BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV
But on the other side we have BA fawning over Mixed Fleet crew .....positioning their desks right in the middle of the report centre almost as though on purpose.
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I believe that pprune prefer us to refer to a post number rather than clipping out, not even complete a sentence, and run the risk of changing its meaning!!
Last edited by Betty girl; 5th Mar 2011 at 10:18.
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My view is my view and as I actually, WORK for BA and am actually a cabin crew member, my view is actually more valid than yours.
I actually feel I am VERY consistent in all my views. I am pro BA and anti Bassa but I believe in people debating in a fair and reasoned manner, whoever they debate with and not tarring any particular set of workers as if we are all bad or all good.
With that I will leave you but please feel free to disregard anything I say if you don't like it. I won't be upset!
I actually feel I am VERY consistent in all my views. I am pro BA and anti Bassa but I believe in people debating in a fair and reasoned manner, whoever they debate with and not tarring any particular set of workers as if we are all bad or all good.
With that I will leave you but please feel free to disregard anything I say if you don't like it. I won't be upset!
Betty Girl
If it's my post you are referring to then I am replying to your post #800, in part:
Not sure why you think any editing changes the logic but just to be clear my comment about the positioning of the desks stands. For completeness I don't have an opinion on the hats - though I have to wear a uniform hat/cap myself.
Regards
If it's my post you are referring to then I am replying to your post #800, in part:
But on the other side we have BA fawning over Mixed Fleet crew putting them in a hat and positioning their desks right in the middle of the report centre almost as though on purpose.
Regards
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When in reality we are mostly ALL, a good bunch of hard working people and the vast majority of us LOVE BA and love our job and are just a bit scared of all this change.
There is a way to make sure this doesn't happen again. Get rid of them!
But as far as I can see, there is a real fear of the consequences of daring to challenge Holley and his fawning cohorts.
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For the record, I think Betty girl has indeed examined the evidence presented to her here and elsewhere and exercised independent (as well balanced) commentary on this whole affair.
However her incorrect use of its/it's (exemplified above!) is still of some considerable concern to me
I dread to think what is posted on the BASSA forum, and anyone sourcing their views from that site is bound to have a completely different and twisted perspective, given the snippets we see posted by the BASSA forum lice.
It is clear that BASSA is now in its death throes, with a bankrupt argument and indeed has used intimidation (viz. outing non-striking crew members.VCC) throughout this dispute to misinform (viz. "planes parked at Shannon) and mislead (viz. staff travel "back in five mins) its membership.
Might I suggest that the positioning of the MF crew report desks et al. is entirely subsidiary to the pressing matters of:
1. what the mood of crew is now that yet another ballot has been launched. Are people fed up, and following DH's demand to leave BASSA?
2. whether or not this strike is connected to previous actions, and how an unprotected action will affect BASSA's ability to garner support. Are crew generally aware that unprotected action means they can be dismissed with minimal compensation?
3. why there seems minimal interest in accessing the BASSA accounts?
4. whether the "show of hands" at a sparsely attended meeting is sufficient for BASSA's officers to remain in post, some drawing a considerable £50k+ annual stipend?
5. whether BA's pending legal challenge could render Unite liable for the cost of the strikes to date?
However her incorrect use of its/it's (exemplified above!) is still of some considerable concern to me
I dread to think what is posted on the BASSA forum, and anyone sourcing their views from that site is bound to have a completely different and twisted perspective, given the snippets we see posted by the BASSA forum lice.
It is clear that BASSA is now in its death throes, with a bankrupt argument and indeed has used intimidation (viz. outing non-striking crew members.VCC) throughout this dispute to misinform (viz. "planes parked at Shannon) and mislead (viz. staff travel "back in five mins) its membership.
Might I suggest that the positioning of the MF crew report desks et al. is entirely subsidiary to the pressing matters of:
1. what the mood of crew is now that yet another ballot has been launched. Are people fed up, and following DH's demand to leave BASSA?
2. whether or not this strike is connected to previous actions, and how an unprotected action will affect BASSA's ability to garner support. Are crew generally aware that unprotected action means they can be dismissed with minimal compensation?
