Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)
Reload this Page >

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

Old 5th May 2011, 16:17
  #701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 62
Posts: 1,214
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BASSA were going to attend but also got the dates of Mr Benning's disciplinary hearing wrong

Joking aside (and its no laughing matter for Mr Benning), it seems to me from the snippets we have seen from the BASSA forum that aggressive attitudes towards non-strikers are encouraged in their members, and thus BASSA could be said to be cuplable for his dismissal.

Last edited by Mariner9; 5th May 2011 at 16:30.
Mariner9 is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 16:33
  #702 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Union did not appear at hearing

Not much one for conspiracy theories but the Express article refers to an affair:

The tribunal heard that married Benning was suffering from depression after having an affair with another member of BA cabin crew who became pregnant but lost the baby.
Claims that she complained of harassment by Benning were denied by his legal team.
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | Printer

There have been reports about 'trouble' within BASSA related to the fidelity of some crew. May be rubbish but it's a rumour network. Was Benning dumped for his indiscretion?
mrpony is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 16:45
  #703 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dawdler, But isn't the role of the rep to take the member through the disciplinary process and advise them of how to manage the process rather than make a judgment call on whether the case can be won?
LD12986 is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 21:29
  #704 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rugby
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
LD thanks for that. I always thought that a selling point of trade unions was that they would always be by your side in the event of trouble with the management. Perhaps that is too simplistic a view.

On the subject of simplistic views, I see on the staff thread, A13 a new poster has offered the following advice to Betty Girl.
if you were a member of Bassa perhaps you could of influenced things from within.
I wonder how she was supposed to achieve that with the current set up, where they do not even put a proposal to the membership when it was agreed by the Union Gen Sec to do so?
Dawdler is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 21:37
  #705 (permalink)  
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 67
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But isn't the role of the rep to take the member through the disciplinary process and advise them of how to manage the process rather than make a judgment call on whether the case can be won?
But.......er..........of course BASSA withdrew from the facilities agreement, which, no doubt, made it difficult for reps to assist members except in the reps own time! Yep that was a well thought out plan!
west lakes is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 00:24
  #706 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interesting post from FT:

This is an exchange from the BASSA forum. The italicised bit is the man himself

Quote:
Are you saying that on Thursday, the members present get to decide if its good enough? Im not going to be there and many others wont either.

OK we accept not everyone will be there but if it is rejected by those that are it simply means that the consultation process will have to wait until either (sic) we get a better deal by further strikes. .

ie: The nutters can turn up and wave their hands in the air and scupper any chance of the deal even going to ballot. I really do hope KW knows what he is doing because he may be about to lose his credibility on all sides.
pcat160 is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 09:29
  #707 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 62
Posts: 1,214
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To be fair to Unite/BASSA, they only have a week left to decide upon IA and thus do not have time now for a full consultation of their members.

I'm afraid that to end this dispute, we are reliant upon DH & Co putting their member's interests above their own.
Mariner9 is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 10:12
  #708 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To be fair to Unite/BASSA, they only have a week left to decide upon IA and thus do not have time now for a full consultation of their members.
...which they promised they would provide. There is nothng fair about the way they are bypassing their members, yet again.
Snas is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 10:42
  #709 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: up north
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So what happens if the branch calls a strike, UNITE advise that it's unprotected and therefore cannot sanction it, but the branch goes ahead anyway ?

Is this all a clever plot by Mr McCluskey to box DH et al into a corner, where the choice is back down and FO, or seriously breach the Union's legal mandate and the Union will cast you out ?
Hipennine is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 11:41
  #710 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'd have some sympathy with the position Len McCluskey is in if it wasn't the very same "Lenny" trying to broker a peace deal who was behind the calling of the 12 Days of Christmas strikes who also went ahead and called the first strikes even though Tony Woodley and Willie agreed on an extension to allow a deal to be put to the membership.

A cynic might suggest it was convenient for Len to get behind the strikes so he could make a name for himself when campaigning for Gen Sec.

Now this has all come back to haunt him and he has exactly the same problems that Tony Woodley had.
LD12986 is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 11:50
  #711 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cardiff, UK
Age: 62
Posts: 1,214
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Personally, I can't see Unite abandoning 10,000 x £15/month.

Much the same as I can't see the current BASSA leadership abandoning 10,000 x £? a month to put their members' interests first

Last edited by Mariner9; 6th May 2011 at 12:26.
Mariner9 is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 12:42
  #712 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: GB
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I would imagine Holley’s “pay” is actually quite modest. It’s more the total package that would tell the true story.

