BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

[PaddyMiguel]

Litebulbs

Would I leave Unite to join an association like the PCCC? Not a chance. The funding and support that Unite offer me and the people I work with, will not be matched by a free association

The BASSA Branch Secretary has been widely blamed for this dispute. He has been painted as some sort of messianic demi-god whose rhetoric and oratory skills have lead his adoring, unthinking followers to the abyss. However, those who know him will agree that if his IQ was as big as his ego he would have outsmarted BA and negotiated a tremendous deal for crew whilst producing the cost savings required. His incoherent newsletters are hardly inspirational or revolutionary and those who have heard him address an audience realise he is no Churchill. The PCCC are being hailed as the new broom that will sweep BASSA away.
What will remain however, are the 5751 crew who voted ‘Yes’.
I flew to South America over the festive season and was looked after by a truly excellent steward. He was warm and friendly, personable, efficient, humorous and charming, not just to my wife and I but to the rest of the passengers in the cabin. He told me quite candidly that he had voted for the strikes and would vote ‘Yes’ again. However, he would not go on strike as he couldn’t afford to lose his ST as he commuted from France. Nonetheless, he spent his days off on the picket line to show solidarity with his colleagues. His arguments for strike action are eerily similar to ‘Crewfriend’ who posts on the other thread.

Good solid BASSA comrades by the sound of it. We will once again stand shoulder to shoulder on the picket lines and at the glorious days at Bedfont.
Unless you were there to share the camaraderie you will not understand.
The sooner BA realise that they have to consult BASSA over such things the better for everyone.
BA cannot survive without BASSA and we will prevail.
I am proud to say I was diverted last week and I insisted (and got) my two local nights as per our agreement. The passengers just had to suffer it but that's not my fault it's theirs for not asking BASSA for the DA and abusing it last time.
The Workers will prevail and I repeat that will be good for everyone even disgraceful embittered VCC flightdeck.
I appreciate different jobs demand different salaries but share in profits should be equal for every employee from the CEO to the lowest paid.
Unite did make a mistake by saying we would get the offer. BASSA stepped in and rightly stopped it as it was insulting.
I have my doubts over Unite but not BASSA.
BASSA only tells its members the truth.
When the persecutors have been defeated we will all be better off as workers. We should all unite as one and move forward together, taking the lead from BASSA.
I only know what BASSA tell me and I believe that 100%.
A strong result will see 10000 wonderful people withdrawing their labour, and maybe even more.
The new CEO will be forced to back down and we will have our 4 points and the hat wearing fleet will be no more.
But what we’ve seen is a systematic attack on our Union by Union Busters and the victimisation of innocent comrades. Sacked for having a coffee? What would you lot do if that was one of yours? We have no choice but to continue fighting and mark my words we will, even though it hurts us to do so.
All we want is the 4 points and New Fleet disbanded. We will even accept the imposition of one down.
Is that such a big ask?
Not just in BA but all over Europe the workers are rising.
Many of you are in for a shock. BASSA will deliver a strong ballot and strike and bring BA to its knees again.
Stand by and watch our friends sacked and suspended for trivial matters?
Watch New Fleet take over our jobs?
Have our staff travel removed for taking legal and justified action?
Our time is near. BA are running out of it.

He told me he never reads anything from BA, considers he does not have a manager, regards ‘the office’ as somewhere you have to go when you are in trouble and spends as little time in CRC as possible. He comes to work, does a good job and flies home immediately afterwards. How do you manage an employee like that when he’s 7 miles above the earth and you’re in your office at Waterside? He is not part of an absentee workforce; it's his management that's absent. There are many inspirational, charismatic, competent CSDs who would regard this guy as a model crew member.

What will the PCCC have to do to tempt him and his 'good solid comrades' away from BASSA?

[Litebulbs]

call100

Will one of the founder members of PCCC be an official of the union, or a representative of the union? In my experience, when things get to be a bit spicy, you get the FTO involved. That way, there is no potential recriminations against an employee. If this set up gains momentum, it will only be employees who are both officers and reps.

This goes back to my question, what is a union and where does the PCCC sit within current legislation?

I suppose all it takes is a partner of an employee to take the General Secretary role....

