Warning for pax heading to St Lucia on BA
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Warning for pax heading to St Lucia on BA
Just thought I would let ppruners know that one month after hurricane Tomas hit the island BA is still routing the flight from St Lucia (UVF) through Trinidad. Their webpage says that St Lucia flights have returned to normal but I was emailed (& texted) that I had to check in just over 2 hrs earlier than the original schedule and would arrive in LGW 30 mins later.
This is due to the fact that BA flies "shuttles" between 2 islands (in this case Trinidad and St Lucia). Normally the ex London crew stay in St Lucia in a hotel in the south and a new crew come from the hotel and just go up and down to POS then another crew comes from the hotel and flies back to London.
As the south of the island sill has no water (at least not regular pipe born supply) and the hotel has no tanks the crew are being overnighted in Port of Spain. I found it a bit strange as the traffic to the city in POS is always bad so they win only probably 30 mins compared to overnighting the crew in the north of St Lucia where there are plenty of hotels and all is back to normal. Plus the crew are not v happy in POS - more expensive etc etc and I really was not impressed with the level of service/presence in the cabin. Both sets (UVF-POS/POS-LGW were pretty grumpy) not what you expect from Gatwick crew....
Makes for a long day for the pax as many have onward connections. Virgin is flying as normal and flight time is 8.05 instead of 10.30 with BA!!
If you are going to St Lucia before January and have a choice I'd recommend you go Virgin!
This is due to the fact that BA flies "shuttles" between 2 islands (in this case Trinidad and St Lucia). Normally the ex London crew stay in St Lucia in a hotel in the south and a new crew come from the hotel and just go up and down to POS then another crew comes from the hotel and flies back to London.
As the south of the island sill has no water (at least not regular pipe born supply) and the hotel has no tanks the crew are being overnighted in Port of Spain. I found it a bit strange as the traffic to the city in POS is always bad so they win only probably 30 mins compared to overnighting the crew in the north of St Lucia where there are plenty of hotels and all is back to normal. Plus the crew are not v happy in POS - more expensive etc etc and I really was not impressed with the level of service/presence in the cabin. Both sets (UVF-POS/POS-LGW were pretty grumpy) not what you expect from Gatwick crew....
Makes for a long day for the pax as many have onward connections. Virgin is flying as normal and flight time is 8.05 instead of 10.30 with BA!!
If you are going to St Lucia before January and have a choice I'd recommend you go Virgin!
Last edited by piton; 2nd Dec 2010 at 15:20.
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As the south of the island sill has no water (at least not regular pipe born supply) and the hotel has no tanks the crew are being overnighted in Port of Spain. I found it a bit strange as the traffic to the city in POS is always bad so they win only probably 30 mins compared to overnighting the crew in the north of St Lucia where there are plenty of hotels and all is back to normal. Plus the crew are not v happy in POS - more expensive etc etc and I really was not impressed with the level of service/presence in the cabin. Both sets (UVF-POS/POS-LGW were pretty grumpy) not what you expect from Gatwick crew....
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Non of it does apart from the anti BA comment.
I'm sure we can confirm the accuracy of the situation
I'm sure we can confirm the accuracy of the situation
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Sorry if it doesn't make sense - the flight is normally direct it now goes through POS (Trinidad) which adds an extra 2.5 hrs.
I am not anti BA - use them quite often - but in this case was not impressed by either of the crews who flew us on the 2 sectors or the information available on the BA website/ from the crew on board as to why they are still operating like this and at the same time saying things are back to normal. I fly this route annually.
I am not anti BA - use them quite often - but in this case was not impressed by either of the crews who flew us on the 2 sectors or the information available on the BA website/ from the crew on board as to why they are still operating like this and at the same time saying things are back to normal. I fly this route annually.
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West Lakes - I believe you work for BA, so not exactly impartial.
Having checked Piton's comments about the schedule (using BA.com), it does seem to be fair comment pro tem.
As to the crews, you have to be there to judge.
Conclusion, 2.25 time saving is worthwhile, so thank you Piton for sharing your experience with the community.
Piton - take no notice of Abusing the Sky, she works for Ryanair, where customer service is pretty low down the priority scale, in fact 2 hours extra flying time = plenty of scratch card and bar sales, so she does not apparently understand the problem.
It is clear to me.
Thankfully, Ryanair don't fly big aeroplanes on grown up routes.
Having checked Piton's comments about the schedule (using BA.com), it does seem to be fair comment pro tem.
As to the crews, you have to be there to judge.
