Turning off E-readers for dept/arrival
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Turning off E-readers for dept/arrival
I can understand why the airlines want people to turn off their mobile phones in flight and also why ipods etc need to be off for take off and landing (cannot hear any instructions from crew), but why am I forced to turn off my Sony E-Reader as well? It is no more distracting than reading a newspaper, which everyone seems to do during the emergency briefing. It does not send or receive any messages, nor play any music, but is just a book.
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Part of the problem is its a book with wifi and a computer attached. The issue is one of asking folks to turn everything off during take off and landing to minimise problems, instead of 200+ bits of random electronics turned on hopefully after asking you'll only get 5-10 which should reduce any potential for interference.
On an eInk screen I would imagine that every page turn puts out a (small) pulse of energy as the little beads get flipped from black to white.
Edit: Of course the amounts involved are so small that it almost certainly doesn't matter but during TO/Landing why take the risk.
On an eInk screen I would imagine that every page turn puts out a (small) pulse of energy as the little beads get flipped from black to white.
Edit: Of course the amounts involved are so small that it almost certainly doesn't matter but during TO/Landing why take the risk.
Last edited by PeterI; 18th Dec 2010 at 12:45. Reason: forgot a bit
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Mike, the simple answer is because you were told to. The instruction is probably to "switch off all electronic items." Airlines can't be expected to keep lists of every single piece of electronicery (updated daily) and judge whether it "transmits" or not, and then train the cabin crew to recognise them all. How could they?
As with so many things in life it comes down to keeping rules simple.
(In reality anything electronic transmits RF of some kind, so it cannot be inert unless it is off)
It's no more a book than an i pod is an orchestra, its a piece of electronics and falls squarely under the simple safety related request quoted above.
I do take your point on the safety demo though, if they were consistent on safety they'd enforce attention on that as much as switching off gizmos, but life ain't like that, though the much maligned Ryanair has a reputation for cc barking at backsliders during the demo, bless 'em.
As with so many things in life it comes down to keeping rules simple.
(In reality anything electronic transmits RF of some kind, so it cannot be inert unless it is off)
It's no more a book than an i pod is an orchestra, its a piece of electronics and falls squarely under the simple safety related request quoted above.
I do take your point on the safety demo though, if they were consistent on safety they'd enforce attention on that as much as switching off gizmos, but life ain't like that, though the much maligned Ryanair has a reputation for cc barking at backsliders during the demo, bless 'em.
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If there's an emergency landing then it minimises the chances of your eReader going flying through the cabin out of your hands! If you manage to keep hold of it, then that's less stuff for you to be faffing around with during the evacuation.
Cabin crew don't tell you to turn stuff off just to annoy you.
Cabin crew don't tell you to turn stuff off just to annoy you.
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Sir Herbert, surely better if it does fly out of his hands in an accident, that way he isn't risking lives faffing around trying to keep it safe and carry it off during the evacuation.
Come to think of it there should be a locking system on the baggage bins for use during an evac too. Sooner or later that would save lives, big time.
Come to think of it there should be a locking system on the baggage bins for use during an evac too. Sooner or later that would save lives, big time.
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Some models of ebook readers contain transmitters (Wifi, UTMS, etc.) You can not expect that the cabin crew knows the technical specifications of each and every handheld electronics device sold worldwide. So, it is easier to ask that they all are switched off.
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Sir Herbert, surely better if it does fly out of his hands in an accident, that way he isn't risking lives faffing around trying to keep it safe and carry it off during the evacuation.
Come to think of it there should be a locking system on the baggage bins for use during an evac too. Sooner or later that would save lives, big time.
Come to think of it there should be a locking system on the baggage bins for use during an evac too. Sooner or later that would save lives, big time.
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Thank you for all your replies - i will admit it is much as I expected - and will agree that if told to do something by the crew, we should always do it.
Sir Herbert, I must say, that I am told (not always politely) to turn it off, but not to put it way. With the amount of hand luggage that is taken aboard these days, I think the other pax are in far more danger of the overhead bins bursting open - I have seen people needing help to heave their 'hand luggage' into the overhead bins!
