BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV
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Betty Girl
I am sorry that my posts have given you a problem reading them. I will in the future change the font and the size of the type. I definitely want you to be able to read them as you are one of the voices of reason on the forum. Let me know if this is better for you.
Oh, I hope you were able to read my last post as it is primarily about you and OG. They look fine on my big monitor but let me know what looks good to you.
Oh, I hope you were able to read my last post as it is primarily about you and OG. They look fine on my big monitor but let me know what looks good to you.
You no longer need actual strikes to pressure the company - ballots can have the same effect, since they carry the threat of strikes. It would now appear that a simple, well-placed cross on the ballot paper removes some of the need to actually lose money and stand on picket lines
I recall DH being vitriolic about such people in the past, calling them "beneath contempt". So keeping the faith now requires an entire union to ignore strike ballots and work, and thus be "beneath contempt"?
Surely, even the most diehard BASSA members must see through such nonsense
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Time to manage this nonsense out of the business methinks. The 90 day change of Ts and Cs is not unknown in the real world. I think the company have been patient enough with this stroppy bunch of spoiled and sulking brats.
Don't let the door hit you on the a*** as you leave then.
Don't let the door hit you on the a*** as you leave then.
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You no longer need actual strikes to pressure the company - ballots can have the same effect, since they carry the threat of strikes. It would now appear that a simple, well-placed cross on the ballot paper removes some of the need to actually lose money and stand on picket lines...every time a ballot is announced it has the same effect as going on strike. The continued uncertainty keeps passengers away in their droves
Now, as a bit of a traditionalist I still subscribe to the theory that when bluffing, it's best not to let on. I guess he hasn't read 'Poker for Dummies'.
I also like the bit where he said it was now about "sending a message". That's an interesting new development isn't it? Not.
Will they injunct us again on our next one?
...instead of all this being settled long ago, their unimaginative and belligerent approach means our dispute is now entering its second summer. The ongoing uncertainty will now sadly continue..Oh, and by the way, this time it will have even more items on it. We will of course need to cover yet more breaches of our agreements that have taken place; they may have thought they had gotten away with those, but they haven’t.
...instead of all this being settled long ago, their unimaginative and belligerent approach means our dispute is now entering its second summer. The ongoing uncertainty will now sadly continue..Oh, and by the way, this time it will have even more items on it. We will of course need to cover yet more breaches of our agreements that have taken place; they may have thought they had gotten away with those, but they haven’t.
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mrpony - DH - (Don't stand for De Havilland no more ......)
Quite feasible, the effect of his actions on the BASSA membership has no relevance to him in his struggle/war against BA, financially he is copperbottomed with his BA pension, possible percentage of subscriptions, and the ability to collect his BASSA pension at the end of the year.
He only has one objective, to bring BA to heel, as it used to be, so that BASSA can control BA's operations, and in passing get rid of Willy Walsh et al. - Meglomania!! - members? - who/what are they?
He only has one objective, to bring BA to heel, as it used to be, so that BASSA can control BA's operations, and in passing get rid of Willy Walsh et al. - Meglomania!! - members? - who/what are they?
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On the other thread Betty girl said
In my opinion that would be a mistake._ BA has kept its cool - made memorable by the calm and untroubled demeanour and body-language of Willie Walsh when he was surrounded in a lobby by a mob of left wing activists._ As I see it, BA are content for Heritage/Legacy/First CC to stay until they reach retirement age on substantially the same T&Cs as they are now._ When I say "substantially" I mean no-one can predict the future - would you believe Icelandic volcanoes becoming more active?_ Given time H/L/F CC will see that they are the "Preserved Cabin Crew" and allowed with respect to remain for as long as they like._ The replacing of retiring CC and the need for extra CC because of extra routes will be catered for by the expansion of Mixed Fleet._ It will take time, but enough of Cabin Crew will see and understand._ They who want the Revised-Final-Offer should be allowed to have it, and they who prefer not to sign should not be disturbed.
