BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV

[Papillon]

And yet you happily write "debt" which came into English via the French "dete" as "det" without the "b", and which was artificially inserted for no good reason in the 18th century to make it look more like the original Latin.

Talking about correct when it comes to using a "z" or an "s" is a foolish enterprise, because different words have different roots and to be strictly etymologically accurate you would have to vary depending on word. Either can be used because either are correct.

And yes, Joao, I know you were - but I didn't refer to either, I talked about the use of Latin rules in grammar as it pertains to English.

[Roccoreid]

Just in case the above post was meant as a joke.

As a serving officer of Her Majesties Royal Navy, defending the nation and destroying HM The Queens enemies by attending meetings and writing emails I would never use such crude language.

Back on track.

It seems to me that Unite and BASSA are now goading BA, it's as if they want to be taken to court. They want to feed their victim complex some more.

However I suspect that BA are holding off with Unite because they know that they need them for the interaction with the other parts of their workforce. If I were a Unite member I would be worried that Len and his lot seem hell bent on dragging the union in to a mess it can't get out of.

[fincastle84]

Joao de Silva & Papillon

This is a very severe case of thread drift. I hope that before I fall asleep through boredom you are able to return to the Bassa v BA dispute.

[Tigger4Me]

Baggersup

Wonder who wrote the ad. Do Unite employ an advertising agency? Serious question.

According to Marketing Magazine the ad was prepared "in-house." At least when the law suits start flying they can't blame anyone but themselves... Can they?

Link

[MPN11]

Originally Posted by roocoreid

If I were a Unite member I would be worried that Len and his lot seem hell bent on dragging the union in to a mess it can't get out of.

The words "Docks" and "Liverpool" come to mind.

I see a complete detachment [c.f. Scargill, 'Red Robbo', Bob Crow and many others] between the interests of the 'workers' and the maintenance of the 'Class War'. There is still a deeply-rooted mind-set in some of the Union oligarchy that believes it can change the Nation though the efforts of the proletariat. Accordingly, IMO, they continue to manipulate with no genuine interest in what happens to the workers per se ... just that the 'inevitable march to a workers' society' is the only desirable cause, and the workers are the cannon fodder in that cause.

Either that, or they're just money grabbing, dishonest, untrustworthy, morons who are only in the game for self-interest.

[Joao da Silva]

This is a very severe case of thread drift. I hope that before I fall asleep through boredom you are able to return to the Bassa v BA dispute.

As the whole BASSA IR is thread drift itself, I don't see the problem with a little deviation into an interesting area.

Thanks, Papillon, for your lucid comments.

[TightSlot]

Back on topic please

[Joao da Silva]

Tightslot

I think that thread drift had ended.

However, this thread has been dominating the forum for over a year now and, speaking frankly, it is affecting what used to be a very good forum.

If you analyse the postings and topics, this is hogging the limelight and squeezing out some more interesting content, as least as far as I am concerned. There is a place for such a topic, but if you look at the media coverage, it is getting hardly any these days, the reason being it is past it's sell by date, as are as the editors are concerned.

Still, if you are happy to preside over a forum that seems to cater for a realtively small core of members, then it is your bat and ball.

[MPN11]

@ Joao ... hardly dominating.

And as the British, and BA passengers, have a keen interest in the subject that's not unreasonable. You may not, and nobody forces you to read it.

[Joao da Silva]

MPN11

I have not done any statistical analysis on the number of posts v other threads, but my impression is that this thread is dominating, however you may be right.

Actually, I am a BA regular and am interested in what is happening, but the reality is not a lot at present; maybe there will be some more news in the future.

[TightSlot]

Originally Posted by Joao da Silva

Still, if you are happy to preside over a forum that seems to cater for a realtively small core of members, then it is your bat and ball.

No.. I'm not really happy. I loathe this thread, and the whole situation behind it with a passion - reading it and moderating it is a chore - as, for that matter, is the CC Forum thread. The conversation on both threads has become largely self-sustaining - a platform for egos and entrenched opinions. Few of the contributors have changed their position one jot since the beginning of the dispute.

However, I'm not here to dictate what should and should not interest people, however regrettable that may be. As long as people wish to discuss the topic, then they should be able to do so. The moderation on this thread has deliberately been very relaxed for a long time, in recognition of the restrictions on non-airline staff in the CC forum. Any thread that drifts off topic into the wonders of spelling/grammar will get yanked back by the mod in any of the forums.

I don't accept that this thread is driving content away - in fact it is generating traffic to the forum. This forum remains unique on the internet as being a place where passengers can ask questions about the industry of those who actually work in it, as well as the day to day advice that is passed between contributors on a variety of subjects.

