BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV
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No, not for you Baggers.
I agree about McLuskey being rattled and he did clearly call 'John' a liar, but unfortunately he carried that one off.
As professional as 'john' was in approach, though, he was speaking under an assumed name and was not convincing on membership numbers - I found his 'thousands' response weak.
McLuskey was able to land some very hard hits, e.g. the management stooges attack, as the PCCC is still in the shadows.
Cheap points? Yes, but 5-0 or not, a clear victory in influencing general public opinion in my opinion and a regrettable one.
I agree about McLuskey being rattled and he did clearly call 'John' a liar, but unfortunately he carried that one off.
As professional as 'john' was in approach, though, he was speaking under an assumed name and was not convincing on membership numbers - I found his 'thousands' response weak.
McLuskey was able to land some very hard hits, e.g. the management stooges attack, as the PCCC is still in the shadows.
Cheap points? Yes, but 5-0 or not, a clear victory in influencing general public opinion in my opinion and a regrettable one.
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Rats ... had to go out this morning, and missed the whole thing. Now waiting for BBC iPlayer to put the programme up, which is apparently "coming soon".
Interesting summaries above; that gives me a idea what to listen to carefully!
Interesting summaries above; that gives me a idea what to listen to carefully!
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baggers
As I said, some strong words were used, which will be widely reported to anyone who is interested in this dispute and the marker has been laid to the PCCC. We shall see.
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MPN 11
The fun starts about 10.12. & it's a real classic. McCluskey really is a throw back to the 70s, only without the clout.
It's very obvious that at present the dispute has neither leadership nor direction.
Happy listening.
It's very obvious that at present the dispute has neither leadership nor direction.
Happy listening.
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baggersup:
While I agree that keeping the troops motivated is important, I do believe it is also important that Unite be able to communicate with the middle..those who are neither far left or right. Up to this point they have failed miserably in this task as far as the BASSA dispute is concerned.
In fact, if anything, they have raised the anger of the general public, damaged Cabin Crew's reputation, all of which does have a negative impact on their chances of success in this dispute.
As for the PCCC my opinion hasn't changed. Its time to come forth as true leaders to an alternative. Leadership isn't easy, that's why we have so many followers.
While I agree that keeping the troops motivated is important, I do believe it is also important that Unite be able to communicate with the middle..those who are neither far left or right. Up to this point they have failed miserably in this task as far as the BASSA dispute is concerned.
In fact, if anything, they have raised the anger of the general public, damaged Cabin Crew's reputation, all of which does have a negative impact on their chances of success in this dispute.
As for the PCCC my opinion hasn't changed. Its time to come forth as true leaders to an alternative. Leadership isn't easy, that's why we have so many followers.
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While I agree that keeping the troops motivated is important, I do believe it is also important that Unite be able to communicate with the middle..those who are neither far left or right. Up to this point they have failed miserably in this task as far as the BASSA dispute is concerned.
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Good afternoon Litebulbs:
While you are here I have a question. There has been talk of a "work to rule" effort by BASSA.
If the rumours that I have heard regarding the opinion of counsel are true this may be viewed by a central core of their membership as one of the few outlets left to have impact on BA.
Have you ever observed one these actions? Do you have an opinion of its chances for success.
What I have read leads me to believe that the Cabin Crew who took part leave themselves exposed to disciplinary action if they are not extremely careful...and with the smaller numbers now involved I see this as a potential danger to Cabin Crew taking part but its also an unknown area for me personally.
Any observations???
While you are here I have a question. There has been talk of a "work to rule" effort by BASSA.
If the rumours that I have heard regarding the opinion of counsel are true this may be viewed by a central core of their membership as one of the few outlets left to have impact on BA.
Have you ever observed one these actions? Do you have an opinion of its chances for success.
What I have read leads me to believe that the Cabin Crew who took part leave themselves exposed to disciplinary action if they are not extremely careful...and with the smaller numbers now involved I see this as a potential danger to Cabin Crew taking part but its also an unknown area for me personally.
Any observations???
Last edited by Diplome; 2nd Feb 2011 at 15:33. Reason: error...and another spelling error.
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Working "to rule"
If BASSA members decide to "work to rule" it could be to British Airways' advantage.