. . and give us 90 days to sign or leave, similar to what the London Fire Brigade was going to do.
Well in my opinion the time has come.
Well in my opinion the time has come.
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You might be right notlangley, just a bit fed up and the thought of this dragging on and on and on and on.......... has driven me to be open to any solution, as long as this madness ends!!!!
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Whilst I can see the appeal of the 90 day route, not least because it could have ended this 18 months ago, the response if Unite and crew is an unknown. I expect Unite would try to seek an injunction. I also fear that some of the more cavalier elements of BASSA would discourage crew from signing with assurances that everything will be OK...
What is also worrying is that anything other than a strike ballot paper seems to be greeted with apathy by crew.
What is also worrying is that anything other than a strike ballot paper seems to be greeted with apathy by crew.
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let's not forget....
in case anyone (read BASSA) needs reminding of the fragile state of the airline industry, BBC are today reporting an expected $6 billion drop in airline earnings in 2011, through increases in the oil price.
Not only that, they expect most of the profits to come from Asia.. not good for european legacy airlines, costs still need to be trimmed people...
BBC News - Airline profits to fall as fuel costs rise, says Iata
Not only that, they expect most of the profits to come from Asia.. not good for european legacy airlines, costs still need to be trimmed people...
BBC News - Airline profits to fall as fuel costs rise, says Iata
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I expect Unite would try to seek an injunction.
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That 'right of access' does, according to that CC Thread post, include 'former members' ... which could provide an interesting opportunity for those who have left the Union, and indeed BA, to see the records without fear of subsequent harassment at the workplace [not that anything like that could possibly happen, of course].
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Going back to this "BASSA Limited" thingie. One suggestion for the move to a limited company is to try and prevent them getting royally shafted by any lawsuit by BA over losses because of the screwed up strikes.
Now, this is where my mind gets working. Surely the "limited company" would be irrelevant as BASSA is part of UNITE so any damages would have to come from UNITE itself (they do sanction the IA, don't they)?
Of course, that would apply IF BASSA were to remain a part of UNITE. Could there be plans afoot to either have BASSA kicked out to "save" UNITE or are BASSA planning to break away from UNITE because UNITE are starting to see the light and are saying things the BASSA hierarchy don't exactly want to hear.............
Now, this is where my mind gets working. Surely the "limited company" would be irrelevant as BASSA is part of UNITE so any damages would have to come from UNITE itself (they do sanction the IA, don't they)?
Of course, that would apply IF BASSA were to remain a part of UNITE. Could there be plans afoot to either have BASSA kicked out to "save" UNITE or are BASSA planning to break away from UNITE because UNITE are starting to see the light and are saying things the BASSA hierarchy don't exactly want to hear.............
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TRADE UNION FUNDS AND ACCOUNTING RECORDS
http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore...accounting.pdf
DISQUALIFICATION OF TRADE UNION LEADERS
failing to supply a copy of union rules, failing to keep proper accounting records and to provide access to those records, and failing to provide the Certification Officer with an annual return relating to its affairs (section 45(1) of the 1992 Act);
http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore...accounting.pdf
DISQUALIFICATION OF TRADE UNION LEADERS
failing to supply a copy of union rules, failing to keep proper accounting records and to provide access to those records, and failing to provide the Certification Officer with an annual return relating to its affairs (section 45(1) of the 1992 Act);
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TU liabilities ..
MrBernoulli on the other thread has posted some very definitive outlines to the controlling TU legislation, which are well worth reading.
One area that does need unravelling is what were BASSA before they joined Unite, (presumably an independant trade union), and on what terms did they join, because even as only a branch of Unite, they still behave in the manner of an independant and Unite appear to treat them as such.
a. BASSA can call strike dates.
b. BASSA can refuse offers from BA, even if Unite say accept.
c. BASSA can add items to a dispute list.
d. Only BASSA can call off a strike.
e. BASSA is needed to agree to finish a dispute.
f. BASSA can change/amend their regulations without Unite approval.
