BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V
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The not small number of 6000 Unite/Bassa members still disagree with you, after all of this time, which many choose to ignore.
That's been the whole point surely? 
Roger.
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What is right will no doubt be based on how much it affects you and how much you perceive it to be at threat to your current employment, with the terms and conditions that go with it.
So no doubt, the 6000 believe they are right.
So no doubt, the 6000 believe they are right.
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Dawdler,
You can only see the 'eyes' if you view the page on a computer with a large screen, if you view it from a phone or a small screen like an ipad, the eyes don't appear.
Hope that helps.
You can only see the 'eyes' if you view the page on a computer with a large screen, if you view it from a phone or a small screen like an ipad, the eyes don't appear.
Hope that helps.
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Yes indeed, 5811 CC members do appear correctly or incorrectly to perceive their Ts & Cs are substantially being threatened and in conjunction with their striking efforts believe that BASSA is doing an absolutely sterling job in defending their futures and is on the verge of forcing BA to completely capitulate in their collective favours thus preserving their current lifestyles for eternity.
We only have to look at the ludicrous thread posts of jublilation when KW agreed to extend the strike call deadline before the holiday to see how these 5811 deluded individuals misguidedly misinterpreted this gesture by BA as meaning they had "won" in their absolute belief that everything they hear from BASSA is the gospel truth and, should they even choose to listen, the complete opposite for everything they hear from BA.
The fact is that very little of what they hear from BASSA is true and the majority, by far, of what they hear from BA is true.
In the next few days there is thus going to be a great revealing and dawning of some absolute truths which have been conveniently hidden from CC until now and I must say it is going to be an absolutely fascinating and riveting spectacle to watch this whole debacle unfold.
Somewhere in here, correctly or incorrectly, morally or immorally, lawfully or unlawfully, certain persons have repeatedly at the very least been economical with the truth and at the very worst been telling open and wanton porkies with the deliberate intent to deceive.
That, Litebulbs, is why VK says BASSA members are "wasting" their money and "condoning this nonsense" and why Landroger says "right"(ly or wrongly) while absolutely no-one here is choosing to ignore any of the 5811 misguided CC who, as mature adults, have freely chosen to allow themselves to be deceived in this potentially unlawful manner.
We only have to look at the ludicrous thread posts of jublilation when KW agreed to extend the strike call deadline before the holiday to see how these 5811 deluded individuals misguidedly misinterpreted this gesture by BA as meaning they had "won" in their absolute belief that everything they hear from BASSA is the gospel truth and, should they even choose to listen, the complete opposite for everything they hear from BA.
The fact is that very little of what they hear from BASSA is true and the majority, by far, of what they hear from BA is true.
In the next few days there is thus going to be a great revealing and dawning of some absolute truths which have been conveniently hidden from CC until now and I must say it is going to be an absolutely fascinating and riveting spectacle to watch this whole debacle unfold.
Somewhere in here, correctly or incorrectly, morally or immorally, lawfully or unlawfully, certain persons have repeatedly at the very least been economical with the truth and at the very worst been telling open and wanton porkies with the deliberate intent to deceive.
That, Litebulbs, is why VK says BASSA members are "wasting" their money and "condoning this nonsense" and why Landroger says "right"(ly or wrongly) while absolutely no-one here is choosing to ignore any of the 5811 misguided CC who, as mature adults, have freely chosen to allow themselves to be deceived in this potentially unlawful manner.
Last edited by AV Flyer; 9th May 2011 at 11:03.
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On the eve of what could be the most significant week of this dispute, the "Self Loading Freight" thread seems to be engaging in substantive and relevant discussion, while the "Other Thread" has descended into some nonsensical wittering about crew positions and the perennial soporific Captain vs. CSD as Manager debate.
While not wishing to over-egg the importance of pprune, I do get the impression it's one of the top five sites from which cabin crew glean the "latest" so it's slightly discouraging to see such a lack of engagement with the issues at hand.
Even the usually dreadful cabincrew.com has a few good posts, particularly by leo in this thread on BASSA Democracy:
CabinCrew.com: BASSA DEMOCRACY -HOW DOES IT WORK?
There is absolutely no suggestion by BASSA that the participants in next week's appallingly undemocratic "show of hands" (no doubt including a few children sprinkled among the masses, which couldn't be more inappropriate) will be given any advance notice of the offer BA has put on the table, and nothing substantive has been communicated up to now, either on the 10 reasons for dispute, or an how the October 2010 offer will be changed to be satisfactory.
If anyone thinks the BASSA leadership is aiming to resolve this dispute, then I want some of what they're smoking.
