BA77 delayed due to death
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What's the situation in regard to restrained prisoners if there's an emergency evacuation? It could be difficult for anyone handcuffed - especially if it was necessary to use an over-wing exit.
DIVOSH!
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re:
QUOTE:
Just a question: do deportees and prisoners are traveling handcuffed during the entire flight from boarding to deplaning?
Rwy in Sight
No, 99% of the time the cuffs are taken off once the aircraft is in the air and the detainee has calmed down. Usually after the seatbelt sign is turned off after takeoff. The officers don't hold grudges against detainess who have been violent/disruptive. Even ones who have verbally and physically abused officers (spitting, biting, kicking, punching, threats to officers/officers family etc), something which is quite common on these removals and deportations.
I believe the officers that carry out these removals are well trained and would've only used reasonable force, bearing in mind they are being watched by cabin crew and other passengers! Lets not forget the gentleman who sadly passed away had a prior conviction for assault.
Just a question: do deportees and prisoners are traveling handcuffed during the entire flight from boarding to deplaning?
Rwy in Sight
No, 99% of the time the cuffs are taken off once the aircraft is in the air and the detainee has calmed down. Usually after the seatbelt sign is turned off after takeoff. The officers don't hold grudges against detainess who have been violent/disruptive. Even ones who have verbally and physically abused officers (spitting, biting, kicking, punching, threats to officers/officers family etc), something which is quite common on these removals and deportations.
I believe the officers that carry out these removals are well trained and would've only used reasonable force, bearing in mind they are being watched by cabin crew and other passengers! Lets not forget the gentleman who sadly passed away had a prior conviction for assault.
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Maybe we could short circuit the process and not let them into the country in the first place.
You dont have to be a danger to the public or anyone else to be deported, you might arrive in country with all correct visas and paperwork, then for whatever reason overstay your visit, making you liable for deprtation.
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I think what the guy meant was stopping people entering the country illegally, i.e. at ferry ports on backs of lorries etc and having tighter regulations at visa issuing offices/embassies.
You would only be removed if you overstayed a visa, not deported, and if you agreed to return home voluntarily you wouldnt be escorted or anything, basically just asked to leave.
You would only be removed if you overstayed a visa, not deported, and if you agreed to return home voluntarily you wouldnt be escorted or anything, basically just asked to leave.
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re: BA77 delayed due to death
Dear Airpolice, Dangermouse 1977, TopBunk and others who are interested in this,
I have been following your discussions about this. I have been a member of PPRuNe for several years - I am a reporter with BBC Radio 4. I would very much like to chat to you off-line about what has happened and what has happened in the past.
Jon
[email protected]
I have been following your discussions about this. I have been a member of PPRuNe for several years - I am a reporter with BBC Radio 4. I would very much like to chat to you off-line about what has happened and what has happened in the past.
Jon
[email protected]
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Journalists:
The BBC,
There was a time, and I suppose I am showing my age here, when the BBC was a byword for accurate reporting and journalistic standards. Just like being a GPO trained telephonist, it meant something to have that training and environmental experience behind you.
Sadly, like RAF Scotland where we had at least 8 places to be posted, those days are all behind us now.
There is rarely a day that I don’t see or hear something from the BBC that makes me cringe. That, I think, would make a better topic for Radio 4. Shabby reporting, piss-poor grammar, and a lack of basic education being evident, all very sad to see in the once great BBC.
I’m not sure I have anything to add to this discussion on deportees and handling of them, apart from to say that the only time I had direct contact was years ago, when I had an adult male (allegedly “violent/escaper”) deportee in my custody at Glasgow Airport. I got him at about 17:30 and he went out on an 06:00 to bongo bongo land. I kept him handcuffed for the entire period that he was in my care. I used two sets of cuffs, him restrained and connected to me, and never at any time considered letting him loose.
He was pleasant enough and gave me no trouble, I suspect that was because I told him right at the start that I was not going to let him loose, regardless of what he said or did.
I left one set of handcuffs on him when I sat him in the front row of the aircraft and gave the keys to the guy going away with him. That guy was happy to not be connected while onboard, and that was his choice. I would have handcuffed the prisoner to the seat if I was travelling with him, but I suspect the Captain would have objected to that. Joe Public has no idea of how difficult it is to restrain a resisting person.
As for upsetting the pax, assuming the deportee is going out with a carrier who brought him in, then the airline have only themselves to blame. In the event of the deportee coming in through another route, the Airline need to decide whether or not they should carry him with pax.
