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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

Old 13th May 2011, 11:31
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I'm thinking along similar lines mrpony.

One single union branch moving forward.

So no more BASSA and that pesky rule that reps must be serving BA CC.

DH installed as a permanent salaried secretary of the new single BA CC union? I wouldn't be at all surprised.
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Old 13th May 2011, 11:39
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DH installed as a permanent salaried secretary of the new single BA CC union? I wouldn't be at all surprised.
Would Unite dare to be that blatant? - No I wouldn't be surprised either, however would he be allowed to confront BA execs face to face?
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Old 13th May 2011, 11:47
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Angel

That wont happen and I am sure all the reps will still be current cabin crew. There maybe full time officials but I very much doubt that DH would be chosen, after all I am sure they are wanting to attract back their previous membership and M/F crew, and employing DH is hardly going to do that!!

Even though DH has a following there are many within Bassa and particularly Amicus who do not like him.
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Old 13th May 2011, 11:48
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Is it time for Unite to remove this image from its website?

http://uniteba.com/ESW/Images/walsh_red_eyes.jpg
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Old 13th May 2011, 11:49
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DH for fulltime official?

I hope not! He does seem to have a peculiar relationship with the truth as has been demonstrated over the last eighteen months.

Last edited by Dawdler; 13th May 2011 at 13:29. Reason: clarity
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Old 13th May 2011, 11:51
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I can't imagine a scenario where the Head Gardener is allowed back into close contact with, or even near, BA's tomatoes. Something at Unite's head orifice maybe.

I am convinced that 'the accounts' is a story that needs air. It suits both Unite and DH to stifle the story ultimately, but in the meantime Unite have someone's balls in a vice. Ouch!
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:03
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Although Unite has a track record of giving jobs to sacked BA employees and I believe one of the reps sacked (NM) now works for Unite, I think there is absolutely no chance of Unite giving Duncan a full time role. I expect Unite are glad to see the back of him as much as BA.
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:05
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DH

As I see it, as soon as BASSA members vote in agreement with the new deal, DH has no option but to resign immediately. He has only held on to the post in BASSA, as a non BA employee, only because the branch was in dispute with BA.

This will then leave someone else in charge to wrap up BASSA, put the cat out, and let the new single branch be established. As this will take some time to do, I cannot see how DH could cling on to power for that long, in hope of continuing his authority?

A vote would also need to be made (I would imagine) to establish a branch secretary for the new branch. Not sure of DH's chances here if he did decide to stand... I would think that the ex-CC89 members and the non-strikers would vote for someone else?

It will be interesting to see if DH acts in an honorable way, and stands down, to let things within BA move on, or whether he clings on to power to until the last day...


Speaking of CC89, it is interesting that there web site has still no comment on the deal reached yesterday... clearly they can't work out how to react to the deal and the impact on them!?
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:08
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DH has taken a leaf out of the Mythbusters in his approach to selling this particular turd to his Faithful flock:

?rel=0" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen>
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:37
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When Unite merges the two branches, I do hope it takes full control of BASSA's assets including its domain name and server. It would be unfortunate if BASSA was allowed to continue in an unofficial form with its toxic forum being used to stir up trouble.
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:50
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Betty Girl

You have your opinions of WW, which I respect, but I don't believe he is anything as bad as you portray.

Through successive weak BA managements over the years DH & BASSA had successfuly taken complete control over BA's IFCE operations. WW couldn't just walk-up to DH and say "by the way, dear chap, that's not cricket you know, how about giving me control of my company back please."

Having let it get so out of line BA needed to restore the balance of power.

BA, through WW, had no choice but to build up defenses (VCC, MF, temp CC, contract charter services, etc.) while attempting to negotiate reasonably then take DH/BASSA head-on and lock-horns in an all out fully-fledged power-struggle (war). When you lock-horns you throw everything at your adversary that you possibly can (i.e. initially "ST gone for ever" - which, after taking the upper hand, WW did offer to return before his promotion).

As head of IAG, WW is still in charge with overall responsibility for both BA and now Iberia. Do you think he would have allowed KW to negotiate anything he would not have approved?

I was always surprised that WW was directly involved in negotiations to start with. Most CEOs have their staff front the negotiation while controlling them from a back room. Indeed as a tactic, inadvertent as it was, the Union having Unite's GS fronting the negotiations with DH in the back room having ultimate control over acceptance made BA's negotiating position all the harder. I was often surprised BA did not change their tactics in this regard and you could view the final situation of KW fronting the negotiations for WW as establishing that very position. WW's personal presence would then have been less apparent as it is now.

DH (and LMcL) need to be thankful that BA did not embarass them by making them have to make the strike call before the holiday thus making them look foolish in front of their members. The number of failed ballots was a pretty bad spectacle already. The fact they were not and are attempting to spin a victory out of a complete capitualtion is a statement of their megalomanical personalities. Indeed, Unite is lucky that BA did not let the situation develop to an eventual melt-down ending in Union derecognition.