3. why there seems minimal interest in accessing the BASSA accounts?
4. whether the "show of hands" at a sparsely attended meeting is sufficient for BASSA's officers to remain in post, some drawing a considerable £50k+ annual stipend?
5. whether BA's pending legal challenge could render Unite liable for the cost of the strikes to date?
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Sorry Litebulbs, I did not see the irony in your post, I do now.
I was surprised by it because I took it literally by mistake!!!!
VK. I have corrected the 'its' and given myself a telling off for letting you down!!!
I was surprised by it because I took it literally by mistake!!!!
VK. I have corrected the 'its' and given myself a telling off for letting you down!!!
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Snas
There is a problem with that reasoning. Many people have urged BA cabin crew to leave Bassa and many have. Who is their voice now? There are many anti Bassa, pro BA cabin crew who post on here, but it does appear that whenever they give opinions that point out flaws in service or general working conditions, the mob
turn on them.
turn on them.
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"mob??". Quite an overstatement...much as Betty Girl's reference to people here smearing "all" cabin crew. That simply is not the case in general.
As for this statement:
This is a forum for self loading freight but we are not simple-minded individuals. Validity does not come from mere employment, it comes with reason and insight. Crew can for the most part provide insight to SLF, but as we have seen for the length of this dispute they do not always provide reason.
As for the continuous jabs at Mixed Fleet and the customer reviews of their experience...its starting to look a bit childish. If Mixed Fleet fail to provide a servicable product I'm sure that we will all experience or hear of those failures however I'm not going to feel guilty or anti-legacy crew simply because for the time being all reports that I have received seem to be of a very positive nature.
The legacy crews should be able to stand on their own service and say "Watch us set the high standards youngsters and try to catch up"...Hopefully the end result of this dispute will allow more of that attitude to prevail.
As for this statement:
My view is my view and as I actually, WORK for BA and am actually a cabin crew member, my view is actually more valid than yours.
As for the continuous jabs at Mixed Fleet and the customer reviews of their experience...its starting to look a bit childish. If Mixed Fleet fail to provide a servicable product I'm sure that we will all experience or hear of those failures however I'm not going to feel guilty or anti-legacy crew simply because for the time being all reports that I have received seem to be of a very positive nature.
The legacy crews should be able to stand on their own service and say "Watch us set the high standards youngsters and try to catch up"...Hopefully the end result of this dispute will allow more of that attitude to prevail.
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Diplome
Is mob as much an overstatement as BASSAmentalists? We all have views on this issue and there are no absolutes. Most see this from one perspective on this site and no doubt the same but opposite position is held on others.
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Betty Girl - Post 800
I'm sure I'm not alone in admiring the way you staunchly defend the professionalism of your CC peers and explain many aspects of a job that aren't necessarily apparent to passengers.
The situation you are in is probably appreciated more than you think. Your willingness to post on here and fend off the brickbats thrown around is all in your favour and long may it continue.
You say there are 14000 of you and only a few post on this thread. I don't doubt that. There are still some 5700 willing to vote for pointless and self-defeating industrial action and I suspect that many of the comments you feel are directed at you and your colleagues as a whole, are actually meant for and about that significant and influential minority. Incredibly 9000 or so remain paying members of BASSA. Incredible. Why?
I agree with you about what seems to be deliberate MF desk placement but also with VK about its relative importance in the long term. It seems pretty obvious that the desk is placed to make a point about the fact that MF is here to stay. Hats are to help to differentiate between MF and the 'rest' (hats look smart - I've always liked a hat). The 'rest' get paid more and have better routes but are probably actually less effective in terms of productive output because of the many silly working agreements that they observe. BA are raising the profile of MF to help make sure the new people have pride in what they do - they want them to stay despite the inequalities. It's not a snub to you but the opposite to MF crew. It can be one thing without being the other.
As for Club service. You need to be telling your manager about these things and promoting yourself as an agent for imaginative change if there is a real problem with it - hang on, I suspect anything you did say would be mangled by the union approval process and then strangled before seeing the light of day by the very same self-serving parasites that run it! How about a new thread - 'Improving Service For Our Customers In Club - how can we help?'
