BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V
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Mon Colonel,
You are quite correct about the date for Easter 2011. My apologies to you (and to Hotel Mode) for the careless error.
However, Passover (like all Jewish festivals) commences on the evening before, i.e. 18 April this year. The Hebrew date for the beginning of Passover is 14 days after the new moon that heralds the month of Nissan.
Passover is observed for seven days in Israel, but for eight days in the Diaspora (like several other Jewish religious holidays). The reason for this anomaly is that, in Biblical times, Jews living outside "the Holy Land" could not be sure of the exact Hebrew date, so the extra day's observance is an insurance policy, if you will.
Best wishes and Hag Sameach (happy festival) from a veteran and confirmed matzah addict!
NB: None of the above implies that I will eschew the consumption of Easter eggs!
You are quite correct about the date for Easter 2011. My apologies to you (and to Hotel Mode) for the careless error.
However, Passover (like all Jewish festivals) commences on the evening before, i.e. 18 April this year. The Hebrew date for the beginning of Passover is 14 days after the new moon that heralds the month of Nissan.
Passover is observed for seven days in Israel, but for eight days in the Diaspora (like several other Jewish religious holidays). The reason for this anomaly is that, in Biblical times, Jews living outside "the Holy Land" could not be sure of the exact Hebrew date, so the extra day's observance is an insurance policy, if you will.
Best wishes and Hag Sameach (happy festival) from a veteran and confirmed matzah addict!
NB: None of the above implies that I will eschew the consumption of Easter eggs!
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mrpony
BA can just wait until BASSA in its current guise is a thing of the past. This year, probably. Next year, certainly. A few Cabin Crew look a bit miserable sometimes. So what?
BA have won so much already, whilst BASSA has failed to make any wins so far. This has never been about Union busting... and playing the long game is, as you point out, fiscally to BA's advantage.
Cant help but feel that ghastly behaviour by BA staff, such as the disgusting comparrison by BASSA to Jewish war dead can only be tolerated to a point by BA however... and they can easily change their course and issue 90 day notice for those still not on the new contract.... job done.
... the remaining BASSA members should think through their position very carefully IMHO, actions have consequencies...
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A couple of points that I'd disagree with Richard:
"Cant help but feel that ghastly behaviour by BA staff, such as the disgusting comparrison by BASSA to Jewish war dead can only be tolerated to a point by BA however" - can we not tarnish everyone at BA with the same brush. It was a small minority of BA cabin crew who took this disgusting action and not "BA staff" as a whole (or even cabin crew as whole).
"And they can easily change their course and issue 90 day notice for those still not on the new contract.... job done." - BA can't do this selectively so this action would also hit cabin crew who have not voted for strike action. BA would be shooting themselves in the foot with this approach.
I personally thought that BA wouldn't intefere with the last strike ballot and when it went ahead sack strikers on day 1 to effectively end the dispute and rid itself of disruptive crew. The fact they didn't suggests they won't do it now. It looks like they will be happy to take the "do nothing" approach that mr Pony suggests.
"Cant help but feel that ghastly behaviour by BA staff, such as the disgusting comparrison by BASSA to Jewish war dead can only be tolerated to a point by BA however" - can we not tarnish everyone at BA with the same brush. It was a small minority of BA cabin crew who took this disgusting action and not "BA staff" as a whole (or even cabin crew as whole).
"And they can easily change their course and issue 90 day notice for those still not on the new contract.... job done." - BA can't do this selectively so this action would also hit cabin crew who have not voted for strike action. BA would be shooting themselves in the foot with this approach.
I personally thought that BA wouldn't intefere with the last strike ballot and when it went ahead sack strikers on day 1 to effectively end the dispute and rid itself of disruptive crew. The fact they didn't suggests they won't do it now. It looks like they will be happy to take the "do nothing" approach that mr Pony suggests.
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LD12986 ...
Indeed, and I thought I made the distinction between BASSA and Unite perfectly clear in that respect. Whether the result of this vote is actually 'official' may, of course, be tested again in the Courts.
My question is when, and how, Unite's leadership does something about the BASSA 'loose cannon' ... failing so to do just undermines the entire concept of a decent Trades Union environment.
Is Unite really content to allow this farce to continue, driven by DH and 'others'?