Conclusion, 2.25 time saving is worthwhile, so thank you Piton for sharing your experience with the community.
Piton - take no notice of Abusing the Sky, she works for Ryanair, where customer service is pretty low down the priority scale, in fact 2 hours extra flying time = plenty of scratch card and bar sales, so she does not apparently understand the problem.
It is clear to me.
Thankfully, Ryanair don't fly big aeroplanes on grown up routes.
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West Lakes - I believe you work for BA, so not exactly impartial.
(I will admit to having friends that do work at a number of airlines with BA possibly being one of them!)
I will concede that Piton's 2nd post makes the situation clearer
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I can't answer as to why ba.com has the wrong info. However, BA figured that it was better to nightstop the crew in POS instead of UVF. Why? Well, just after the hurricane hit, the north of St Lucia was inaccessible by road from the south. The roads between north and south are pretty grim even without the help of Tomas. Also, for clarification, we can't just move crew around from island to island, south to north. That's not how it works. There's also the issue with suitability and availability of hotels. There are other factors that are taken into account when choosing where to nightstop a crew, but I'm not at liberty to post that here.
Can I also "thank" you for giving the Pprune world info as to which hotel we stay in? It should've been enough to say we (normally) stay in the south of the island. Please bear in mind that our hotel in uvf currently doesn't have a roof on half of the hotel. No running water apart from sometimes a trickle of cold water. The poor VS crew have been put inthis hotel recently, bless them. It must be pretty grim.
I'm sorry you were unhappy with the crew. Without being there myself, I can't comment on your experience. Neither will I try to defend the crew's behaviour. Hopefully your next trip will be better.
Crew stopping in POS don't like it for mainly two reasons: they're used to AI in UVF, and have to pay for food/drink in POS hotel, which is expensive from what I've been told. Secondly, POS isn't exactly a safety haven. I believe crew have been adviced to not venture out very far from the hotel, especially after dark. I certainly wouldn't feel terribly safe going there, and I've been to some dodgy places in my time.
Hopefully, things will get back to normal asap. I know it's no consolation, but UVF used to be served via ANU not so long ago.
Can I also "thank" you for giving the Pprune world info as to which hotel we stay in? It should've been enough to say we (normally) stay in the south of the island. Please bear in mind that our hotel in uvf currently doesn't have a roof on half of the hotel. No running water apart from sometimes a trickle of cold water. The poor VS crew have been put inthis hotel recently, bless them. It must be pretty grim.
I'm sorry you were unhappy with the crew. Without being there myself, I can't comment on your experience. Neither will I try to defend the crew's behaviour. Hopefully your next trip will be better.
Crew stopping in POS don't like it for mainly two reasons: they're used to AI in UVF, and have to pay for food/drink in POS hotel, which is expensive from what I've been told. Secondly, POS isn't exactly a safety haven. I believe crew have been adviced to not venture out very far from the hotel, especially after dark. I certainly wouldn't feel terribly safe going there, and I've been to some dodgy places in my time.
Hopefully, things will get back to normal asap. I know it's no consolation, but UVF used to be served via ANU not so long ago.
Last edited by MIDLGW; 1st Dec 2010 at 22:44.
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Piton - take no notice of Abusing the Sky, she works for Ryanair, where customer service is pretty low down the priority scale, in fact 2 hours extra flying time = plenty of scratch card and bar sales, so she does not apparently understand the problem.
But if you do wish do make this personal, please note that i used to work for Ryanair. For many years, and i enjoyed most of them, albeit a few times/incedents, which i believe most of us (by that i mean myself and my fellow cabin crew colleagues) have gone through and disliked immensly.
The reason why i chose to leave Ryanair is on a need to know basis, and you don't need to know.
Having said that, please also note that your statement
in fact 2 hours extra flying time = plenty of scratch card and bar sales
While on the ground, crew are not allowed to open the bars (trolleys) due to Customs and Revenue restrictions (i believe it's to do with the fact that FR, like most airlines, are only allowed to trade whilst airborne)
Hope this clarifies your lack of knowledge about myself and/or my previous employer.
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Nominations for the 2010 Foot In Mouth Award - Jaw Dropping Section
and
The mind boggles!!
West Lakes - I believe you work for BA, so not exactly impartial.
Piton - take no notice of Abusing the Sky, she works for Ryanair, where customer service is pretty low down the priority scale, in fact 2 hours extra flying time = plenty of scratch card and bar sales, so she does not apparently understand the problem.
It is clear to me.
Thankfully, Ryanair don't fly big aeroplanes on grown up routes.