May the force be with you.
The situation you are in is probably appreciated more than you think. Your willingness to post on here and fend off the brickbats thrown around is all in your favour and long may it continue.
You say there are 14000 of you and only a few post on this thread. I don't doubt that. There are still some 5700 willing to vote for pointless and self-defeating industrial action and I suspect that many of the comments you feel are directed at you and your colleagues as a whole, are actually meant for and about that significant and influential minority. Incredibly 9000 or so remain paying members of BASSA. Incredible. Why?
I agree with you about what seems to be deliberate MF desk placement but also with VK about its relative importance in the long term. It seems pretty obvious that the desk is placed to make a point about the fact that MF is here to stay. Hats are to help to differentiate between MF and the 'rest' (hats look smart - I've always liked a hat). The 'rest' get paid more and have better routes but are probably actually less effective in terms of productive output because of the many silly working agreements that they observe. BA are raising the profile of MF to help make sure the new people have pride in what they do - they want them to stay despite the inequalities. It's not a snub to you but the opposite to MF crew. It can be one thing without being the other.
As for Club service. You need to be telling your manager about these things and promoting yourself as an agent for imaginative change if there is a real problem with it - hang on, I suspect anything you did say would be mangled by the union approval process and then strangled before seeing the light of day by the very same self-serving parasites that run it! How about a new thread - 'Improving Service For Our Customers In Club - how can we help?'
May the force be with you.
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Diplome,
You know very well that that snippet that you highlighted was directly in response to Litebulbs post and not directed at SLF in general.
As for the ALL, some posters do tar ALL cabin crew with the same brush and some are more balanced, that is ALL that, that ALL was referring to.
Once again we have people selectively posting clips of what people write and twisting it to make a completely different point.
I post on hear to explain things to people from a cabin crew point of view when I read something that may be misleading, that all.
You know very well that that snippet that you highlighted was directly in response to Litebulbs post and not directed at SLF in general.
As for the ALL, some posters do tar ALL cabin crew with the same brush and some are more balanced, that is ALL that, that ALL was referring to.
Once again we have people selectively posting clips of what people write and twisting it to make a completely different point.
I post on hear to explain things to people from a cabin crew point of view when I read something that may be misleading, that all.
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Thanks Mrpony,
I understand what you are saying and I do understand why the company is doing what it is doing with Mixed Fleet but all I was saying is that it COULD have been done in a better and more conciliatory way, than it has been.
Even though I do understand, why what has happened, has happened, it does affect me when I see a Mixed Fleet crew wearing the hats and I don't expect any of you to understand why because it is purely an emotional feeling from someone who has always been a loyal and dedicated employee. It makes me feel unvalued and unwanted by an employer that I have worked for for 22 years. I know that they probably do value me but it is just the effect it has on me and I don't know how to explain it to you because I don't think it would be easy for you to understand, unless you were in my shoes. I don't even blame BA as I feel Bassa have blindly led us all down this path.
As for the Club World service, there are many, many good CSDs on Worldwide and now CSMs on Mixed Fleet and I am sure that they do feed back to the company how they feel about the service, remember I am on E/F. I am sure that improvements will be made, in time. BA's a huge juggernaut and it takes time and money to alter things but our new head of department is very into customer service and I expect big changes are just around the corner.
I do feel the tide is changing and I hear daily crew telling me they are going to leave Bassa as they have lost faith in what they say anymore but ,YES, there is still a core group that still 'Keep the faith' but they are daily becoming more irrelevant.
Thank you for your support though.
These are my own views and I don't speak for BA
I understand what you are saying and I do understand why the company is doing what it is doing with Mixed Fleet but all I was saying is that it COULD have been done in a better and more conciliatory way, than it has been.
Even though I do understand, why what has happened, has happened, it does affect me when I see a Mixed Fleet crew wearing the hats and I don't expect any of you to understand why because it is purely an emotional feeling from someone who has always been a loyal and dedicated employee. It makes me feel unvalued and unwanted by an employer that I have worked for for 22 years. I know that they probably do value me but it is just the effect it has on me and I don't know how to explain it to you because I don't think it would be easy for you to understand, unless you were in my shoes. I don't even blame BA as I feel Bassa have blindly led us all down this path.
