BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV
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I wonder why an intelligent person would repeatedly post up information of the sort being complained about above, despite complaints previously? Think about it.
Thats me having a "Think about it."
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I'm sorry, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to understand the point of this thread - There seems to be little to discuss (for the moment at least) and so the pack now seems to have turned in on itself.
I'm coming to believe that it is worth closing the thread, until something newsworthy actually happens. I'll leave it a day to see if there are any coherent reasons why this shouldn't happen - over to you.
I'm coming to believe that it is worth closing the thread, until something newsworthy actually happens. I'll leave it a day to see if there are any coherent reasons why this shouldn't happen - over to you.
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Juan T
Interesting. I think you may have the wrong end of the stick, and that I might have offered it to you. So, I had thought about it and:
I think it's because VK has a singular message that isn't for those who normally post on here but for the reader of the last few pages who is a BASSA member or perhaps knows one. The message is regularly refreshed so that it doesn't get lost in the thread's annals and extraneous noise. If you look at my posts yesterday 1068 and 1070 you'll see I was posing a question - if to end the deadlock means decapitating BASSA ( to use an unfortunate phrase borrowed from SKY a few minutes ago), how is it done?
In that context VK's answer, which quotes me, is perfect, though not news to most on here, especially Chuchinchow.
I was prompted to post originally after looking at the CC thread where there was an interesting and thoughtful exchange about how to end this wretched mess.
Tightslot - why not give it a month? Things will change over the next week or so and you could then watch it explode in a supernova of hubris and indignation!
I think it's because VK has a singular message that isn't for those who normally post on here but for the reader of the last few pages who is a BASSA member or perhaps knows one. The message is regularly refreshed so that it doesn't get lost in the thread's annals and extraneous noise. If you look at my posts yesterday 1068 and 1070 you'll see I was posing a question - if to end the deadlock means decapitating BASSA ( to use an unfortunate phrase borrowed from SKY a few minutes ago), how is it done?
In that context VK's answer, which quotes me, is perfect, though not news to most on here, especially Chuchinchow.
I was prompted to post originally after looking at the CC thread where there was an interesting and thoughtful exchange about how to end this wretched mess.
Tightslot - why not give it a month? Things will change over the next week or so and you could then watch it explode in a supernova of hubris and indignation!
Last edited by mrpony; 21st Mar 2011 at 11:46.
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Why rock the boat?
On the other thread Miss M says on____link
I have added the bold type.
It seems to me that part-time can only come about with new recruits._ These are coming each month as the Mixed Fleet produces another 100 or so._ Miss M goes on to say
My bold again.
But those who have applied for part-time will gain exactly what they applied for (thinks - thanks to Mixed Fleet).
Many crew have waited years for part-time and just because you have signed an individual offer with them doesn't mean that you should be able to jump the queue.
It seems to me that part-time can only come about with new recruits._ These are coming each month as the Mixed Fleet produces another 100 or so._ Miss M goes on to say
I'm not expecting BA to close down the fleet but we need to have some sort of control of it because otherwise we are going to lose everything.
But those who have applied for part-time will gain exactly what they applied for (thinks - thanks to Mixed Fleet).
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@ TightSlot ... I can understand your frustration, but this is the only place we SLF can twitter about the subject [some of the time]. I suggest that locking the thread might result in loads of little new ones popping up!
At least this thread is keeping all the noise in one place, however ineffectual and irrelevant it may be at times.
At least this thread is keeping all the noise in one place, however ineffectual and irrelevant it may be at times.
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I'm not expecting BA to close down the fleet but we need to have some sort of control of it because otherwise we are going to lose everything.
That's it. No less and no more.
Leave "control" to the British Airways board of directors and its delegated leadership team.
Tightslot.
Not an easy judgement.
As a regular visitor/contributor I can't say I would miss it when there is so little going on in the actual dispute. Maybe close it until the next ballot result? However, MPN11's point has a fait amount of validity. This thread keeps all the noise in one place.
As ever with modding - a balance!
One thing I would suggest is to implement PPrune rules very vigorously. Ban for a month or two anyone who says stuff such as
"I am sorry if such discussion exceeds your intellectual capabilities."
Not an easy judgement.
As a regular visitor/contributor I can't say I would miss it when there is so little going on in the actual dispute. Maybe close it until the next ballot result? However, MPN11's point has a fait amount of validity. This thread keeps all the noise in one place.
As ever with modding - a balance!
One thing I would suggest is to implement PPrune rules very vigorously. Ban for a month or two anyone who says stuff such as
"I am sorry if such discussion exceeds your intellectual capabilities."
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Indeed there are many who don’t read through the whole thread, or dip in from time to time, who are perhaps not as close to the real issues of this dispute.