It is clear to me.
Thankfully, Ryanair don't fly big aeroplanes on grown up routes.
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ATS
You have given plenty of stick out on this forum, no reason why you cannot take some.
I couldn't care less why you loeft Ryanair, but do wish you well in whatever you are doing now and hope it works out for you.
CCC
You are expert in foot in mouth activities, so I am honoured you rate me up to your normal sytandards.
You have given plenty of stick out on this forum, no reason why you cannot take some.
I couldn't care less why you loeft Ryanair, but do wish you well in whatever you are doing now and hope it works out for you.
CCC
You are expert in foot in mouth activities, so I am honoured you rate me up to your normal sytandards.
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MIDLGW
I have removed the hotel name. I did mention the lack of water as a reason the hotel is not being used. The hotel has been repaired and wants to reopen as soon as water is available but that is not expected for some weeks if not the whole month. It is in fact closed to business (the Virgin crew are not staying there but in the north). In the north all hotels reopened with 2 weeks, water supply has been restored and some hotels have desalination plants anyway.
The road to the north is the same one all passengers as well as Virgin crew use. It has also been open the last 2 weeks with some bits single lane but we actually got down to the south in the usual driving time as it was a Sunday and there was little traffic. I'll give you that transfers would take longer than usual on weekdays but people who do not really need to are not making the trip so traffic is generally lighter than usual if I am to believe what friends say.
I fully understand why there was disruption in the first 2 weeks or so - the island was a mess. There was at that time a warning on the BA news page and BA even arranged small aircraft shuttle service to the airport in the north.My irritation came from the fact that BA then removes the warning notice but still operates the same way as they were a week after the hurricane.
The flight goes through POS on *both* the outward and return journey and as POS is south of St Lucia this all adds to the extra time. When they went through Antigua it was only on the outbound journey and Antigua is "on the way" to St Lucia.
The idea behind my suggestion of moving the crew to one of the other St Lucian hotels was that they would be in a better mood (due to IA at most of the hotels and the safer atmosphere in St Lucia) as I agree with you on the drawbacks of POS. Maybe some crew need to put the matter to the HOTAC dept that the 30 mins extra transfer time compared to POS would be offset by these factors. Or make a case for a higher per diem if not in an IA hotel.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post but I was annoyed as to how BA were treating both their pax and their crew.
I have removed the hotel name. I did mention the lack of water as a reason the hotel is not being used. The hotel has been repaired and wants to reopen as soon as water is available but that is not expected for some weeks if not the whole month. It is in fact closed to business (the Virgin crew are not staying there but in the north). In the north all hotels reopened with 2 weeks, water supply has been restored and some hotels have desalination plants anyway.
The road to the north is the same one all passengers as well as Virgin crew use. It has also been open the last 2 weeks with some bits single lane but we actually got down to the south in the usual driving time as it was a Sunday and there was little traffic. I'll give you that transfers would take longer than usual on weekdays but people who do not really need to are not making the trip so traffic is generally lighter than usual if I am to believe what friends say.
I fully understand why there was disruption in the first 2 weeks or so - the island was a mess. There was at that time a warning on the BA news page and BA even arranged small aircraft shuttle service to the airport in the north.My irritation came from the fact that BA then removes the warning notice but still operates the same way as they were a week after the hurricane.
The flight goes through POS on *both* the outward and return journey and as POS is south of St Lucia this all adds to the extra time. When they went through Antigua it was only on the outbound journey and Antigua is "on the way" to St Lucia.
The idea behind my suggestion of moving the crew to one of the other St Lucian hotels was that they would be in a better mood (due to IA at most of the hotels and the safer atmosphere in St Lucia) as I agree with you on the drawbacks of POS. Maybe some crew need to put the matter to the HOTAC dept that the 30 mins extra transfer time compared to POS would be offset by these factors. Or make a case for a higher per diem if not in an IA hotel.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post but I was annoyed as to how BA were treating both their pax and their crew.
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Piton,
I understand your frustration, but I must correct you on what you wrote re the UVF going through ANU. In those days, UVF was a shuttle from ANU and therefore stopped in ANU both ways. I did enough of those flights to remember.