At least there would be no quibbling by the employees taking such action over which passengers get hot towels, or whether or not the blinds should be up or down, or whether crews report for duty at the correct time, or deciding on how much rest time they are entitled to . . .
et cetera
et cetera
et cetera
Yes, I am looking forward to this no end. Bring it on! At least passengers, pilots, turnaround managers, crew scheduling could depend on things getting done.
At least there would be no quibbling by the employees taking such action over which passengers get hot towels, or whether or not the blinds should be up or down, or whether crews report for duty at the correct time, or deciding on how much rest time they are entitled to . . .
et cetera
et cetera
et cetera
Yes, I am looking forward to this no end. Bring it on! At least passengers, pilots, turnaround managers, crew scheduling could depend on things getting done.
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If they do go down that route, then their IA seems to be:
1) Strike
2) Work to rule
3) ? negotiate perhaps?
Seems a bit backwards to me. Would have thought that a sensible route would be:
1) Negotiate
2) Work to rule
3) Strike
But that is just me....
1) Strike
2) Work to rule
3) ? negotiate perhaps?
Seems a bit backwards to me. Would have thought that a sensible route would be:
1) Negotiate
2) Work to rule
3) Strike
But that is just me....
Last edited by SwissRef; 2nd Feb 2011 at 15:01. Reason: spelling
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Diplome
I have never worked to rule (I have been told it is too hard!). I know in one particular dispute a while back, the call was to work with lack of enthusiasm.
There is no point thinking of old ways; legislation has been in place for many years to curtail the effectiveness of industrial unrest. New thinking is required, in my opinion.
There is no point thinking of old ways; legislation has been in place for many years to curtail the effectiveness of industrial unrest. New thinking is required, in my opinion.
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I know in one particular dispute a while back, the call was to work with lack of enthusiasm.
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Work to rule would never be allowed and would probably be forbidden by the CAA anyway. There is a line between aircraft operations the CAA, the ANO (Air Navigation Order)and the airline's aircraft Operations Manual. ALL are 'bibles' and cannot be bought into any kind of IA or changed one iota. The crew must abide by every word written therein. No room for unions involvement in any of them.
Working to rule
I remember working in a very large factory when the maintenance engineers and their various helpers were working to rule.
The effect of the work to rule was that the managers, senior engineers and supervisors worked especially hard to make sure that the work was done, to rule, and to plan.
The maintenance organisation had never worked so efficiently and effectively. When the HR bloke got the work to rule ended, the Factory Director was very pissed off with the HR bloke.
The key point for Aviation is that if the managers et al want to make a work to rule work for the organisation, rather than the TU, it can be done, but takes a bit of work.
The effect of the work to rule was that the managers, senior engineers and supervisors worked especially hard to make sure that the work was done, to rule, and to plan.
The maintenance organisation had never worked so efficiently and effectively. When the HR bloke got the work to rule ended, the Factory Director was very pissed off with the HR bloke.
The key point for Aviation is that if the managers et al want to make a work to rule work for the organisation, rather than the TU, it can be done, but takes a bit of work.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00y2098/Victoria_Derbyshire_02_02_2011/
An interesting point made by Len:
Making accusations about the PCCC being set up my BA managers. No proof offered of this but he contradicts this claim by saying "we've been trying to find out who they are" and "we don't know who they are".
Presumably the reason for Unite/Bassa trying to find out who are involved with the PCCC is either;
a) Idle curiosity.
b) To offer congratulations on joining the Union faternity.
c) Complain to the world at large that its unfair that they should do this.
d) Advertise their names and details, which could lead to intimidation - for
which of course BASSA would not in any way be responsible for.
I do believe that they are being very sensible in the manner in which they have commenced to set up the PCCC, despite calls by a number of posters, some of which are clearly BASSA trolls on the other thread and who display a very aggressive motivation against them.
They have done extremely well, as the frustration exhibited by BASSA etc. show. There is no legal requirement yet for them to provide any personal details, and they are no doubt setting into place the security needed for their personal protection as normal working CC.
It is of course, alway possible for those demanding that the PCCC come forward, to offer to be the public face of the PCCC as the main contact point, (subject to checking and suitability), with the attendant publicity, personal details, and office open to all comers.
The position may need a car protection officer/driver though and personal ex Marine or two as helpers, plus of course family and home protection squad. If anyone feels that this would be a bit dramatic, consider the rhetoric of BASSA at the Bedfont meetings, never mind some of the statements made on the BASSA forum!