If they are content to sit idly by, it speaks volumes about what Trades Unions may have again become ... a mechanism for dislodging an elected Government, or wrecking Companies from self-interest.
If not, they should DO something.
This has gone too far, and for too long, under the most tenuous of circumstances.
Unite should be working to resolve this [for a change] by forcing, at the very least, proper electoral processes within BASSA ... and entering into adult, responsible discussions with BA [if necessary over the heads of BASSA, even if that is regarded as "imposition"]
DH has no authority to call a ballot. This rests with Unite. The slightest hint of any unofficial action will be shot down immediately by Unite.
My question is when, and how, Unite's leadership does something about the BASSA 'loose cannon' ... failing so to do just undermines the entire concept of a decent Trades Union environment.
Is Unite really content to allow this farce to continue, driven by DH and 'others'?
If they are content to sit idly by, it speaks volumes about what Trades Unions may have again become ... a mechanism for dislodging an elected Government, or wrecking Companies from self-interest.
If not, they should DO something.
This has gone too far, and for too long, under the most tenuous of circumstances.
Unite should be working to resolve this [for a change] by forcing, at the very least, proper electoral processes within BASSA ... and entering into adult, responsible discussions with BA [if necessary over the heads of BASSA, even if that is regarded as "imposition"]
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Richard228
Yes, that Kristallnacht thing might even prove to be a tipping point. There can't be many of the 5700 YES voters who don't find it reprehensible.
I can't think of a single move made by BASSA in recent history that hasn't been self-destructive. It is an exceptional organisation in this respect. If BASSA were a person it would be diagnosed with a mental illness.
I can't think of a single move made by BASSA in recent history that hasn't been self-destructive. It is an exceptional organisation in this respect. If BASSA were a person it would be diagnosed with a mental illness.
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Sadly, I don't think it will make any difference whatsoever. The conciliatory gesture by KW in paying bonuses, Unite's incompetence in its handling of the last ballot and not admitting its failings until the last minute made no difference to the yes vote.
Unite rules
MPN,
Whilst mccluskey wants Column inches in the media, unite will do little or nothing about bassa. He continues to want column inches in the media to keep up his influence/status/prestige within the Broad Left coalition. Their current campaign is about embarrasing the present Government. (It has nothing whatsoever to do with retaining jobs in the public sector.......believe that and you'll soon see flying pigs).
bassa are already operating way outside Unite's rule book. See Rule 6 about lay officials, and rule 18 about workplace reps. Both insist on elections, at least every 24 months.
"6.5 The electoral period to hold lay office shall be two years unless otherwise provided
for under these rules."
Also, if you really want the anorak prize, go and read rule 17 about Branches. I attach a bit of it below. bassa are way out of these rules.
bassa's other leverage over mccluskey is malone's presence on untie's Executive Council.
Lizanne Malone Region 1 [London, Eastern & South East] Additional Women’s Rep
mccluskey will not want to be told by his executive council that he is not supporting one of the EC members....
By the way, note that malone is a Region 1 rep. Getting in as a Region 1 rep suggests that she's got some high quality contacts in untie. The Civil Aviation rep is Sean Beatty. (whoever)
Bits of rule 17
17.3 Branches shall have direct access to a proportion of membership subscriptions. Such a
proportion and access arrangements to be determined by the Executive Council, and
may be conditional on performed compliance with financial reporting requirements.
These funds may be used to meet the cost of administering the Branch; for recruitment
and other campaigns approved by the Executive Council; for local affiliations; to assist
members or their dependants who have suffered misfortune; or for any other worthy
cause, subject to any provisions elsewhere in these rules, and that no general
purposes funds shall be used for political objects. Any payments made in connection
with any form of industrial action must be made strictly in line with Executive Council
guidance applicable at the time.
17.4 All the property of the Branch including the books and other effects of the Branch, shall
be the property of the Union and shall, on request by the Executive Council, be
produced for inspection and audit. In the event of a closure, merger or dissolution of the
Branch, all property of the Branch shall be dealt with as directed by the Regional
Committee subject to the overall control of the Executive Council.