As for the Club World service, there are many, many good CSDs on Worldwide and now CSMs on Mixed Fleet and I am sure that they do feed back to the company how they feel about the service, remember I am on E/F. I am sure that improvements will be made, in time. BA's a huge juggernaut and it takes time and money to alter things but our new head of department is very into customer service and I expect big changes are just around the corner.
I do feel the tide is changing and I hear daily crew telling me they are going to leave Bassa as they have lost faith in what they say anymore but ,YES, there is still a core group that still 'Keep the faith' but they are daily becoming more irrelevant.
Thank you for your support though.
These are my own views and I don't speak for BA
Last edited by Betty girl; 5th Mar 2011 at 12:40.
MF Fleet
Just returned pax in Club from MF crewed Lhr/Den/Lhr, a few observations.
Crew all very friendly and smartly turned out with the new uniform.
On way out service a bit slow, inexperience showed, but would only be noticeable by experienced BA travellers. Service completed in well under the 3 hours sometimes quoted on this thread.
On way back excellent sector in all respects. One VCC on recency probably helped overall on return flight.
Regarding the pay etc. chatted to ex Ezy lady who said money not brilliant but BA lifestyle/routes/aircraft etc. sure beats the hell out of continuous 4 or more sectors a day around Europe in her previous life!!
Plenty of her friends queing for interview with BA.
Crew all very friendly and smartly turned out with the new uniform.
On way out service a bit slow, inexperience showed, but would only be noticeable by experienced BA travellers. Service completed in well under the 3 hours sometimes quoted on this thread.
On way back excellent sector in all respects. One VCC on recency probably helped overall on return flight.
Regarding the pay etc. chatted to ex Ezy lady who said money not brilliant but BA lifestyle/routes/aircraft etc. sure beats the hell out of continuous 4 or more sectors a day around Europe in her previous life!!
Plenty of her friends queing for interview with BA.
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An old friend
Has just started with MF. We haven't spoken directly yet, but she has flown for other longhaul carriers before, so doesn't really fit into the school leaver/see the world demographic. She definitely does not look like Hattie Jacques in the pictures I have seen; it must be the Hattie
.
I am hoping she enjoys it.
.I am hoping she enjoys it.
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Betty Girl
I am certain BA 'value' you as a loyal long-term employee who gets great results. Many businesses use a cost per person measure as a crude way of gauging a different horrid real-world capitalist value of people, all other things being equal which they never are. I'm certain BA has its own version.
I'm no expert but I would guess the difference in cost per person between MF crew and the 'others' to be between 20000 and 30000 annually at LHR when everything is taken into account.
So when you say you don't feel valued try putting yourself in the shoes of BA's management who value you so much that they are willing to keep paying you a good whack for a job with a great pension that costs a packet to fund. There aren't many employees that would get that sort of treatment in this country at the moment. And that's despite the fact what you have ended up with is worse than it would have been had BASSA simply rolled over and done nothing more than agree with most of BA's proposals and got some say in MF as well as shares and so on. So glad to hear many CC are 'losing the faith', although I prefer to think of them as having had an exorcism.
You are caught in the crossfire and for that you have my sympathy.
I'm no expert but I would guess the difference in cost per person between MF crew and the 'others' to be between 20000 and 30000 annually at LHR when everything is taken into account.
So when you say you don't feel valued try putting yourself in the shoes of BA's management who value you so much that they are willing to keep paying you a good whack for a job with a great pension that costs a packet to fund. There aren't many employees that would get that sort of treatment in this country at the moment. And that's despite the fact what you have ended up with is worse than it would have been had BASSA simply rolled over and done nothing more than agree with most of BA's proposals and got some say in MF as well as shares and so on. So glad to hear many CC are 'losing the faith', although I prefer to think of them as having had an exorcism.
You are caught in the crossfire and for that you have my sympathy.