I can only speculate as to why people like churchinchow feel threatened by reposting pertinent information and links, or indeed others posting in other threads where there is clearly an effort being made to obfuscate and divert attention from pertinent information.
BASSA's hounds now appear to be after me personally, since they are not willing to be transparent:
For too long there has been speculation and hearsay in relation to the strikes, and the time has passed for that.
I was amazed to read some of the posters on here had not seen the representation of Walsh as the Devil which has graced www.uniteba.com for over a year. How on earth is that representation relevant, professional, or reasonable? It’s not, and it’s typical of the bullying behaviour displayed by the thugs (and I use the word advisedly) running BASSA.
Factual arguments, backed up by referenceable documents, preferably from independent sources where possible will help cabin crew and us passengers make up our own minds.
It would seem sensible for BASSA to release its accounts and demonstrate the value £1.5m-£2m of annual subs (do many cc actually know that is the amount they contribute collectively every year?) have delivered to itsmembers for their hard-earned £15/month subscription. There is no allegation of fraud whatsoever. And if salaries have been paid, that’s fine as long as the membership is fine with that, and reckons is has and continues to receive value for money.
Contrary to assertions made elsewhere, I have no “skin in the game” on this dispute – it is a matter for BASSA members to resolve themselves. As has been said, BASSA is bigger than two people, but now is the time to look beyond this dispute, which is to all intents and purposes lost, and on death’s door, to the future and how BASSA can attempt to redefine itself as an organisation with the interests of its membership at its heart, and also an interest in the success of the employer which sustains its membership, and pays its former members’ pensions.
Sadly, many are scared to speak out, ask questions or propose a contrary perspective and I have to say that was I in any way connected to BA I would indeed to intimidated by the past form of BASSA in both its words and actions against those who take an opposing view. That is a sign of weakness, not strength.
This dispute is less and less about BA Cabin Crew, imposition or indeed any contractual negotiations. It is quite clear that there are larger “weird and wondrous” forces now at play in this dispute, including the Socialist Worker’s Party www.socialistworker.co.uk with its anti-capitalist and almost anarchic agenda, and cabin crew are being very dangerously placed in the middle of such toxic organisations.
The week commencing Monday 28th March will be interesting.
We will see the ballot result, which will no doubt be spun as a “stronger” result for BASSA (as even more right-thinking members of the ever-diminishing Union resign, increasing the percentage of “YES” votes), and leave a hardcore militant group determined to strike, without protection, come what may.
We should be formally party to the judgement from Duncan Holley’s Employment Tribunal, though the fact no-one has tweeted that he’s won tells us with some considerable accuracy how that went.
We should also hear more on the Certification Officer’s views on the way in which BASSA administrates itself, initially focussing on its accounts, and perhaps also its internal election of branch officers.
All in all, interesting times, and an opportunity for reflection in the period of calm before the storm as to what Industrial Relations at BA will look like a year from now. Certainly, a great deal of rumour and speculation in the coming week.
For those who have not yet had an opportunity to read the reasons why BASSA has nowehere to go, with much of the (referenced) evidence all in one place, I would refer them to this earlier post:
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...ml#post6265674
BASSA don't like that sort of thing, and there is probably a jolly good reason why they don't.
I can only speculate as to why people like churchinchow feel threatened by reposting pertinent information and links, or indeed others posting in other threads where there is clearly an effort being made to obfuscate and divert attention from pertinent information.
BASSA's hounds now appear to be after me personally, since they are not willing to be transparent:
For too long there has been speculation and hearsay in relation to the strikes, and the time has passed for that.
I was amazed to read some of the posters on here had not seen the representation of Walsh as the Devil which has graced www.uniteba.com for over a year. How on earth is that representation relevant, professional, or reasonable? It’s not, and it’s typical of the bullying behaviour displayed by the thugs (and I use the word advisedly) running BASSA.
Factual arguments, backed up by referenceable documents, preferably from independent sources where possible will help cabin crew and us passengers make up our own minds.
It would seem sensible for BASSA to release its accounts and demonstrate the value £1.5m-£2m of annual subs (do many cc actually know that is the amount they contribute collectively every year?) have delivered to itsmembers for their hard-earned £15/month subscription. There is no allegation of fraud whatsoever. And if salaries have been paid, that’s fine as long as the membership is fine with that, and reckons is has and continues to receive value for money.
Contrary to assertions made elsewhere, I have no “skin in the game” on this dispute – it is a matter for BASSA members to resolve themselves. As has been said, BASSA is bigger than two people, but now is the time to look beyond this dispute, which is to all intents and purposes lost, and on death’s door, to the future and how BASSA can attempt to redefine itself as an organisation with the interests of its membership at its heart, and also an interest in the success of the employer which sustains its membership, and pays its former members’ pensions.