As many have said, BA got the Union it deserved. The same is only too true for the CC in that they get the Union they deserve (elect) too.

I would suggest that intelligent, thinking, moderate and sensible CC such as yourself take great care to promote and elect a very different executive to the 'unruly mob' that wielded power before. Perhaps some of the people behind the PCCC should put themselves forward for election? In stripping the power from the current executive, BA have created an opportunity for the rank-and-file to think again and choose a very different executive moving forwards. They could, of course, sit back and let the existing power-hungry, unintelligent and immature mob to regroup under a different name, take back the reigns, and lead the Union back to business as usual.

CC have the choice.......

Last edited by AV Flyer; 13th May 2011 at 14:46.
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:55
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Good point LDnumbers.

Forum is managed, manipulated and moderated by none other than........from a home address.

I doubt the Bassa name will survive any rebranding of the Union offer to CC because it has picked up a bit of a whiff - it's not polish-able.
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:58
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Talking about a any 'unofficial' future for BASSA could there be any connection with the recently incorporated entity?


BASSA LIMITED
130 BOURNEMOUTH ROAD
CHANDLERS FORD EASTLEIGH
EASTLEIGH
HANTS
ENGLAND
SO53 3AL
Company No. 07492282

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 13/01/2011

Last edited by rjc54n; 13th May 2011 at 13:00. Reason: spelling
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Old 13th May 2011, 14:36
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On the other thread Pornpants asks whether this is unbiased reporting.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...w-dispute.html

Whether it is unbiased or not I cannot say, but from my point of view the author has it just right.
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Old 13th May 2011, 14:47
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As I see it, as soon as BASSA members vote in agreement with the new deal, DH has no option but to resign immediately. He has only held on to the post in BASSA, as a non BA employee, only because the branch was in dispute with BA.

This will then leave someone else in charge to wrap up BASSA, put the cat out, and let the new single branch be established. As this will take some time to do, I cannot see how DH could cling on to power for that long, in hope of continuing his authority?
Well of course there's now a ballot to be organised (perhaps also double checking eligibility to vote) not to mention the time for the ballot (maybe extended to ensure everyone has plenty of time in the interests of democracy ). No doubt the "rules" allow DH to stay in post until a formal Yes vote is declared.

A vote would also need to be made (I would imagine) to establish a branch secretary for the new branch. Not sure of DH's chances here if he did decide to stand... I would think that the ex-CC89 members and the non-strikers would vote for someone else?
Given the establishment of a completely new branch, with a new constitution etc. etc., I'm sure there's flexibility somewhere along the line to keep DH in charge to manage the transition especially since the branch will have new rules. As DH will obviously want to dot the i's and cross the t's all this might take until DH is due to retire anyway! I believe I've seen October mentioned in the past. The fact that certain CC benefits such as ST might be delayed is neither here nor there.

It will be interesting to see if DH acts in an honorable way, and stands down, to let things within BA move on, or whether he clings on to power to until the last day...
Perhaps I'm unduly cynical but I suspect that 'honorable' may not the description used.

All IMHO of course.
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Old 13th May 2011, 15:04
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Betty Girl

Very many thanks for your reply on the Professionals' Thread. I have read carefully and thought through your responses but still can't see WW is as bad as he is portrayed by many CC.

It is very difficult to tackle an opponent who, when questioned, puts his fingers in his ears, says "no negotiation go away", and calls strike action quickly when you don't depart but instead continue to challenge his position.

As with a recalcitrant child, hard-ball and perhaps a little isolation on the naughty-step is a very appropriate response. BASSA needed to be pushed right-up to where it finally admitted its back was against the wall before it threw in the towel. It's the only way to deal with bullies. Anything short would have let BASSA live to recover for another day.

As it happens, I believe BA should have played a fraction harder and pushed home its victory just a little further and in showing clemency when it did has risked leaving a chink open for an old style BASSA resurgence - only time will tell.

I think if WW is as hard-headed as people say he would not have hired someone as apparently convivial as KW to work for him and WW's alleged hard-man attitude would have pervaded throughout the entire IAG organisation which clearly is not the case.

A good example of this effect is DH's leadership style and BASSA's appalingly immature behaviour.

But then the world would be a dull place if we all agreed.

Well done for keeping us all appraised of the inside view throughout this entire matter. I, for one, am planning travel with BA again later this year.

Last edited by AV Flyer; 13th May 2011 at 20:11.
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Old 13th May 2011, 15:35
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AVF/BettyG

I agree with the thrust of what AVF says re. WW. Plus:

WW picked himself (rightly) as the best person to negotiate with Unite/Bassa, as the mouthpiece for all the unpopular structural change that was needed and as a lightning rod for all the discontent that it caused. But remember that the main board and all the top exec's including Williams were right behind him knowing exactly what sort of character he is. WW had been comprehensively 'beasted' by BASSA from the day he joined so had little to lose by proving them right.