Equally, passengers can decide to get off rather than be on an aircraft with a very unwilling passenger, because that's a recipie for things going bad. It would take three big guys to stop one man getting out of his seat and opening door in the upper air.
My main concern with all that has gone on recently, is that there is public money being spent to no great benefit.
There was a time, and I suppose I am showing my age here, when the BBC was a byword for accurate reporting and journalistic standards. Just like being a GPO trained telephonist, it meant something to have that training and environmental experience behind you.
Sadly, like RAF Scotland where we had at least 8 places to be posted, those days are all behind us now.
There is rarely a day that I don’t see or hear something from the BBC that makes me cringe. That, I think, would make a better topic for Radio 4. Shabby reporting, piss-poor grammar, and a lack of basic education being evident, all very sad to see in the once great BBC.
I’m not sure I have anything to add to this discussion on deportees and handling of them, apart from to say that the only time I had direct contact was years ago, when I had an adult male (allegedly “violent/escaper”) deportee in my custody at Glasgow Airport. I got him at about 17:30 and he went out on an 06:00 to bongo bongo land. I kept him handcuffed for the entire period that he was in my care. I used two sets of cuffs, him restrained and connected to me, and never at any time considered letting him loose.
He was pleasant enough and gave me no trouble, I suspect that was because I told him right at the start that I was not going to let him loose, regardless of what he said or did.
I left one set of handcuffs on him when I sat him in the front row of the aircraft and gave the keys to the guy going away with him. That guy was happy to not be connected while onboard, and that was his choice. I would have handcuffed the prisoner to the seat if I was travelling with him, but I suspect the Captain would have objected to that. Joe Public has no idea of how difficult it is to restrain a resisting person.
As for upsetting the pax, assuming the deportee is going out with a carrier who brought him in, then the airline have only themselves to blame. In the event of the deportee coming in through another route, the Airline need to decide whether or not they should carry him with pax.
Equally, passengers can decide to get off rather than be on an aircraft with a very unwilling passenger, because that's a recipie for things going bad. It would take three big guys to stop one man getting out of his seat and opening door in the upper air.
My main concern with all that has gone on recently, is that there is public money being spent to no great benefit.
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It would take three big guys to stop one man getting out of his seat and opening door in the upper air.
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Originally Posted by airpolice
There is rarely a day that I don’t see or hear something from the BBC that makes me cringe...I’m not sure I have anything to add to this discussion on deportees and handling of them, apart from to say that... he went out on an 06:00 to bongo bongo land.
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Manel
I am sorry but while I stand by what I say as a precis of the events, I am not prepared to give further details that could identify any further the locations, timing and people involved nor give myself any possible grief/comeback.
I am sorry but while I stand by what I say as a precis of the events, I am not prepared to give further details that could identify any further the locations, timing and people involved nor give myself any possible grief/comeback.
A deportee handcuffed to a seat could very well end up dead in the event of a crash. If the accompanying officer got out alive, I suspect he would well end up in a degree of trouble. Handcuffed to the seat, I doubt one could even get into the 'brace' position.
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He told me that it was fear, of what was going to happen to them when they got to their destination, that caused them to fight so hard. Many countries lock deportees up and treat them badly when they arrive back home.
I have little or no sympathy for depos, for we have the most relaxed immigration policy of any developed country on earth, and only those who really don't need or deserve to be accepted will be sent packing.
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The BBC
Rusland,
My objection to the way the BBC is operating is not about the "Liberal Tone" as you describe it.
I object to the Licence Fee which I am obliged to pay, even if I made no use of the services of the BBC, being used to pay for a crap service.
Have a read through the online news pages and you will see evidence that there is little in the way of error checking for either typos or factual cock-ups.
I notice that there has been no further input form the BBC man on this point.
My objection to the way the BBC is operating is not about the "Liberal Tone" as you describe it.
I object to the Licence Fee which I am obliged to pay, even if I made no use of the services of the BBC, being used to pay for a crap service.
Have a read through the online news pages and you will see evidence that there is little in the way of error checking for either typos or factual cock-ups.
I notice that there has been no further input form the BBC man on this point.
I don't pay for a TV Licence, but then, I haven't got a TV. All their letters go in the bin - I'm damned if I'll spend MY money calling them or putting a stamp on a letter, or spending time on replying to them anyway. Unless they pay me at my consultancy rate......
So I suppose I can't complain about them.
So I suppose I can't complain about them.