Sadly, many are scared to speak out, ask questions or propose a contrary perspective and I have to say that was I in any way connected to BA I would indeed to intimidated by the past form of BASSA in both its words and actions against those who take an opposing view. That is a sign of weakness, not strength.
This dispute is less and less about BA Cabin Crew, imposition or indeed any contractual negotiations. It is quite clear that there are larger “weird and wondrous” forces now at play in this dispute, including the Socialist Worker’s Party www.socialistworker.co.uk with its anti-capitalist and almost anarchic agenda, and cabin crew are being very dangerously placed in the middle of such toxic organisations.
The week commencing Monday 28th March will be interesting.
We will see the ballot result, which will no doubt be spun as a “stronger” result for BASSA (as even more right-thinking members of the ever-diminishing Union resign, increasing the percentage of “YES” votes), and leave a hardcore militant group determined to strike, without protection, come what may.
We should be formally party to the judgement from Duncan Holley’s Employment Tribunal, though the fact no-one has tweeted that he’s won tells us with some considerable accuracy how that went.
We should also hear more on the Certification Officer’s views on the way in which BASSA administrates itself, initially focussing on its accounts, and perhaps also its internal election of branch officers.
All in all, interesting times, and an opportunity for reflection in the period of calm before the storm as to what Industrial Relations at BA will look like a year from now. Certainly, a great deal of rumour and speculation in the coming week.
For those who have not yet had an opportunity to read the reasons why BASSA has nowehere to go, with much of the (referenced) evidence all in one place, I would refer them to this earlier post:
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...ml#post6265674
BASSA don't like that sort of thing, and there is probably a jolly good reason why they don't.
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As a Mod has asked I’ll answer.
Personally I believe the thread should remain open.
I’m quite capable of ignoring a post if it adds nothing to the debate or is covering a point that has been previously made I can also chose not to read it. The fact that such posts may exist doesn’t affect me adversely.
I personally believe there is little to add “at this time” which is why I have been silent (until now), but I also consider myself up to speed on the current state of things, late arrivals still find the thread useful I’m sure, so let if live on I say.
One final point regarding closing it “until something newsworthy happens” I would only say by who’s measure are we using to determine newsworthy? I haven’t chosen to comment on the BASSA funds issue, but I’m VERY interested indeed to hear any details or outcome.
Personally I believe the thread should remain open.
I’m quite capable of ignoring a post if it adds nothing to the debate or is covering a point that has been previously made I can also chose not to read it. The fact that such posts may exist doesn’t affect me adversely.
I personally believe there is little to add “at this time” which is why I have been silent (until now), but I also consider myself up to speed on the current state of things, late arrivals still find the thread useful I’m sure, so let if live on I say.
One final point regarding closing it “until something newsworthy happens” I would only say by who’s measure are we using to determine newsworthy? I haven’t chosen to comment on the BASSA funds issue, but I’m VERY interested indeed to hear any details or outcome.
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I can only speculate as to why people like churchinchow feel threatened
However, I (and probably others) am fed up with reading the same old cut and pasted, plagiarised, stale, out of date, done to death platitudes being served up time after time after time.
What would be helpful, VK, would be some original thought. Many of us have been reading, and some of us have been contributing to, this saga for a long time now so we knew all the cliches and all the platitudes long before you joined us.
As the moderator has intimated in so many words, "If there is nothing new to say . . ."
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I'm in the "Keep it open" camp, especially with several issues hitting the point where more decisions may be forthcoming (Bassa funds, Ballot, etc.).
I think most posters are smart enough to sort the wheat from the chaff.
Does it require a lot of modding?
I think most posters are smart enough to sort the wheat from the chaff.
Does it require a lot of modding?
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Thanks all for your feedback.
Reasonable points all round - what I've decided to do is close this thread, and start from scratch on a new one. New Broom and all that...
There is clearly a demand for this topic, and with ballot results apparently due in a week or so, things may perk up.
The modding on this thread (and forum) is not particularly arduous, and is usually a pleasure. That said, I'm concerned that the relatively recent arrival of our champagne quaffing friend has coincided with something of a downturn in the general tone. I am aware of this, and am watching closely.
New thread starts HERE
Reasonable points all round - what I've decided to do is close this thread, and start from scratch on a new one. New Broom and all that...
There is clearly a demand for this topic, and with ballot results apparently due in a week or so, things may perk up.
The modding on this thread (and forum) is not particularly arduous, and is usually a pleasure. That said, I'm concerned that the relatively recent arrival of our champagne quaffing friend has coincided with something of a downturn in the general tone. I am aware of this, and am watching closely.
New thread starts HERE