Once again, they're doing very well, leave them alone to get on with it.
An interesting point made by Len:
Making accusations about the PCCC being set up my BA managers. No proof offered of this but he contradicts this claim by saying "we've been trying to find out who they are" and "we don't know who they are".
Presumably the reason for Unite/Bassa trying to find out who are involved with the PCCC is either;
a) Idle curiosity.
b) To offer congratulations on joining the Union faternity.
c) Complain to the world at large that its unfair that they should do this.
d) Advertise their names and details, which could lead to intimidation - for
which of course BASSA would not in any way be responsible for.
I do believe that they are being very sensible in the manner in which they have commenced to set up the PCCC, despite calls by a number of posters, some of which are clearly BASSA trolls on the other thread and who display a very aggressive motivation against them.
They have done extremely well, as the frustration exhibited by BASSA etc. show. There is no legal requirement yet for them to provide any personal details, and they are no doubt setting into place the security needed for their personal protection as normal working CC.
It is of course, alway possible for those demanding that the PCCC come forward, to offer to be the public face of the PCCC as the main contact point, (subject to checking and suitability), with the attendant publicity, personal details, and office open to all comers.
The position may need a car protection officer/driver though and personal ex Marine or two as helpers, plus of course family and home protection squad. If anyone feels that this would be a bit dramatic, consider the rhetoric of BASSA at the Bedfont meetings, never mind some of the statements made on the BASSA forum!
Once again, they're doing very well, leave them alone to get on with it.
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Agreed completely ... those creating PCCC from the ashes have, it appears, something to worry about as far as some of their co-workers [I nearly typed colleagues] are concerned.
I have no difficulty whatsoever about them being 'on the dark side' until that day - oh! frabjous day! - when BA CC get something resembling a proper Trades Union to represent them.
My donation sits awaiting the appropriate moment.
I have no difficulty whatsoever about them being 'on the dark side' until that day - oh! frabjous day! - when BA CC get something resembling a proper Trades Union to represent them.
My donation sits awaiting the appropriate moment.
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Entaxei:
I'm not sure what "leave them alone" applies to. I don't believe that anyone on this forum is bothering them.
They are part of the picture in this dispute and are open to the same discussion regarding actions as any other entity.
My personal feeling is that they should have someone come forth...its time.
...and as I've stated previously I would gladly write them a check to help their start up cause...or a cheque...
I'm not sure what "leave them alone" applies to. I don't believe that anyone on this forum is bothering them.
They are part of the picture in this dispute and are open to the same discussion regarding actions as any other entity.
My personal feeling is that they should have someone come forth...its time.
...and as I've stated previously I would gladly write them a check to help their start up cause...or a cheque...
Last edited by Diplome; 2nd Feb 2011 at 18:37.
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Working to rule could be considered as IA and could be challenged in the courts as much as strike or any other action could be.
The accusations that the PCCC should stay hidden obviously comes from like minded timid creatures......I stick by what I said. If you want to be a rep you have to be out there. Being threatened and intimidated (attempted) comes with the territory. If they are genuine there is no reason for them to continue hiding.
If genuine, good luck to them. However, they must convince people of their commitment and direction.
As for all the other Politic rubbish talked on here, No one is going to change anyone else's mind on their political beliefs so it's all a bit pointless..
The accusations that the PCCC should stay hidden obviously comes from like minded timid creatures......I stick by what I said. If you want to be a rep you have to be out there. Being threatened and intimidated (attempted) comes with the territory. If they are genuine there is no reason for them to continue hiding.
If genuine, good luck to them. However, they must convince people of their commitment and direction.
As for all the other Politic rubbish talked on here, No one is going to change anyone else's mind on their political beliefs so it's all a bit pointless..
Last edited by call100; 2nd Feb 2011 at 18:56.
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Interesting to read BA's responses to Unite on staff travel, pay deductions and sickness on the CC thread.
The responses do appear to be a very comprehensive rebuttal of Unite's complaints and, contrary to the way BA management has sometimes been portrayed by Unite, it does seem that BA has sought to do everything by the book and be reasonable in the circumstances.
The responses do appear to be a very comprehensive rebuttal of Unite's complaints and, contrary to the way BA management has sometimes been portrayed by Unite, it does seem that BA has sought to do everything by the book and be reasonable in the circumstances.