He has said he gets an “honorarium” of £25,000 per annum, half of what he’s entitled to. Good for him.

I would be more interested in the detail of the Union Pension (likely to be considerable), Private Healthcare, Car Scheme, Day Rate Payments for Union Duties, Additional Union Pay During IA, connected persons employed by him (e.g. his local accountancy firm), possible family members/friends/colleagues employed to perform administrative duties (such as the disastrous and incompetent outsource of the membership records), and other expenses claimed by him (including any legal expenses).

There may also be severance payments, and then potentially a nice golden parachute into a cushy job at Unite to see out his days.

All perfectly legal and above board, I’m sure, as HMRC can no doubt attest. But in the spirit of transparency it would seem prudent to publish these figures to the hard pressed membership who fund his lifestyle.

I would imagine, all in, that it’s a pretty tidy sum, on top of his previous book publishing exploits and other “outside interests”.

-----

We still haven’t seen the judgement from his Employment Tribunal, but its obviously not resulted in vindication or re-instatement. Anyone got a link?

----

On the matter of Mixed Fleet pay mentioned on the other thread, it does seem to be on the lower side of expectations, but it is being continually compared to legacy fleet T&Cs and wages – these were common in the past at other airlines BUT ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE IN THE MARKETPLACE. In many cases, such fleets have been wound down, or their employees made redundant. BA has chosen not to pursue this path, and that’s to be respected for lots of reasons. But a more apt comparison is against the uncertainty of a seasonal chart contract or a contract with Virgin which I posted some detailed stats on the previous page which set out that BA MF pays a little more (not much) than a new recruit to Virgin might expect (though their not recruiting right now).

When you add onto that the Performance Related BONUS (which does seem to less than easy to understand) from which MF will benefit, it does seem MF will be in the range of market+10% when judged on a full year basis.

-----

The end game must surely be nearing; Holley’s statements in recent weeks have been preparing his membership for an honourable settlement, and he’s now disconnected from participation from the negotiations. If he chooses to call a strike, with or without backing from Unite, its limited impact on the BA operation will surely marginalise the militant leadership of BASSA even further (personally I rather hope he does call one, so the militant boil can be lanced once and for all).

I can’t imagine what it must have been like for Cabin Crew working under such conditions for nearly TWO YEARS now, and surely it’s time to call it a day. As ever, I continue to receive good to excellent service on board from existing crews, though it is noticeable that the dispute has diminished the “spark” that could often be perceived. Let’s hope a settlement will all all factions to move forward, and set BA’s industrial relations on a stable platform so crew have the representation they deserve and BA Management is able to manage and seek common cause with those delivering the product to passengers.

It’s good to note this month’s passenger stats revealed that BASSA’s impotent strike threats have had no effect whatsoever on forward bookings. BASSA has nothing left in its armoury.

----

I would imagine any settlement will take as its starting point the October 2010 offer, never put to cabin crew, which not all crew have had an opportunity to read:

http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/151010_...llectivev6.doc

It’s time to move on.
VintageKrug is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 17:53
  #713 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hannover
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So Vintage Krug, you seem to have good insider knowledge.

Are you involved in British Airways as an employee or consultant?
Ralf Stosser is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 19:47
  #714 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: US
Age: 77
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This is quote frome Jeff Smisek, CEO of UA/CO, and I thought it particulary approriate to this dispute.

"And even in a unionised workforce, you can build that relationship with a unionised workforce where the worker thinks of themselves as employees of the enterprise first and union members second. If you have it flipped where it's union first and enterprise second, that's a path to ruin."
MCOflyer is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 20:20
  #715 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
MCOflyer

But you can flip that to say that it is just a job, not a way of life and if you get pi55ed off with it, then you can cause a little disruption and mayhem until you leave.
Litebulbs is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 22:16
  #716 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rugby
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Litebulbs

I thinks that's exactly what he said.
If you have it flipped where it's union first and enterprise second, that's a path to ruin."
Dawdler is offline  
Old 6th May 2011, 22:18
  #717 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: US
Age: 77
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
LB

I guess you could look at it that way as well. But if you had "just a job" would'nt you be looking to get out and into something you enjoy? Keeping a job that you dislike and making everyone around you miserable is a mindset I just don't get although I have seen that behavior all my working life.
MCOflyer is offline  
Old 7th May 2011, 06:37
  #718 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: EU
Age: 77
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reply to Betty Girl

Bettygirl,

May I reply to a post you made on the "other forum" about passenger satisfaction levels.