Sir Herbert, I must say, that I am told (not always politely) to turn it off, but not to put it way. With the amount of hand luggage that is taken aboard these days, I think the other pax are in far more danger of the overhead bins bursting open - I have seen people needing help to heave their 'hand luggage' into the overhead bins!
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No hardship? Indeed it is partially for this reason I abandoned my eReader a couple of years ago reverting to the paperback. Encouraged, I might add, by the fact that e-titles seemed to cost at least as much as the hard copy (if not more) and very frustrated by the many button presses needed to go back and check something I thought I had read earlier in the book. No where near as clever as it's proponents suggest.
Am I alone?
Am I alone?
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I can understand why the airlines want people to turn off their mobile phones in flight and also why ipods etc need to be off for take off and landing (cannot hear any instructions from crew), but why am I forced to turn off my Sony E-Reader as well? It is no more distracting than reading a newspaper, which everyone seems to do during the emergency briefing. It does not send or receive any messages, nor play any music, but is just a book.
Encouraged, I might add, by the fact that e-titles seemed to cost at least as much as the hard copy (if not more) and very frustrated by the many button presses needed to go back and check something I thought I had read earlier in the book. No where near as clever as it's proponents suggest.
I subscribe to several publications electronically. They're less expensive, and I get the subscription instantly. I can't carry a lot of paper with me on the road; I'm gone for extended periods, and have to live out of my bags. There isn't room to carry a lot of other material, such as books. The e-reader takes up little room, and can carry more than enough. My company publications are on a disc, viewable on my laptop.
I strongly prefer paper. Electronics are a poor substitute for paper, though admittedly the Kindle does a better job than other formats. I like to write in the margins of books, take notes, make comments. I like to be able to turn back a page or a chapter. I like the smell of the print and the paper. Where that's not so much an option, I make do, and thus far, the kindle has been better than having nothing to read at all.
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Haven't a clue
I can't say whether you are alone, but I am on my 3rd e-book reader and find them marvellous.
How else can one easily pack 4-5 paperbacks for a long trip, plus add working papers in PDF format?
And switching it off for landing takes only a second.
Agaricus bisporus
I would be intrigued to know why cabin crew almost universally tolerate people listening to iPods during descent and landing, whereas they tell people to power down e-readers. This in my experience of circa 100 sectors per year, for as long as e-readers have been around.
It seems to me that all electronic equipment should be off for landing, that is the point of having a universal rule.
I can't say whether you are alone, but I am on my 3rd e-book reader and find them marvellous.
How else can one easily pack 4-5 paperbacks for a long trip, plus add working papers in PDF format?
And switching it off for landing takes only a second.
Agaricus bisporus
I would be intrigued to know why cabin crew almost universally tolerate people listening to iPods during descent and landing, whereas they tell people to power down e-readers. This in my experience of circa 100 sectors per year, for as long as e-readers have been around.
It seems to me that all electronic equipment should be off for landing, that is the point of having a universal rule.
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Slight thread drift.
I-pods are a pain to spot! The earphones are so small and often if they are black they are camouflaged. Particularly as some folk seem to be incapable of breathing without some music playing in their ears and therefore have the things welded to their ears 24/7. Their cunning plan seems to consist of taking the most visible earphone out, whilst leaving the one nearest the bulkhead in, this works best whilst sporting a hat.
Whilst trying to secure a whole cabin focusing on every ear for 'hidden' phones can be near impossible. Personally I try to adopt a reasonable approach to overall safety versus absolute compliance. If the odd i pod is on then so be it.
6
I-pods are a pain to spot! The earphones are so small and often if they are black they are camouflaged. Particularly as some folk seem to be incapable of breathing without some music playing in their ears and therefore have the things welded to their ears 24/7. Their cunning plan seems to consist of taking the most visible earphone out, whilst leaving the one nearest the bulkhead in, this works best whilst sporting a hat.
Whilst trying to secure a whole cabin focusing on every ear for 'hidden' phones can be near impossible. Personally I try to adopt a reasonable approach to overall safety versus absolute compliance. If the odd i pod is on then so be it.