BASSA is playing right into the hands of BA Management and Unite, all at the expense of cabin crew, the monthly subs, livelihoods and working relationships. This level of incompetence will have serious ramifications for others who have a justifiable grievance in future, and is on the verge of impacting the credibility of unionism for a generation.
While not wishing to over-egg the importance of pprune, I do get the impression it's one of the top five sites from which cabin crew glean the "latest" so it's slightly discouraging to see such a lack of engagement with the issues at hand.
Even the usually dreadful cabincrew.com has a few good posts, particularly by leo in this thread on BASSA Democracy:
CabinCrew.com: BASSA DEMOCRACY -HOW DOES IT WORK?
There is absolutely no suggestion by BASSA that the participants in next week's appallingly undemocratic "show of hands" (no doubt including a few children sprinkled among the masses, which couldn't be more inappropriate) will be given any advance notice of the offer BA has put on the table, and nothing substantive has been communicated up to now, either on the 10 reasons for dispute, or an how the October 2010 offer will be changed to be satisfactory.
If anyone thinks the BASSA leadership is aiming to resolve this dispute, then I want some of what they're smoking.
BASSA is playing right into the hands of BA Management and Unite, all at the expense of cabin crew, the monthly subs, livelihoods and working relationships. This level of incompetence will have serious ramifications for others who have a justifiable grievance in future, and is on the verge of impacting the credibility of unionism for a generation.
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BASSA/CC89 statement
I believe that there is a need for some clarification on the status/relationship of the above, versus each other and Unite.
The assumptions are being made that both BASSA and CC89 are branches, and that CC89 is a senior branch doing the negotiating - or possibly both are equal branches.
In the fairly recent past CC89 has created a list of their demands, which were greater than either Unite or BASSA and included items unique to them. CC89 are also seemingly SWP connected and driven, and appear to have a relatively small membership of approx 1,000. Why are they apparently negotiating with BA on behalf of Unite, BASSA and themselves, surely they have not been given this authority by Unite, after their past performance.
BASSA have never been in full agreement with CC89 on reasons for IA. In any event, they have in the past, ignoring CC89, declared strike dates without Unites agreement, and had Unite then agree that BASSA have the sole authority to agree and finish a dispute.
SO - what is the position, I would expect a notification being issued jointly by Unite (Mclusky) and BA, not two minor malfunctioning non-entities with a history of deliberately causing problems.
How can any trust be put in the declared statement other than to view it as a declaration of intended IA and dates - or am I being cynical?
The assumptions are being made that both BASSA and CC89 are branches, and that CC89 is a senior branch doing the negotiating - or possibly both are equal branches.
In the fairly recent past CC89 has created a list of their demands, which were greater than either Unite or BASSA and included items unique to them. CC89 are also seemingly SWP connected and driven, and appear to have a relatively small membership of approx 1,000. Why are they apparently negotiating with BA on behalf of Unite, BASSA and themselves, surely they have not been given this authority by Unite, after their past performance.
BASSA have never been in full agreement with CC89 on reasons for IA. In any event, they have in the past, ignoring CC89, declared strike dates without Unites agreement, and had Unite then agree that BASSA have the sole authority to agree and finish a dispute.
SO - what is the position, I would expect a notification being issued jointly by Unite (Mclusky) and BA, not two minor malfunctioning non-entities with a history of deliberately causing problems.
How can any trust be put in the declared statement other than to view it as a declaration of intended IA and dates - or am I being cynical?
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Absent friends
Where are the likes of MissM, that Hannah woman who purported to commute from South Africa at great personal expense, and all the other BASSA mouthpieces?
Isn't it strange that no one has heard from them, now that crunch time appears to be nigh? I would have thought that General Melchett - sorry,"admin" - would have rallied all his troops for what might be "the great push".
Isn't it strange that no one has heard from them, now that crunch time appears to be nigh? I would have thought that General Melchett - sorry,"admin" - would have rallied all his troops for what might be "the great push".
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LD 12986 and Lite Bulbs
Hi both,
Yep - whoa back, I've just reread the post from LD12986 - which always helps - so I take back what I wrote - but .......
What entity issued that statement about the negotiations and where was it published, its presumably not BASSA as its not from 'Admin' - why pick on CC89 as opposed to BASSA or both, why would they have a negotiating committee that was of any specific importance ......etc....
Yep - whoa back, I've just reread the post from LD12986 - which always helps - so I take back what I wrote - but .......
What entity issued that statement about the negotiations and where was it published, its presumably not BASSA as its not from 'Admin' - why pick on CC89 as opposed to BASSA or both, why would they have a negotiating committee that was of any specific importance ......etc....
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Entaxei
Now that is a really interesting post. I wonder who is sitting in the room and how is it being directed? I really hope that all of the interested parties on Unites side of the table are one team, regardless of position and wants.