You quoted the high level of stisfaction on the WW fleets and the fact that these surveys are done by the CSD handing out surveys to selected passengers.

You ust know as well as I do (as a retired crew member married to another retired crew member) that these in flight surveys are a joke. Any response that crticises the crew is binned - only the complimentary surveys forms are returned.

Alpha 69
(Retired crew member so not allowed to post on the "other" forum)
alpha69 is offline  
Old 7th May 2011, 10:22
  #719 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"But if you had just a job would'nt you be looking to get out and into something you enjoy? Keeping a job that you dislike and making everyone around you miserable is a mindset I just don't get although I have seen that behavior all my working life"

I guess that depends if they can get another job on comparitive Terms and Conditions to maintain the lifestyle they have. The problem here is that there are a significant number of crew with a chip on their shoulder but who don't have useful transferable skills to get themselves a job outside of the industry and who won't accept a pay cut to work for another airline.

Of course, if there are other airlines who will provide better T&Cs then the question does arise - why aren't BA cabin crew moving elsewhere? Or why don't the other airlines want to recruit disgruntled BA crew?
BetterByBoat is offline  
Old 7th May 2011, 10:49
  #720 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Angel

alpha,

Yes of course, I did point out that these can be influenced. In various ways! One by giving them out to only happy passengers! Two, by not handing in bad ones but this actually leaves the CSD with a low return rate figure! Some hand back 100% and they are accountable for their return rate!

Of course M/F longhaul flights are the same I believe, as they, I believe, also hand them out and human nature dictates that the way a CSM would do this would be the same as a WW CSD. In fact a CSM would have a bigger interest in only handing in good ones as their pay is performance rated partly on their survey scores and a CSD's is not. If they are done electronically on their flights ie by email (and I have to be honest, I am not sure which way longhaul M/F crew do theirs, shorthaul is definitely like E/F and by email), the problems the same, you can't compare the two sets of scores and they will look very different to WW scores!! That was the point I was making, not whether it was a good system or not because neither is.

On E/F ,where I work we have no influence over what people respond (other than giving all our customers a lovely flight) but I have to tell you that the response rates are very low when sent out by email. As a E/F Purser I can see my personal scores for each month and these can vary from 100% one month to much lower figure the next month and this is because of low return rates!
If for instance only two replied for a particular flight, one said very good and one said just good, you would get a score of 50% because you are scored on how many passengers think you are 'very good' or 'exceptional' and a 'good' does not count towards your percentage. If only one replied on your flight, and they gave you a score of very good, you would get a score of 100%!! So these scores when multiplied up by BA are really showing them a trend for a route or an aircraft and are not very precise for individual senior crew members. It is not just as simple as a score for how you were, there are scores for presence in cabin, friendly, efficient etc and all the categories get a score and do vary in our individual figures!

The email version that is on my flights on E/F and some Mixed Fleet flights is less biased but not so good to track an individual senior crew member because of the low return rate and sometimes the passengers are answering about their longhaul sector and not even your flight because they have taken more than one flight by the time they receive the survey!

Basically I was only explaining a little about how these surveys are done to show you that it is hard to compare WW, E/F and M/F's scores because they are acquired in a different way. WW one way, E/F another and M/F either the same as E/F or a mix of them both! So saying that one fleet is performing better or not, is a pretty silly thing to say. As I said, the scores on all the fleets are up and are good and BA is happy with the cabin crew on all the fleets.

I hope that has clarified it for you.

I am not saying the handing out way is good as being a E/F Purser I don't understand why WW are still handing them out, on E/F it has not happened for years now but I am not sure if the email version is satisfactory either but it cannot be influenced by the crew handing them out, as you say to their favorite passengers!

I just wish more passengers would reply to the emails but of course, I am guilty of not replying to hotels, sometimes myself, when they email me or give me a form at reception!!

The reason for me mentioning all this in the first place was not because I think WW is better or not than M/F, it was in direct response to another poster saying that M/F scores were better. They are not, they are also good but the two sets cannot be compared for the reason I give to you plus bizarrely, they often have more crew due to VCCs and supernumerary crew under training! So even if it was possible to compare the results it would not be a fair comparison anyway!! As I said, their scores were lower than WW but higher than E/F but they are obtained in different ways, so not comparable.

Wow, that's a long answer, sorry!!!

Last edited by Betty girl; 7th May 2011 at 22:09.
Betty girl is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.