6
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Electronic Equipment Emissions
All electronic devices give out emissions (emit), this is via the power cord, keyboard, screen, processor, etc.. This is how the television detector vans are able to tell you what programme you are watching and where in the house the TV is. This is also the whole basis of intelligence electronic evesdropping.
Each device can emit in a different manner to the next device and from a different part, element or component of its circuitry, therefore it is not possible on an aircraft to just state 'turn off 'X' manufacturer's PC's'.
There are a raft of specifications that electronic devices have to meet in the components they use and the emissions the finished product gives off.
Unfortunately they do not all meet specifications, and their output is modified by the electronic environment they are operating in. i.e. What other electronic equipments are operating within the Aircraft and being used by other passengers. Faulty equipment provides its own problems!
On an Aircraft, electronic devices carried by passengers have been proven to affect navigational, autopilot, blind landing and normal landing systems, as well as individual instruments. It is also why you are requested not to use Mobiles when landed and taxying as this can cross with the ground controllers instructions to the aircraft. This is why passengers are requested to turn off all electronic devices - it is not due to bloody mindedness - although when you listen to some passengers reactions !!
Emissions from electric welding equipment being used in hospitals, has been proven to turn/switch on massive emergency diesel generators without any human intervention being needed, to the discomfort of generator service engineers!!
Each device can emit in a different manner to the next device and from a different part, element or component of its circuitry, therefore it is not possible on an aircraft to just state 'turn off 'X' manufacturer's PC's'.
There are a raft of specifications that electronic devices have to meet in the components they use and the emissions the finished product gives off.
Unfortunately they do not all meet specifications, and their output is modified by the electronic environment they are operating in. i.e. What other electronic equipments are operating within the Aircraft and being used by other passengers. Faulty equipment provides its own problems!
On an Aircraft, electronic devices carried by passengers have been proven to affect navigational, autopilot, blind landing and normal landing systems, as well as individual instruments. It is also why you are requested not to use Mobiles when landed and taxying as this can cross with the ground controllers instructions to the aircraft. This is why passengers are requested to turn off all electronic devices - it is not due to bloody mindedness - although when you listen to some passengers reactions !!
Emissions from electric welding equipment being used in hospitals, has been proven to turn/switch on massive emergency diesel generators without any human intervention being needed, to the discomfort of generator service engineers!!
Last edited by Entaxei; 19th Dec 2010 at 12:19. Reason: Spell (casting)
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you are requested not to use Mobiles when landed and taxying as this can cross with the ground controllers instructions to the aircraft
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On an Aircraft, electronic devices carried by passengers have been proven to affect navigational, autopilot, blind landing and normal landing systems, as well as individual instruments. It is also why you are requested not to use Mobiles when landed and taxying as this can cross with the ground controllers instructions to the aircraft. This is why passengers are requested to turn off all electronic devices - it is not due to bloody mindedness - although when you listen to some passengers reactions !!
In the US it is the FCC that bans the use on aircraft. The FCC is concerned that the use, or even non-use, of a powered cell phone could cause disruption to the cell systems' towers. They are also concerned that a phone at altitude my constantly increase its signal strength and perhaps this increased signal could have an effect on aircraft systems. Of course nobody is prepared to test these theories to prove or disapprove and the ban remains in effect.
Of course an aircraft with its own cell doesn't cause these problems, which is how we are seeing (except in US airspace) aircraft on which you can use your cell-phone.
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ExXB - Urban Myth - EMC Effects from PAX equipment
No Urban Myth - this is real & live.
I have been dealing with EMC military specifications amongst other things for over 20 years, including designing & supplying various equipment, carrying out project management of equipment testing against EMC Mil Specs in test cells, etc.. I trust that the folllwing will assist.
I have taken from a copy of a monthly trade magazine, the following examples;
NASA Report on aviation safety reporting system (ASRS)2002 -
a/c DC9 FLT FL3100 onset multiple anomalies, radar altimeter began flagging & sweeping, GPWS & TASCII annunciated FAIL, VORS flagged.