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Hi Litebulbs
Is this a technical term? I am not familiar with it; would you mind explaining?
Originally Posted by Litebulbs
Any more thoughts on whether BA should demand a recommendation?
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If there is a show of hands you can reliably take it that DH has spun it HIS way to what HE wants. That is not democratic and is a massive dis-service to the BASSA membership. BA seem to have worked hard to reach a conclusion to this farce. If BASSA renounce it they are not worthy of their responsibilities to the members and Unite should at that point tell them in no uncertain terms how it IS done. We'll see!
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full circle?
It seems ironic to me that this whole farce started with a "show of hands" by BASSA to not negotiate, and now, after refusing BASSA members a proper democratic vote on a settlement, BASSA again wants to have another "show of hands" to prolong this dispute.
With "my mummy was sacked by BA" T-Shirts no doubt
(no doubt including a few children sprinkled among the masses, which couldn't be more inappropriate)
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#730
Hi both,
Yep - whoa back, I've just reread the post from LD12986 - which always helps - so I take back what I wrote - but .......
What entity issued that statement about the negotiations and where was it published, its presumably not BASSA as its not from 'Admin' - why pick on CC89 as opposed to BASSA or both, why would they have a negotiating committee that was of any specific importance ......etc....
Yep - whoa back, I've just reread the post from LD12986 - which always helps - so I take back what I wrote - but .......
What entity issued that statement about the negotiations and where was it published, its presumably not BASSA as its not from 'Admin' - why pick on CC89 as opposed to BASSA or both, why would they have a negotiating committee that was of any specific importance ......etc....
With "my mummy was sacked by BA" T-Shirts no doubt
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"On Wednesday morning the CC89 Negotiating Committee will be briefed on progress achieved........"
Contrary to its name, it doesn't sound like this particular committee has been involved in any negotiations whatsoever!
Ditto for the BASSA reps otherwise both wouldn't need briefing on the progress (or lack of it?) achieved on Wednesday.
So, just exactly who has been or is currently involved in the negotiations?
We've heard mention of KW & LM at one level then BF & ?? at the next level down. Anyone heard any more than this?
Contrary to its name, it doesn't sound like this particular committee has been involved in any negotiations whatsoever!
Ditto for the BASSA reps otherwise both wouldn't need briefing on the progress (or lack of it?) achieved on Wednesday.
So, just exactly who has been or is currently involved in the negotiations?
We've heard mention of KW & LM at one level then BF & ?? at the next level down. Anyone heard any more than this?
Last edited by AV Flyer; 9th May 2011 at 17:21.
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If I recall correctly, this is where the previous offer failed.
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The upcoming meeting at Bedfont.
Some information gleaned from elsewhere, which is interesting, the truth of which cannot be verified, but it sounds plausible:
have just received some very credible information.
A deal is and has been close for a number of days. However it is rumoured to be materially not much different to anything gone before.
Mr Holley is not involved in any talks and refuses to endorse this. Indeed the branch meeting this week is his idea, his call and his alone.
The rest of the BASSA committee and Unite will recommend this deal and the meeting is an attempt to derail it.
A deal is and has been close for a number of days. However it is rumoured to be materially not much different to anything gone before.
Mr Holley is not involved in any talks and refuses to endorse this. Indeed the branch meeting this week is his idea, his call and his alone.
The rest of the BASSA committee and Unite will recommend this deal and the meeting is an attempt to derail it.
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Doesn't sound incredible Dawdler.
The need for unanimity of the Branch Committee in the rules makes it impossible to agree anything that deviates from the strike mandate without an emergency meeting.
The need for unanimity of the Branch Committee in the rules makes it impossible to agree anything that deviates from the strike mandate without an emergency meeting.
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It is now very clear that the 'show of hands meeting at an undisclosed venue' announcement is a spurious and unsanctioned release by some split faction within Unite's Branch(es) as it is completely in bad faith. It's a more aggregious version of the DS tweeting content while negotiating episode.
This whole round of negotiations was entered into in good faith with a joint and mutually-agreed statement between BA & Unite and would never be concluded with such a random and potentially scuppering release.
My guess is that BA will now have stepped-back to respectfully allow time for the Union to 'sort-out' its wayward Branch(es) and to come back with a retraction while the clock is still ticking.......
Love to be a fly on the wall!
This whole round of negotiations was entered into in good faith with a joint and mutually-agreed statement between BA & Unite and would never be concluded with such a random and potentially scuppering release.
My guess is that BA will now have stepped-back to respectfully allow time for the Union to 'sort-out' its wayward Branch(es) and to come back with a retraction while the clock is still ticking.......
Love to be a fly on the wall!