[Litebulbs]

Paddy

I would not suggest any ideas to tempt a member of my union, to leave and join another one.

I personally thing that it would have been better for the PCCC to be a movement within Bassa. All the facilities to negotiate are currently in place. If the individuals who set up the PCCC were willing to stand, then the change would have come from within, IF their fellow workers wanted the change of direction, but 6000 don't seem to see it that way.

Those that have left and accepted the new contract, are accepting a deal negotiated by Unite at the highest level.

However, I am still nervous on the direction of my union under its new leadership. I still could be making a choice between the trade union movement/service provider.

p.s. I still am impressed with the PCCC however. It must have taken a huge amount of time and effort to get where it is today.

[PaddyMiguel]

PCCC within BASSA

Point well made, Litebulbs.
However, even if the PCCC were able to have themselves elected to the leadership of BASSA, perhaps on a ticket of providing their members with a service there would still be those BASSAites like 'Crewfriend' who see the function of their union as a stick with which to beat their employer.

[Diplome]

Litebulbs:

I agree that it would been a good thing for a movement such as PCCC to function within BASSA. Unfortunately the leadership of BASSA make that impossible. Mr. Holley's commentary on the BASSA forum seems to allow no dissent with some serious repurcussions for challenging him openly.

Comments on the CC thread seem to indicate that we will soon see the "face" of the PCCC. I'm sure that they realize that their chance of success will require more than just the website.

Like you I'm impressed with what they have accomplished. It seems that while I was assuming they were simply inactive they have been busy behind the scenes. Well done them.

[Litebulbs]

Paddy

You could equally say Bassa is a buffer from an employers strong arm tactics.

To me it is still about the fact that as a rep you are an employee first. However, as you move more into the day to day running of a branch, you will definitely have two hats.

[411A]

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

I don't have any questions.
IF the cabin crew desire to make complete fools of themselves by walking out, it's no skin off my nose.
It would appear that some BA cabin crew have lost sight of the fact that times are tough in the airline industry, and airline companies need to make healthy profits to make up for the hefty losses experienced from time to time.

BA will survive, with or without their malcontent cabin crew...I fully expect without.

Who will mostly benefit?
Other airlines.

[PaddyMiguel]

Two Hats

Originally Posted by Litebulbs

You could equally say Bassa is a buffer from an employers strong arm tactics.

To me it is still about the fact that as a rep you are an employee first. However, as you move more into the day to day running of a branch, you will definitely have two hats.

Well, if the PCCC have people like some of the reasonable crew who post on here then there is every hope that PCCC/BASSA/Unite will work together and alongside BA to achieve a profitable, well-managed, customer focused airline at last. Worker representation at board level would be a good start.......as long as you don't have to wear a hat in the board room, that is...

[Litebulbs]

Take cover 411A has entered the room, with his centre left views

[Neptunus Rex]

Worker representation at board level would be a good start

Yer avin' a laugh!

As if any responsible Board of Directors is going to discuss commercially confidential business in the presence of a 'worker' who could not read a balance sheet, is going to report back to the likes of DH and McClunky, then have the proceedings spun beyond belief in the meeja to the amusement and gain of Beardie et al.

Get real!

[VCC]

Is there any news from the BASSA camp yet as it seams they have gone all quiet.

Is it 7 or 28 days that they need to advise BA of their first strike dates.

[Mariner9]

They have 28 days in which to announce strike dates VCC, so plenty of time for them yet. Its in Duncan's interests to string this saga along for as long as possible, and the later they leave it, the warmer it'll be at Bedfont*

*A thought has just occured to me - won't Bedfont FC actually need use of their pitch during the football season?

[SwissRef]

Question for those that know:

In a protected strike, is the 12 week period from the strike ballot result, or from when the strikes are announced?

Or to phrase it another way - is the protected period (if the strike is protected) already running, and so by waiting, are they reducing the period they can actually strike for?

Taken to extreme (if this were the case) - call the strike after 28 days(4 weeks), and give the 1 week notice, means you reduce the protected period to 7 weeks. Is this the case? In which case, it isn't in the unions interest to wait, as they reduce the length and impact of any strike.

