comparing the lady to a nazi.
He is considering the legal position of a government employee following an instruction that may in the future be declared unlawful.
This is known as the 'Nuremburg' defence, for obvious reasons.
Please note that I did not comment on the 'paedophile' or 'Israeli' statements, only the Godwin's law comment.
I don't mind being challenged, but please make sure that you challenge what I said and not what I didn't say, it would be much appreciated.
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Dawdler,
I totally agree with you.
I was merely explaining why she was being SO detailed in her task, and that was because she was being filmed.
I expect the little girl had already set the scanner off. They go off if you have something on you that sets them off but also randomly, and if they go off, the security worker is required to do a personal search.
Frognal,
Wasn't it you that posted these words:-
'Neither does Radeng post luridly, he simply rebuts Betty Girl's post in a factual and restrained manner.'
I would have thought mentioning Nazi's, pedophiles, sexual assault and comparing this woman to a criminal was lurid, but I just guess we see things differently.
That's fine though. I only posted because I get frisked up to three times a day in a quite similar way and I felt that she was just doing her job, and that this should be taken up with the US government, her employer, rather that blaming this security worker. That's all.
I totally agree with you.
I was merely explaining why she was being SO detailed in her task, and that was because she was being filmed.
I expect the little girl had already set the scanner off. They go off if you have something on you that sets them off but also randomly, and if they go off, the security worker is required to do a personal search.
Frognal,
Wasn't it you that posted these words:-
'Neither does Radeng post luridly, he simply rebuts Betty Girl's post in a factual and restrained manner.'
I would have thought mentioning Nazi's, pedophiles, sexual assault and comparing this woman to a criminal was lurid, but I just guess we see things differently.
That's fine though. I only posted because I get frisked up to three times a day in a quite similar way and I felt that she was just doing her job, and that this should be taken up with the US government, her employer, rather that blaming this security worker. That's all.
Last edited by Betty girl; 15th Apr 2011 at 22:49.
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Betty Girl
If you read the thread again, you will see that I was commenting purely on radeng's rebuttal of your comment that "I feel sorry for this staff member because all she was doing was fulfilling her job as laid down by the US government and it is they that you should be taking to task, not this staff member.."
Radeng said "Sorry to say it, but that excuse is like saying that a Nazi death camp guard was mrely 'fulfilling orders.'
Please tell me what part of that line is lurid and unrestrained?
I repeat, I am not commenting on the paedophile/sex assault/Israeli Defense Force comments.
If you read the thread again, you will see that I was commenting purely on radeng's rebuttal of your comment that "I feel sorry for this staff member because all she was doing was fulfilling her job as laid down by the US government and it is they that you should be taking to task, not this staff member.."
Radeng said "Sorry to say it, but that excuse is like saying that a Nazi death camp guard was mrely 'fulfilling orders.'
Please tell me what part of that line is lurid and unrestrained?
I repeat, I am not commenting on the paedophile/sex assault/Israeli Defense Force comments.
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Frognal,
I have read the whole of this thread from start to finish and nothing I posted about the security worker, just doing her job, deserved it to be compared to Nazi guards doing their jobs.
Lets just agree to differ.
I feel that radeng's views about this woman are over the top and I am not sure what you believe.
Lets leave it at that.
I have read the whole of this thread from start to finish and nothing I posted about the security worker, just doing her job, deserved it to be compared to Nazi guards doing their jobs.
Lets just agree to differ.
I feel that radeng's views about this woman are over the top and I am not sure what you believe.
Lets leave it at that.
