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Suicide explosion at Moscow Domodedovo

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Suicide explosion at Moscow Domodedovo

Old 25th Jan 2011, 00:38
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by icare9
Go on, HT, give 'em all the clues to do a better job....
No doubt, "they" have already figured that out, and more. I don't think that HT's observation was a great revelation to them.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 01:16
  #22 (permalink)  
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Hotel Tango:

When UK airports shut the stable doors after the horses had bolted and stopped vehicles getting close to terminals I always wondered what would stop suicide bombers detonating suitcases full of explosives in a crowded check-in area. Let's face it, it's not suspicious carrying a suitcase into an airport departures area - and in the UK there's no security prior to entering a terminal. It doesn't stop me travelling but I do think about it. This incident has highlighted my concerns.
The U.S. hasn't even stopped the vehicles snugging up to the terminal building.

When I travel out of LAX in particular I always think about it and conclude the odds are greatly in my favor on a personal basis.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 02:20
  #23 (permalink)  
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That would make sense as many airports let you get pretty close to the doors where pax come out without stringent security.
Can see this privilege disappearing overnight in the Republic of Knee-jerks.
Anyone checked-in at any US or UK establishment today?
One wonders what new joys will be implemented to 'protect' us.....until the next car-park bomb widens the security circle......then an innovative motorway-junction bomb or IED on the side of the road in Crawley.....until it gets to the stage where I will have to be strip-searched each time I walk through my own gate at home.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 02:21
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Post airports and environs are a target rich environment

especially and particularly to an attacker who m does not have escape as a priority (it doesn't even have to be a suicide attack)

Squealing at posters like little sheep as if not mentioning the obvious somehow makes you safe-ish.

ALL airport checkpoints are based on manners - you are politely ask to stop and be frisked, and politely, you comply. For some airports you are a short sprint from the gate and/or the aircraft. If someone decided to not stop, off they go! -It's not as if they have to be buzzed through, one by one, by someone sitting securely on the other side.

Undoubtedly in this case, the operators plan was to penetrate deeper into the airport, when challenged,they terminated in option B.
In this case the security system worked, the threat was identified and it was intercepted or met. The problem is that that still resulted in 40 or so dead.

Airport design is fundamentally flawed when presented with security questions.
A sports Arena has a somewhat better model as they are designed to allow for the ingress of a large number of individually authenticated individuals (with the awareness that a portion may be actively trying to get in w/o paying)

With airports, that was never the design concern, all the security structures have been bolted on after the fact and it shows.
The greatest threat is copy cat attacks, luckily, the Al Qaeda terror threat is greatly overblown, otherwise we would be up s*t creek
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 06:15
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The more stringent the security measures are, the greater the bottleneck of people waiting to pass through them. The greater the bottleneck the greater the number of humans gathered in a nice contained bunch = potential target.

Take a look at any check in area on a summer bank holiday around the lo-co desks for example, nearly all of whom have large cases with them.

I don’t pretend to know the answer but x-rays, body scanners and other gizmo’s aint it.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 07:05
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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in the UK there's no security prior to entering a terminal
In Domodedovo there are security facilities at any entrance door. In the past there was no way to enter without sending your luggage (check-in + carry-on) and coat through the x-ray and walking through the magnetic detector. Since 2009 they are no longer in use... Instead they have installed the full body scanners in the new security area. Where by the way they already succeded to pick my wallet. Domodedowo is a security nightmare in the public areas, there are so many people around which are not passengers, the meet & greet area is always crowded, full of people making their living as unlicencenced taxi drivers with their private car.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 07:24
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If someone wants to blow themselves up and make casualties they can always succeed to matter what measures are in place. If not an airport then a metro station, train, even a bloody supermarket on a saturday morning has plenty of soft targets. For whatever reason anything associated with air travel gets more coverage so thats their primary target most of the time but plenty of other options. Nothing can be done about it.

Been to DME a few times, dont like it much as its too crowded. Am on a flight to SVO this afternoon though. No doubt security is going to be more annoying than usual.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 08:01
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Security is a joke everywhere you go, the alternative is a Police State.

Fact:- blowing things, people, planes up is easy

The reason it doesn't happen every day is because it would lose its impact in the same way we couldn't give two hoots when we see dead people on the TV.

The IRA had 20 years of doing evil things but in the end you just waited for it to happen and got on with life. No big deal if you weren't hit and if you were then you had your 15 mins and no one cared after that.

If things start getting past "buggeration factor" then we'll see some action but, in our "civilised" society, it is unlikely to amount to much.

Bottom line: get used to it. Security will be what it needs to be to prevent student bombers with nothing better to do but will never be more than mildly effective against groups with funding and a cause that they're willing to die for.

As stated, a firework every so often gets much more attention then every firework in a display and that's what keeps us "statisically" safe.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 08:10
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Just a matter of time before it happens at an "airport near home"

The herd of elephants are breeding in the room and everyone turns a blind eye.

None so blind as those who will not see.