Of course if it is from the announcement of the strikes, then it makes sense to wait, as you disrupt BA bookings for 5 weeks + 12 weeks.

[Hotel Mode]

The action must start in 28 days.

They must announce 7 days before so must be announced by Friday fortnight (21days from ballot)

The protected period starts from first strike.

BA will almost certainly say there isnt a protected period as its a continuation of the existing dispute. BA probably wont announce their intentions until after strike dates are announced. Unite may want to take this to court before any strike, so the longer they leave it the greater the risk of the ballot timing out.

[gr8tballsoffire]

On the other forum there is debate whether PCCC reps/officers should be paid.

I was a rep in the old Apex union in the eighties for almost seven years and along with three colleagues were never paid for any work/time spent on union business. It didn't even occur to us to expect it.. We all took on the role, because we wanted to represent the views of our colleagues (not always the same as our own) to the best of our ability. BA gave us a limited amount of time for union business even when we were in dispute, however much of the time was during our days off.

It seems extraordinary to me that the BASSA hierarchy could be creaming off a percentage of their colleagues subs to line their own pockets. That is NOT what unionism should be about. It is not unreasonable for them to claim out of pocket expenses and for the full time Unite officials to be paid a decent salary, but to me the role of the lay rep should be on a purely voluntary unremunirated basis. I hope that the PCCC reps will take the same view.

Litebulbs, I would be particularly interested in your views on this.

[call100]

Originally Posted by Neptunus Rex

Yer avin' a laugh!

As if any responsible Board of Directors is going to discuss commercially confidential business in the presence of a 'worker' who could not read a balance sheet, is going to report back to the likes of DH and McClunky, then have the proceedings spun beyond belief in the meeja to the amusement and gain of Beardie et al.

Get real!

Of course your post shows how much above that 'worker' you float. It actually shows your total ignorance of the level of partnership working there is and the level of education of a lot of reps.
No doubt you will carry on in your misguided irrelevant beliefs, however, now you can't claim you didn't know....

[call100]

Originally Posted by gr8tballsoffire

On the other forum there is debate whether PCCC reps/officers should be paid.

I was a rep in the old Apex union in the eighties for almost seven years and along with three colleagues were never paid for any work/time spent on union business. It didn't even occur to us to expect it.. We all took on the role, because we wanted to represent the views of our colleagues (not always the same as our own) to the best of our ability. BA gave us a limited amount of time for union business even when we were in dispute, however much of the time was during our days off.

It seems extraordinary to me that the BASSA hierarchy could be creaming off a percentage of their colleagues subs to line their own pockets. That is NOT what unionism should be about. It is not unreasonable for them to claim out of pocket expenses and for the full time Unite officials to be paid a decent salary, but to me the role of the lay rep should be on a purely voluntary unremunirated basis. I hope that the PCCC reps will take the same view.

Litebulbs, I would be particularly interested in your views on this.

Completely agree with your post. In 33 years of representing people I never got paid. Working on shifts often meant that everything was on your days off.
Expenses were even something I only claimed when travelling nationally.
I've never quite believed the BASSA 'pay scale' for it's officials. I certainly don't agree with it if it's true....The PCCC should certainly not pay any reps in my view.

[Litebulbs]

gr8tballsoffire

Do I think reps should be paid? Hmm, I would love to be. I claim payment if I have a meeting on a day off, if it is a company called meeting. Union business, never. My company foot the bill for travel for their meetings and my union do, if it is theirs.

However, if you start paying reps, you get reps who may be in it for the buck, rather than the role. You would also loose all credibility. I probably do more unpaid work than anybody else in my company (as I am not employed as a rep so the home hours put in are not because of my employed role), but that is my choice. I also can be voted out every two years.

So, no, I don't think you should be paid for the role of a rep, but I do think you should be paid for working a day off.

EDIT - Apology for the bit in red, right up my own bot bot and disrespectful to all that work in their own time.

[Chuchinchow]

He has been painted as some sort of messianic demi-god whose rhetoric and oratory skills have lead his adoring, unthinking followers to the abyss.

'E's not a "messianic demi-god"; 'e's a very naughty shop steward!


[A 'demagogue', perhaps?]

[MPN11]

Very good, CCC