17.5 The Regional Committee shall be required to ensure that each Branch meets at regular
intervals and operates in accordance with the standing orders provided for in clause 10
of this rule. Where a Branch fails to convene an Annual General Meeting of all
22
members that Branch shall be suspended and members of the Branch shall be
allocated to a Branch which meets subject to the right of the Branch to appeal to the
Executive Council.
Whilst mccluskey wants Column inches in the media, unite will do little or nothing about bassa. He continues to want column inches in the media to keep up his influence/status/prestige within the Broad Left coalition. Their current campaign is about embarrasing the present Government. (It has nothing whatsoever to do with retaining jobs in the public sector.......believe that and you'll soon see flying pigs).
bassa are already operating way outside Unite's rule book. See Rule 6 about lay officials, and rule 18 about workplace reps. Both insist on elections, at least every 24 months.
"6.5 The electoral period to hold lay office shall be two years unless otherwise provided
for under these rules."
Also, if you really want the anorak prize, go and read rule 17 about Branches. I attach a bit of it below. bassa are way out of these rules.
bassa's other leverage over mccluskey is malone's presence on untie's Executive Council.
Lizanne Malone Region 1 [London, Eastern & South East] Additional Women’s Rep
mccluskey will not want to be told by his executive council that he is not supporting one of the EC members....
By the way, note that malone is a Region 1 rep. Getting in as a Region 1 rep suggests that she's got some high quality contacts in untie. The Civil Aviation rep is Sean Beatty. (whoever)
Bits of rule 17
17.3 Branches shall have direct access to a proportion of membership subscriptions. Such a
proportion and access arrangements to be determined by the Executive Council, and
may be conditional on performed compliance with financial reporting requirements.
These funds may be used to meet the cost of administering the Branch; for recruitment
and other campaigns approved by the Executive Council; for local affiliations; to assist
members or their dependants who have suffered misfortune; or for any other worthy
cause, subject to any provisions elsewhere in these rules, and that no general
purposes funds shall be used for political objects. Any payments made in connection
with any form of industrial action must be made strictly in line with Executive Council
guidance applicable at the time.
17.4 All the property of the Branch including the books and other effects of the Branch, shall
be the property of the Union and shall, on request by the Executive Council, be
produced for inspection and audit. In the event of a closure, merger or dissolution of the
Branch, all property of the Branch shall be dealt with as directed by the Regional
Committee subject to the overall control of the Executive Council.
17.5 The Regional Committee shall be required to ensure that each Branch meets at regular
intervals and operates in accordance with the standing orders provided for in clause 10
of this rule. Where a Branch fails to convene an Annual General Meeting of all
22
members that Branch shall be suspended and members of the Branch shall be
allocated to a Branch which meets subject to the right of the Branch to appeal to the
Executive Council.
Last edited by Ancient Observer; 30th Mar 2011 at 17:16. Reason: addition
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Thanks, AO ... perhaps the rest of the Planet should start flagging this sh1 t up to the Media?
There must be some Right Wing outfit that would appreciate some Mail on the subject?
There must be some Right Wing outfit that would appreciate some Mail on the subject?
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Dishing the dirt
Churchinchow re your request of the 28th re tribunal judgement:
Employment Tribunal Field Support Office
1st Floor
100 Southgate Street
Bury St Edmonds IP33 2AQ
Tel 0845 795 9775 to check current prices. You have to apply by post or in person.
Enjoy!!
Employment Tribunal Field Support Office
1st Floor
100 Southgate Street
Bury St Edmonds IP33 2AQ
Tel 0845 795 9775 to check current prices. You have to apply by post or in person.
Enjoy!!
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Hi LCD how's it going
There is a lot of discussion on the other thread about some vandalism on an aircraft that led to a number of dismissals.
If this was the one in Japan, from the information I got at the time there is absolutely no doubt it was a member of crew that was the culprit.
There is a lot of discussion on the other thread about some vandalism on an aircraft that led to a number of dismissals.
If this was the one in Japan, from the information I got at the time there is absolutely no doubt it was a member of crew that was the culprit.
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McCluskey has stated he is at the whim of the democratically elected Union/BASSA membership, and will only take action if they want it.
That is why the issue of access to the BASSA accounts, and challenging the electoral process is so important. It's a matter for BASSA members to bring about change from within; trouble is there doesn't seem to be anyone brave enough to stick their head above the parapet and risk the bullying and victimisation which would inevitably ensue. Can't say I blame them, really.