In regards to transfers for crew from UVF to the north of the island: When we first started stopping in UVF, we stayed approx 15mins from Rodney Bay. The drive was often 2 hours each way. Having done a long flight, crew do get tired, and having such a long (and pretty scary) drive to be able to get to the hotel is not ideal. In those days, our trip length was 6 and 7 day trips, so we had a chance to have a clear day in the hotel. Nowadays, most of the UVF trips are 4 days with a shuttle. So, leaving LGW Monday morning (example only), arriving in UVF in the afternoon local time (approx 19.30z). Drive to Rodney Bay or Castries, approx 2 hours, arrival approx 22.30z (due to disembarkation, handing over to new crew, getting suitcases etc). Next day is shuttle day, so pick up would be around noon local for another 2 hour drive. Do shuttle to POS and repeat drive back to hotel. Next day, pick up around 1600 local, for drive back to UVF for the night flight home. Land at LGW on Thursday morning. Tiring? You bet!
As I've mentioned before, we cannot keep changing hotels back and forth. Hotels for crew have to be inspected, to make sure hygiene, safety etc are good enough. Due to bulk booking (we need a minimum of 24 rooms per night), it's not easy finding a suitable hotel. It's better to keep the crew in an alternative hotel until the original is back to normal. It might not make sense to anyone outside of the industry, but that's the way it is.
The crew you had on board should not let their displeasure about the situation interfere with the way customers are treated. I'm guessing they've been spoiled with the AI hotel in UVF and now resent having to pay for stuff. I do understand crew's worry about safety and security in POS, however as I just mentioned, this should NOT interfere with the customer service levels on board.
My informant on VS crew is obviously wrong, which in this instance I'm pleased about.
Things will get back to normal, it's just taking longer than we all want.
I understand your frustration, but I must correct you on what you wrote re the UVF going through ANU. In those days, UVF was a shuttle from ANU and therefore stopped in ANU both ways. I did enough of those flights to remember.
In regards to transfers for crew from UVF to the north of the island: When we first started stopping in UVF, we stayed approx 15mins from Rodney Bay. The drive was often 2 hours each way. Having done a long flight, crew do get tired, and having such a long (and pretty scary) drive to be able to get to the hotel is not ideal. In those days, our trip length was 6 and 7 day trips, so we had a chance to have a clear day in the hotel. Nowadays, most of the UVF trips are 4 days with a shuttle. So, leaving LGW Monday morning (example only), arriving in UVF in the afternoon local time (approx 19.30z). Drive to Rodney Bay or Castries, approx 2 hours, arrival approx 22.30z (due to disembarkation, handing over to new crew, getting suitcases etc). Next day is shuttle day, so pick up would be around noon local for another 2 hour drive. Do shuttle to POS and repeat drive back to hotel. Next day, pick up around 1600 local, for drive back to UVF for the night flight home. Land at LGW on Thursday morning. Tiring? You bet!
As I've mentioned before, we cannot keep changing hotels back and forth. Hotels for crew have to be inspected, to make sure hygiene, safety etc are good enough. Due to bulk booking (we need a minimum of 24 rooms per night), it's not easy finding a suitable hotel. It's better to keep the crew in an alternative hotel until the original is back to normal. It might not make sense to anyone outside of the industry, but that's the way it is.
The crew you had on board should not let their displeasure about the situation interfere with the way customers are treated. I'm guessing they've been spoiled with the AI hotel in UVF and now resent having to pay for stuff. I do understand crew's worry about safety and security in POS, however as I just mentioned, this should NOT interfere with the customer service levels on board.
My informant on VS crew is obviously wrong, which in this instance I'm pleased about.
Things will get back to normal, it's just taking longer than we all want.
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VS crew were put in the dump by the airport initially but have been moved about 10 minutes south of Rodney Bay.
You are right in saying that the journey is a total nightmare - especially if only on a night stop.
You are right in saying that the journey is a total nightmare - especially if only on a night stop.
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what future in "AIR CREW" hotel
If each carrier needs 24 rooms, then with 3 or 4 carriers, is there not a business model, for a exclusive crew hotel.
With all the traditional aspects covered, good food, free internet, interconnectiong doors, etc, etc.
glf
With all the traditional aspects covered, good food, free internet, interconnectiong doors, etc, etc.
glf
what future in "AIR CREW" hotel
It has been done before, in fact by BA. Crews into New York were basically segregated by airport of departure and aircraft type. Due to the shear number of beds required per night it was easier to take a single building and make it a crew hotel.
Also ANU in the 90's, moved from the Ramada to xxxxxxxxxx, this was when they were hubbing out of BGI and ANU.
It make good sense if the demand is there.
Also ANU in the 90's, moved from the Ramada to xxxxxxxxxx, this was when they were hubbing out of BGI and ANU.
It make good sense if the demand is there.
Last edited by Rescue3; 4th Dec 2010 at 15:15.