ElG.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 08:11
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Icare9

Go on, HT, give 'em all the clues to do a better job....
Sometimes the urge to put your name on a posting is done without thinking through the potential consequences....
Zip it and think, next time, please...
I was airing a genuine concern. Do you honestly think that they haven't yet thought of it? I suggest you think before having the urge to put your name on what was a totally ridiculous posting on your part!
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 08:18
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If they are going to do it then they will do it, whether it be an aircraft, terminal, train station, even a shopping centre, it's virtually impossible to stop it.

I'm pretty sure that I, along with many people on here and in the World in general have a means of causing mayhem and destruction, thankfully 99.999% of us are sensible enough not to want to.

It's finding that 0.001% that is the problem, and short of enforcing a police state, I'm not entirely sure how to make any system infallible.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 09:49
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As a frequent traveller through DME (and SVO 1/2) I have seen the security increase dramatically since the late 90's - and generally the level of diligence is high - although have seen some glaring exceptions - but perhaps I wasn't viewing the entire picture.

However entering the arrivals area is like a zoo (with all the competing taxi mafia) although better than SVO2 is still completely disorganized and chaotic.

Their are all sorts of odd characters wandering around, often seemingly outnumbering the passengers.

DME should have made a complete break from the SVO mentality set.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 14:21
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Two Britons are among 35 people believed to have been killed along with 170 injured in an explosion caused by a dual suicide attack at Moscow's main commercial airport.
Rollinthunder - your comment is quite valid in a thread where news is breaking and further information is being added all the time. However, when The Times headline reads "Britons Killed in Moscow Terror". I despaired that journalism hasnt moved on from the "Fog in the channel - Europe isolated" days. Arent the other 34 deaths quite so important?

Meanwhile, on the inside pages is a horrific account of how Steven Greenoe managed twice to blag his way onto flights in the US after declaring that the dismantled weapons he was carrying were replicas, and then succeeded in getting them past UK customs, whence they found their way to criminal gangs in NW England. Hardly a triumph for either US or UK security.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 22:25
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Go on, HT, give 'em all the clues to do a better job....
Sometimes the urge to put your name on a posting is done without thinking through the potential consequences....
Zip it and think, next time, please...
The chance that competent military minds, which the perpetrators of this bombing almost certainly were, could learn anything of consequence from reading anything posted here is simply too small to be measured.
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 22:43
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There are troublous times in Russia nobody takes responsibility so far, many people guess, it won't happen, like it was with action in the Moscow subway last spring.
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Old 26th Jan 2011, 00:23
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When it's your time, it's your time.

Nobody can legislate for self-exploding nutters.


Male or Female.



The "Security Industry" will disagree.


I note that Vlad is blaming the management at the Airport.
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Old 26th Jan 2011, 00:37
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The chance that competent military minds, which the perpetrators of this bombing almost certainly were, could learn anything of consequence from reading anything posted here is simply too small to be measured.
I'd question the competence - the method/target has been obvious for a long time - they appear to have targeted the arrivals hall rather than the departures area - typically there would be more people in a condensed area in the departures/security screening area. It would suggest that they were targetting a particular person/group rather than a random attack.
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Old 26th Jan 2011, 02:49
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Not very long after 9/11 a thread was running, as you can well imagine, which discussed in detail the vulnerability of the passengers waiting to check-in and also queuing to go through security. Many of us have stood in those snaking queues with perhaps 300-400 people packed in close proximity, STN being one of the worst I suspect. Once our unprofiled terrorist reaches the middle of the crowd, pop, no more crowd. A similar situation appears to be the case here, only difference is it was in an arrival area.

There will never be a solution to this problem unless we stop people flying.
To prevent this do we move the security queue outside the terminal, down the road, outside the airport? If hundreds of people want to leave an airport at or close to opening time, being the busiest time, then there will be crowds of people. Same goes for the Tube stations and bus stations. Sadly, now that suicide bombers have the misguided notion that they will be martyrs in heaven the instant they press the button, these crowds will always be extremely vulnerable.
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Old 26th Jan 2011, 07:06
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Originally Posted by rubik101
To prevent this do we move the security queue outside the terminal, down the road, outside the airport? If hundreds of people want to leave an airport at or close to opening time, being the busiest time, then there will be crowds of people.
Why do you assume that there MUST be queues, of large numbers of people in close proximity ? The ONLY reason for queues is providing insufficient staff for security, immigration checks, etc. If there were more security resources, maybe even if only 50% of the security stations provided were actually staffed and in use, then there would be no queueing required. There are a significant number of airports around the world that manage to organise themselves in this way.

If a huge queue forms by opening time then the answer is painfully obvious - open earlier !
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Old 26th Jan 2011, 07:19
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There will never be a solution to this problem unless we stop people flying.
A good first step would be to stop converting a place intended to get people on board of an airplane into shopping malls and restaurants intended to make a maximum of money. Everytime an airport is "improved" the number of shops is increased, the distance to walk is increased, the time you have to plan to get to the plane is increased. (Last example I found extremely annoying is BRS, where they installed a large Duty-Free shop between security and waiting area, reducing the number of seats in the waiting area significantly, pushing the passengers into the restaurants. It once was a nice and simple airport, now it becomes the same as anywhere) Security is always second priority after profit. Most Airports make their money renting out shop and restaurant space, not serving airlines.
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