After three checks of PAX equipment, pagers had batteries removed, and a CPU with external power pack was targeted, following which everything returned to normal.
a/c DC9 During CLBOUT Captains radar altimeter flagged and TACSII & GPSW annunciated FAIL, this continued until FL350, then discovered PAX Sony Video Walkman in use, when switched off, problem vanished.
A/c EMB120 Interference on VOR navigation reception, traced cause to PAX Toshiba laptop.
A/c EMB120 Again with Toshiba laptop, at VOR when needles on MFD display went crazy, spinning in circles on both Nav1 & Nav2, turned laptop off and on, instruments almost normal, but 40 degrees off from ATC.
These are deliberately taken from an old report and some details omitted, as I don't see any mileage in spreading details any further than necessary and, no doubt the threads discussing it would be trying to downgrade it as a threat in order to justify the increased use of mobiles and possibly other devices on board. (excuse my cynicism showing).
Just in passing, I understand that an accident aboard a USN Carrier off Vietnam, when a missile fired from an A/C on deck, which started multiple fires and a number of personnel were killed/injured and many A/C damaged, was proven to have been caused by an unshielded junction box causing the missile to fire. However, while believing the possiblity of this, I cannot vouch the truth as I have not seen a copy of the report.
If you would like further info pse PM me.
I have been dealing with EMC military specifications amongst other things for over 20 years, including designing & supplying various equipment, carrying out project management of equipment testing against EMC Mil Specs in test cells, etc.. I trust that the folllwing will assist.
I have taken from a copy of a monthly trade magazine, the following examples;
NASA Report on aviation safety reporting system (ASRS)2002 -
a/c DC9 FLT FL3100 onset multiple anomalies, radar altimeter began flagging & sweeping, GPWS & TASCII annunciated FAIL, VORS flagged.
After three checks of PAX equipment, pagers had batteries removed, and a CPU with external power pack was targeted, following which everything returned to normal.
a/c DC9 During CLBOUT Captains radar altimeter flagged and TACSII & GPSW annunciated FAIL, this continued until FL350, then discovered PAX Sony Video Walkman in use, when switched off, problem vanished.
A/c EMB120 Interference on VOR navigation reception, traced cause to PAX Toshiba laptop.
A/c EMB120 Again with Toshiba laptop, at VOR when needles on MFD display went crazy, spinning in circles on both Nav1 & Nav2, turned laptop off and on, instruments almost normal, but 40 degrees off from ATC.
These are deliberately taken from an old report and some details omitted, as I don't see any mileage in spreading details any further than necessary and, no doubt the threads discussing it would be trying to downgrade it as a threat in order to justify the increased use of mobiles and possibly other devices on board. (excuse my cynicism showing).
Just in passing, I understand that an accident aboard a USN Carrier off Vietnam, when a missile fired from an A/C on deck, which started multiple fires and a number of personnel were killed/injured and many A/C damaged, was proven to have been caused by an unshielded junction box causing the missile to fire. However, while believing the possiblity of this, I cannot vouch the truth as I have not seen a copy of the report.
If you would like further info pse PM me.
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Have'nt a clue
But if I remember correctly from visiting the IOM recently, is'nt there only one bay to taxi into, (provided the outgoing flt has vacated it), so the Flt crew are operating on VFR only and are not bothered about mobiles!!.
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With due respect Entaxei is this not an urban myth? There is a thread on airliners.net (Mobile Phone Use And Accidents — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net) that is seeking to find any aircraft accident that was a result of use of cell phones.
If one has a gunfight and ten thousand rounds of ammunition are expended but only six people die, does that mean that the ammunition is harmless? What if nobody dies? Does that mean that bullets hurting people is a myth? Of course not.
Likewise, if one hasn't recorded a mishap based on cell usage, does this mean that simply because an airplane hasn't crashed or nobody has died, that the reasons for restricting cell (and other electronic devices) use in flight is a myth? Of course not.
While a thread on PPRUNE may not link to a mishap, rest assured that databases such as the NASA ASRS reporting system have a significant number of PED (personal electronic device) related incidents.
It's not just cell phones.