Last edited by mrpony; 13th May 2011 at 16:47.
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Old 13th May 2011, 21:43
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Whatever happened to that 10 point list of issues that had to be resolved eh Dunc?

Has he actually read the agreement because there are going to be surprises down the line when BASSA disappears, staff travel does not come back straight away and BA asks for more productivity improvements to fund the payrise.

In the aftermath of yesterday’s “meeting in a tent” to quote C4, I thought perhaps timely to give you my personal view of where we are in the light that all members will now be balloted on the settlement document. I have just this morning read it myself for the first time, I know you are all anxious to see the small print and all being well we should be in a position to publish it on the website around noon on Monday. We did promise BA that it would have a synchronised release and that is the earliest date all sides are able to come up with and also we have yet to go through it with the reps so they can answer your questions etc when the time comes.

I have to say - speaking as a “pink-jacketed militant” - I am really comfortable with everything I have seen, I think it is a honourable conclusion to what has been a bloody battle. Compared to where we were last October this document is unrecognisable and I sincerely believe it offers all the desired safeguards and protections you have fought for and suffered for. I was very wholesome in my praise of Nigel, Chris and Len yesterday because they all deserve it, but I have got to say it seems to me that finally we have a man running BA who has some empathy with what we try to do on your behalf and some recognition that we can work together for the greater good. I don’t want to embarrass Mr Williams, and no doubt my endorsement will cause him to shift uncomfortably in his seat, but everything that has been passed back to me from those at the coal face convinces me that we now have now a leader with a genuine desire for peace and a determination to ensure the mistakes of the past are learnt from. You only have to look at the sensible language of the document to realise we are now dealing with someone who realises being fair and respectful of his employees is the most practical way forward. He has already gone a long way to earn the trust of three people I trust and that is good enough for me.

I would like to say a few words about LGW. I know the reps and those brave souls who did take industrial action feel deserted now BA have announced they are to form their own NSP but I feel they have nothing to fear. Nothing down there will change, they will still be operating exactly as they have over the last few years and indeed that document gives them as much protection as it does the members at LHR. They will have their own branch, constitution etc and I have offered my help in setting up any structures they feel they need. All 3 reps backed the action and have supported me on a personal level. They are good people and LGW cabin crew will be wise to adopt them as their new leadership, certainly to start with. The reality is however, if we had tried to resist BA’s plans it could have meant balloting LHR crews to go on strike on behalf of a base that in reality did not support us; no matter how much we try and defend what is right we have got to be pragmatic as well.

In some ways I am sorry to be leaving because I really believe this agreement will soothe troubled waters that have been far too choppy for far too long. There will be, as Len mentioned yesterday, further spats but with a trusting relationship being created for the first time in many years, life should be a lot less stressful for everybody.

As I looked out upon that massive gathering yesterday I really did feel quite emotional. The responsibility of encouraging a workforce to take strike action and all that involves was not one that sat lightly on my shoulders despite everything that has been said in other quarters. There wasn’t a night over the last year and a half where I did not doubt the direction we were all heading and I know my fellow reps all had similar concerns. But I felt we had no choice and also we would not have another chance to resist something I felt was intrinsically unjust. I am not afraid to say that I would do it all again because I genuinely believe it was the only option - I am only sorry there were so many casualties. So many of you told me yesterday how unwell this dispute had made you; it was very sobering listening.

I have certainly had my eyes opened over these last few years. I have learnt a lot about certain colleagues within BA, I have been educated about the judiciary system in this country and I have learnt a lot about how the media works. But most of all I have learnt a lot about myself and 7000 BA crew and it is those two learning curves that will stay with me the longest.

I realise that the fat lady has yet to clear her throat and there is the not unimportant matter of a ballot before this deal can be ratified. It is important that everyone has a voice and the majority decision is respected. That will happen over the next month. Please participate.

One good thing if this dispute is finally over, is I can get cracking on putting the tomatoes into the grow bags, think about going on a diet - I put on 3lbs just standing next to the burger van yesterday, and hopefully start being a bit nicer to my family, now there is not so much to get stressed about.

Finally I know a lot of you have lots of questions as to how this is all going to pan out “logistics” wise, especially those who have been disciplined during the dispute but some of the fine detail has yet to be explained to those that will be involved and of course the deal has not yet been signed off so please bear with everyone while ducks are put in a row.
Have a good weekend, especially those going to Andrea’s party and thank you all for your support without which we will not have come so far.
Rgds Duncan
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Old 13th May 2011, 22:10
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What a nice man!
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Old 13th May 2011, 22:58
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What a pompous person! He uses the kind of language that is meant to be interpreted as modest but is actually self-aggrandising.

Sounds like a non-eloquent Tony Blair. That is, nothing rings true.
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