So does anyone reading on here know the BASSA history? - or is it
One area that does need unravelling is what were BASSA before they joined Unite, (presumably an independant trade union), and on what terms did they join, because even as only a branch of Unite, they still behave in the manner of an independant and Unite appear to treat them as such.
a. BASSA can call strike dates.
b. BASSA can refuse offers from BA, even if Unite say accept.
c. BASSA can add items to a dispute list.
d. Only BASSA can call off a strike.
e. BASSA is needed to agree to finish a dispute.
f. BASSA can change/amend their regulations without Unite approval.
So does anyone reading on here know the BASSA history? - or is it
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Service with a smile
I have checked in here tonight to see where this dispute has now got to, the lack of press coverage gives the impression that it is all long since settled.
Having caught up I am deeply disappointed that the promised IA will not now be taking place this month. I will be travelling Club to Rio this week and was really looking forward to a repeat of the 3 LH flights I flew during IA last year. The atmosphere was superb, the crew numbers were down but the VCC were well supported and the service was great.
The problem for the PAX perspective is not knowing who you are dealing with, in a crew of 12 on a 744 statistics say there could be 4 - 5 of the destructive eelement. Usually you can spot them but of course you just never know for certain. Speaking personally and being so disgusted with the beahviour of this union and the damage this mentality has done to this country I have no desire to engage.
I apologise in advance, to those CC that support BA, for appearing as a surly, uncommunicative PAX but it is because I dont know which side of the fence you are on.
I support the notion of the identifying tags as it helps solve this problem.
BA now need to lance this boil in fact it seems to have become more like a small spot. They have been more than patient, nobody will now forgive them for pressing the nuke button.
The requirement to present a new ballot as being unconnected to the original dispute is clearly unachievable, on this basis it seems unlikley that UNITE will ever be able to execute a ballot resulting in protected IA. DH is making the noises that the effect of repeated fake ballots will cause the same damage. Did his mother really never read him the "boy who cried wolf" fable.
Very amusing to hear that he is a failed BA pilot applicant - very funny indeed and explains an awful lot.
I would be amazed if BA put up with this for very long now.
For those Non strikers on Rio on Thursday I thank you in advance for the commitment and courage in the face of these bullys, it is appreciated even if it will be hard to show it.
Having caught up I am deeply disappointed that the promised IA will not now be taking place this month. I will be travelling Club to Rio this week and was really looking forward to a repeat of the 3 LH flights I flew during IA last year. The atmosphere was superb, the crew numbers were down but the VCC were well supported and the service was great.
The problem for the PAX perspective is not knowing who you are dealing with, in a crew of 12 on a 744 statistics say there could be 4 - 5 of the destructive eelement. Usually you can spot them but of course you just never know for certain. Speaking personally and being so disgusted with the beahviour of this union and the damage this mentality has done to this country I have no desire to engage.
I apologise in advance, to those CC that support BA, for appearing as a surly, uncommunicative PAX but it is because I dont know which side of the fence you are on.
I support the notion of the identifying tags as it helps solve this problem.
BA now need to lance this boil in fact it seems to have become more like a small spot. They have been more than patient, nobody will now forgive them for pressing the nuke button.
The requirement to present a new ballot as being unconnected to the original dispute is clearly unachievable, on this basis it seems unlikley that UNITE will ever be able to execute a ballot resulting in protected IA. DH is making the noises that the effect of repeated fake ballots will cause the same damage. Did his mother really never read him the "boy who cried wolf" fable.
Very amusing to hear that he is a failed BA pilot applicant - very funny indeed and explains an awful lot.
I would be amazed if BA put up with this for very long now.
For those Non strikers on Rio on Thursday I thank you in advance for the commitment and courage in the face of these bullys, it is appreciated even if it will be hard to show it.