And the individual who most encapsulates BASSA has an "unfortunate event", not to say a mental breakdown, last night on another forum (he is alleged to be HUW):
CabinCrew.com: BASSA militant exposed!
This was my favourite bit, when I think the G&Ts really kicked in:
I had never heard the phrase "spineless masturbator" before; I will have to drop it into conversation, though one would think that if you masturbated a lot, being spineless might not be such a disadvantage 
That is why the issue of access to the BASSA accounts, and challenging the electoral process is so important. It's a matter for BASSA members to bring about change from within; trouble is there doesn't seem to be anyone brave enough to stick their head above the parapet and risk the bullying and victimisation which would inevitably ensue. Can't say I blame them, really.
I can't think of a single move made by BASSA in recent history that hasn't been self-destructive. It is an exceptional organisation in this respect. If BASSA were a person it would be diagnosed with a mental illness.
CabinCrew.com: BASSA militant exposed!
This was my favourite bit, when I think the G&Ts really kicked in:
Originally Posted by Hung_up-Wings/Holley
Yes you are a pilot you f**king knobhead - dont be trying to f**king hide - see a coward to the f**king end - you sh*thouse
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That Cabin Crew.com link has to be the most revealing insight into a man that is in need of some psychiatric treatment.
It is indicative of Holley who has no ability to hold any kind of conversation. His bitterness is truly illuminating and his angst is in the upper bracket of lost control. Sadly it also shows that BASSA as a whole is a lost cause.
The question has to be how long will Unite support BASSA - especially after a reps terrible use of 'KristalNacht' on Victoria Derbyshire's show yesterday. It suggested in the strongest terms that BASSA is anti-semitic.
It is indicative of Holley who has no ability to hold any kind of conversation. His bitterness is truly illuminating and his angst is in the upper bracket of lost control. Sadly it also shows that BASSA as a whole is a lost cause.
The question has to be how long will Unite support BASSA - especially after a reps terrible use of 'KristalNacht' on Victoria Derbyshire's show yesterday. It suggested in the strongest terms that BASSA is anti-semitic.
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Hi Westlakes I'm good thank you 
Due to take a BA flight soon so thourght I'd look in.
Some very entertaining stuff on here this evening courtesy of the other forum!!
Anyway I'm off to Vegas soon a new MF route. Any comments from those of you who might have been on an MFflight?
Due to take a BA flight soon so thourght I'd look in.
Some very entertaining stuff on here this evening courtesy of the other forum!!
Anyway I'm off to Vegas soon a new MF route. Any comments from those of you who might have been on an MFflight?
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That thread is proof, not that it was required, that there is absolutely no prospect of a settlement whilst he is calling the shots at BASSA.
Imagine what he must be like in meetings!
Imagine what he must be like in meetings!
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Um... without wishing to pour cold water on anyone, the cabincrew forum is, like Pprune, populated by posts from individuals operating under pseudonyms. There is absolutely nothing to say that the individual who clearly lost it in spades on the thread in question was Mr Holley, although various members on that forum seem to have suggested otherwise. It is pure speculation.
That said, the outburst by the individual in question was completely out of order. Had it taken place on Pprune I feel certain that the mods would not only have pulled the posts, but also pulled the plug on the id that posted them. Clearly the OP in the thread touched a very raw nerve for someone. Given the anonymity of forums I did wonder if the individual who went into such a public tirade of abuse might have been closely related to the people in the article.
That said, the outburst by the individual in question was completely out of order. Had it taken place on Pprune I feel certain that the mods would not only have pulled the posts, but also pulled the plug on the id that posted them. Clearly the OP in the thread touched a very raw nerve for someone. Given the anonymity of forums I did wonder if the individual who went into such a public tirade of abuse might have been closely related to the people in the article.
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Yes, that Kristallnacht thing might even prove to be a tipping point. There can't be many of the 5700 YES voters who don't find it reprehensible.
So they throw around phrases like Kristallnacht or use images of Iwo Jima because they think it makes them look wordly and wise, without realising how deeply offensive it is to link those events with an industrial dispute that can be summed with in the phrase "too posh to push."
Last edited by Lord Bracken; 31st Mar 2011 at 08:42.