I have to say that your post made me a bit cross - It's bad enough having to deal with this stuff daily - Now I'm being criticised for allowing it to happen? Gee but it's hard to win with you guys. As with your TV, there is an OFF button, or you can change channels. If you're unhappy, take a break for a while and come back at another time

[Joao da Silva]

I have to say that your post made me a bit cross - It's bad enough having to deal with this stuff daily - Now I'm being criticised for allowing it to happen?

Please read my words again and you will see that no criticism is contained.

Still, if you are happy to preside over a forum that seems to cater for a realtively small core of members, then it is your bat and ball.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a snide comment, just an observation from my perspective about your empowerment as moderator and as you have said

I don't accept that this thread is driving content away - in fact it is generating traffic to the forum.

So, not much more to say?

I will be taking a break, as there are other fora which are more interesting at the moment, but maybe I'll be back later, to have a look.

Have safe travels.

[TrakBall]

Thanks

TightSlot

As an occasional poster and full time lurker on both this and the CC thread, let me say thank you for your efforts. I read these threads because I am fascinated by the union/management interplay as well as the psychology and thinking of both sides of these issues. I cannot say I know what it takes to moderate this thread and I am sure I would underestimate the effort required in any event. I just wanted you to know that I, and I am sure many of the people who post and read this thread appreciate your efforts.

TrakBall

[Landroger]

Tightslot

Trakball wrote;

As an occasional poster and full time lurker on both this and the CC thread, let me say thank you for your efforts.

May I echo Trakball's thanks to you and your fellow mods for the work you do on this and other forums? (fora?) I will admit to being unused at first, to the level of moderation on PPRuNe compared to my, shall we say 'home' forum. However, over the months and years I have been following this and the CC thread, I have seen just what a professional and even handed job you do.

Thank you again for keeping both these turbulent threads on the island.

Roger.

[pcat160]

Strike

I was thinking of a rather long post to establish the background for my thoughts. I have however decided to make it short. Let’s assume there is another vote for IA and the overwhelming percentage of returned ballots favor IA. Now let’s also assume that BA has suggested there may be a problem which would make the strike unprotected, real or imagined. BASSA/Unite Pronounce that Staff Travel will be restored in five minutes. How many will strike?

[ChicoG]

However, this thread has been dominating the forum for over a year now and, speaking frankly, it is affecting what used to be a very good forum.

Speaking subjectively I think you mean.

I don't think this thread will die until Holley quits or gets pushed and BASSA get real and stop using their members as pawns.

But quite why you think it is "affecting a forum" I have no idea. It's a thread on a discussion board, nothing more, nothing less.

[notlangley]

strike action must be over different reasons than any previous strike

There are three things I would like to see

1) The accounts of BAASA.
2) The official report by the Electoral Reform Service on the latest industrial action ballot.
3) An impeccable record of certain words made by Len McCluskey after he had announced that there would be another ballot in ten days time._ The words that I would like to have are his original, unedited and unbowdlerised words on his reading a few hours later that BASSA have published in the Daily Mail

Find out why this dispute is now in its third year

[mrpony]

Dorkan spouts forth

This copied from the CC thread:

Just some personal observations from me -

There is no way in this country any union could conduct a ballot that is 100% safe - it simply isn't possible.
Whereas before, judges when looking at injunctions would accept a margin of error, that is increasingly becoming a thing of the past. Blame the political hold on the judiciary for this, not the unions.

Even though legal advice taken following BA's letter to the ERBS seriously cast doubt on BA being successful in the High Court there was enough grey area to make it sensible to reballot. Another month of uncertainty hurts BA more than us.

An example of how ludicrous things are becoming - One of the problems surrounded a website report back from Amicus's branch meeting, held a week before the ballot closed, which said how the membership reiterated their opinion that any overall settlement must include the initial crew complement imposition. I gather BA insisted that this "report back" from a meeting had tainted the ballot (as if) and crew would now believe they were voting on crew complements. As we have already had a strike on this issue then the 12 week protection period would be exhausted and going out again BA would be able to dismiss instantly claiming the strike was continuous. Extremely tenuous I know and also highly debateable but BA are exploiting every loophole - so much so it is dangerous to even report back what members say at branch meetings.

What now? Well we said it will be a war of attrition and that is what it has become. Keep voting yes, keep the faith and keep going.



I don''t know where to start with this. I'm sure someone will dissect it.

[MPN11]

Dissected as follows ...

1. The Judiciary are corrupt because they don't agree with us.

2. Amicus have re-introduced a continuation dispute factor, even though that was previously rejected by the High Court, which complicates matters.

3. Ooops ... we might be in a bit of difficulty over continuation disputes, but if we don't say anything nobody at BA may notice.

[Mariner9]

2 main things worthy of note in my view:

• DH acknowledges that there is "no way" a ballot can be considered 100% safe (while glossing over BASSA's incompetency in this regard)
• DH acknowledges that if the strike is linked in any way to the current dispute, then BASSA members can be sacked instantly.

One hopes that the BASSA members might consider these 2 points very carefully when considering whether to undertake further action.